Small Towns around Detroit

[MikeM]

Ribbon Farm Appreciation thread:
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1180288955

[jcole]

This is an 1876 map of the area on Gratiot that the mystery house is located in. The yellow lines are Gratiot and Base Line. The area I circled in blue is approx. where that house sits. The area is marked as the Bringard Farm.
Attachment 6096

[Hermod]

Hermod, here's a bit bigger and older look at those ribbon farms in Grosse Pte. Twp. that you mention above
Attachment 6095
The yellow line would be Kelly Rd and the red one approximates 7 Mile. The [[squiggly) blue would be Morang. The map is 1876

I always wondered why 7 and 8 mile suddenly turned and went southeast instead of due east. I grew up two blocks south [[actually southwest) of Morang.

[Brock7]

Here's the full Grosse Point Township plat map, though it's not as easy to make out as the section provided by jcole:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text...rameset;seq=13

From "Illustrated historical atlas of the county of Wayne, Michigan" 1876.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text...28152.0001.001

[FerndaleDamon]

Boy[[or girl), you guys don't f*** around. Maybe that house is part of the Bringard family. That one map goes back to 1876. Maybe the house was built in the 1880's-1890's, by the look of it?

[littlebuddy]

I see a burg on the map from Brock7 named Eloise, is that the place where they had the mental hospital?

[wilderness]

I see a burg on the map from Brock7 named Eloise, is that the place where they had the mental hospital?

Eloise Hospital was located on the Northeast Corner of Michigan Ave and Merriman. The property extended east to the railroad tracks just west of Henry Ruff Road and may have included that property also at one time. Last time I paid attention while driving past Michigan & Merriman portions of Eloise still existed.

[Big Dog]

MikeM, I grew up around 8 mile/VanDyke.When you crossed 8 mile, you were in Baseline, MI. I lived in Detroit, but went and walked to, Ascension School, in Baseline MI.. It was 4 or 5 blocks north of 8/van, and 2 or 3 blocks, east of van dyke. Went there until 1954, I think it was still Baseline. MI. then.

[Brock7]

Boy[[or girl), you guys don't f*** around. Maybe that house is part of the Bringard family. That one map goes back to 1876. Maybe the house was built in the 1880's-1890's, by the look of it?

If Xavier Bringard built the house I think it would have to be before 1879 and likely not much earlier than 1859. He was married at Assumption church at 6½ & Gratiot January 25 1859. By 1879 his wife and children are living in Detroit a little east of Michigan & W. Grand Blvd and he's headed to Jackson prison [[where he shows up on the 1880 census) for embezzling a large sum as treasurer of Grosse Point Township. Some of his property was seized by the sherriff and sold off for $900 to recover the funds. I don't know if this could have included the house or land.

Joseph Bringard [[owner of the adjacent land, who I assume going by the ages is Xavier's brother) and his family aren't listed in the 1880 census though they appear in the one for 1870 and before that in 1863 he's listed in the Detroit City directory as running a saloon at 224 Gratiot. It makes me wonder if he's the one who actually took the money and absconded maybe to Canada or even back to France.

I don't think they ever lived in that house again. Xavier is listed in Detroit directories of 1885 and 1887 as a night watchman for a lumber company on Jefferson downtown and living in the same area as his wife was in 1879. The last listing I could easily find was in the 1895 directory and has him as a fireman and still living in the same area. His wife died in 1899 in Detroit.

It looks like the guy I knew in the 80's was still living in the house when he died in 2003. According to MikeM's post his family had been in that house only from about 1949. I suspect the reason there is no tax bill listed is because the city must own the property now.

[Hermod]

There was a interurban line that connect from Toledo to Dearborn River Rouge Plant. It was called the G.T.W. Railroad. The 'Pullman' rail car trolly was controlled a electric line holding up by pre-Gothic styled concrete and metal utility poles. You can all check it out from Allen Park to Taylor.

Danny: That line was not an "interurban" which was defined as an electric passenger railroad moving passengers between towns.

That line was the Ford Company's electrification of the Detroit, Toledo, and Ironton branch from Flat Rock to the Ford Plant. Steam locomotives were fire hazards around industrial facilities, so Ford electrified the line [[DT&I was owned by Ford at the time).

Ford also bought some early GE diesel switchers which had Ford-styled sheet metal.

[Detroitnerd]

Danny: That line was not an "interurban" which was defined as an electric passenger railroad moving passengers between towns.

That line was the Ford Company's electrification of the Detroit, Toledo, and Ironton branch from Flat Rock to the Ford Plant. Steam locomotives were fire hazards around industrial facilities, so Ford electrified the line [[DT&I was owned by Ford at the time).

Ford also bought some early GE diesel switchers which had Ford-styled sheet metal.

I have a picture at home on my wall of one of the electric trains, and all those beautiful concrete wire supports. I heard it never worked, though. Somebody told me years ago that Ford would have brownouts at Rouge when they tried to run the train, and they went diesel instead.

[Danny]

Danny: That line was not an "interurban" which was defined as an electric passenger railroad moving passengers between towns.

That line was the Ford Company's electrification of the Detroit, Toledo, and Ironton branch from Flat Rock to the Ford Plant. Steam locomotives were fire hazards around industrial facilities, so Ford electrified the line [[DT&I was owned by Ford at the time).

Ford also bought some early GE diesel switchers which had Ford-styled sheet metal.

What do the Ironton electric transit lines used for? Hopefully is was not use to haul car parts.

[Hermod]

What do the Ironton electric transit lines used for? Hopefully is was not use to haul car parts.

Precisely what it was for. Materials in and finished products out of the Ford factory.

[Hermod]

I have a picture at home on my wall of one of the electric trains, and all those beautiful concrete wire supports. I heard it never worked, though. Somebody told me years ago that Ford would have brownouts at Rouge when they tried to run the train, and they went diesel instead.

It worked. Electric locomotive technology was pretty mature by 1925. The switch to diesel was because of the cost of upkeep of the overhead wire, a cost which also contributed to the marginal or non-profitability of electric interurbans and street cars.

[Hermod]

Wiki history of the DT&I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit...onton_Railroad

Speaks to the electrification, but not in much detail.

[Detroitnerd]

It worked. Electric locomotive technology was pretty mature by 1925. The switch to diesel was because of the cost of upkeep of the overhead wire, a cost which also contributed to the marginal or non-profitability of electric interurbans and street cars.

Thanks, Hermod. Point taken, although the main causative factor for making interurbans and streetcars unprofitable was the government-sponsored option of road-building for private autos and buses, which traction companies couldn't compete with. [[You know, "socialism.")

[Hermod]

Thanks, Hermod. Point taken, although the main causative factor for making interurbans and streetcars unprofitable was the government-sponsored option of road-building for private autos and buses, which traction companies couldn't compete with. [[You know, "socialism.")

Even before there was wide spread road building, the interurbans were not really profitable. Read "The Electric Interuban in America" by Hilton and Due for a good picture of interuban economics. The interubans took the most unprofitable business [[short haul passengers and LCL freight) away from the railroads. The biggest blow to the streetcars and interurbans was the dramatic increase in labor costs after World War I.

[Hermod]

FYI Drayton Plains is gone since the new zip code change, but what in the world was Eames, I have been out in the Waterford area since the 50's and can't recall that city, Any one else remember, also note Lake Orion is only Orion on this map. There are a few others on there that I can't recall. Love looking at old maps. Thanks

Lake Orion [[the lake) was named after Orion Township. Orion was a town on the railroad. Later as a tourist draw, they changed the name to Lake Orion. The old railroad schedules show the name as Orion.

The Ponitiac, Oxford, & Port Austin Railroad was established to serve the thumb from Pontiac. By the time it got to Bad Axe, the Port Huron & Northwestern had built to Port Austin, so the PO&PA changed its name to the Pontiac, Oxford, & Northern. They then branched off their track and built to Caseville on the lake. The PO&N [[later part of the GTW) went as follows:

Pontiac
Eames [[spur to the Lake Orion GM Plant)
Randall Beach
Oxford [[junction Michigan Central Detroit to Mackinac line)
Shoupe
Leonard
Dryden
Imlay City [[junction GTW Port Huron to Chicago line)
Lum
Kings Mill
North Branch
Clifford [[junction Pere Marquette Port Huron to Ludington line)
Kingston
Wilmot
Deford
Cass City [[branch to Bad Axe)
Gagetown
Owendale [[junction MC branch)
Linkville
Pigeon [[junction Saginaw, Tuscola, and Huron later PM)
Caseville

Although passenger trains ended in the depression, the PO&N offered mixed train service into the fifties. The line was abandoned in the seventies except for the Pontiac-Eames-GM plant portion.



Caseville

[Steve]

I want to thank everyone who contributed to this excellent thread.

[Hermod]

Eames:

Eames was at the junction of Joslyn Road and Silver Bell Road in Orion Township, Oakland County. There is a Sunoco station with a convenience store there which was probably the site of the original PO&N station.

[Brock7]

Attachment 6070

Sanborn, vol 22, 1933, sheet 2333

Address looks to be 15142 Gratiot. This was the earliest map that I could find the house on. Earlier volumes don't cover that area of Gratiot, at least none that I could find.

What would the "A" stand for on that little structure south of the house?

Are there any buildings shown on the other side of Gratiot between Eastburn and Bringard? I was looking at a Polk Directory from 1928 and the only thing listed between those streets is DeGrandebent Barbers without a number address.

[Hornwrecker]

What would the "A" stand for on that little structure south of the house?

A is listed as being a private garage. A= auto, I guess. {Had to look that one up.}

[Jimaz]

... when the small towns, villages were distinct and seperate from other towns, villages but now are just a part of metro Detroit in that there seem to be no borders that divide them?

A few years ago I was doing some research in the Utica library, scanning through their old phone books. Utica [[and so their phone book) was small enough that you can scan the whole book manually without too much difficulty.

I was surprised that these books listed Warren as a subordinate suburb of Utica rather than of Detroit. So not only was Utica distinct and separate but it was also apparently considered a hub at one time. Today it seems to me more like Utica is subordinate to Warren which is subordinate to Detroit although Detroit may be becoming a "hollow" hub.

It's an illustration of how distinct population concentrations can morph into homogeneity over time. It's interesting to consider that the hollowing of the Detroit hub could represent the beginning of homogeneity morphing back into distinct population concentrations. Symmetry!

It's as if at some point figure and ground can reverse roles.

[Jimaz]

Japanese Addresses must be what set me onto this figure/ground role reversal path.

[Mikeg]

I was surprised that these books listed Warren as a subordinate suburb of Utica rather than of Detroit.

Utica became a village in 1838 and prospered because of it's elevated location near the Clinton River, the Clinton-Kalamazoo Canal and the railroad which connected it to Detroit. The old Utica telephone book was most likely listing the other villages in the vicinity which had their own telephone exchanges installed beginning in the late 1920s. The Warren listing would have been for the one square mile community of that name which was located at the intersection of Mound and Chicago Roads and which became a village in 1893. The 34 square miles of Warren as we know it today became a city in 1957 when it incorporated both the village and township of Warren.