MJ in the D, legalization may be on november ballot

**JimminyCricket** · June-23-10, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by Alex Martin

You don't like the DEA? I get it. I'll be voting against legalizing weed. I think the DEA got their facts straight. Illegal dope is bad for everybody. And I'm tellin' you. Nobody's gonna make any money off this. Big business will just avoid paying taxes like they already do.

You're right. Illegal dope is bad for everybody, BECAUSE it's illegal. That's why it needs to be legalized.

DetroitDad · June-23-10, 01:03 AM

By legalizing some things that are only destructive to the user, you may free up resources to solve other problems, or turning enforcement and punishment money into prevention money. This is a big issue in Detroit and Michigan, of which both have high crime rates and prison populations.

This could lead to better police response time for us. Who cares if other agencies haven't caught on yet? This saves Detroit resources.

**JimminyCricket** · June-23-10, 01:11 AM

I've been to Amsterdam three times, and I can assure you it is not decaying. In fact it's healthier than any major American city.

DetroitDad · June-23-10, 01:30 AM

And Here's Why;

Contrary to what Alex say below...

27,900 persons in state and federal prison serving a sentence for which a marijuana violation is the controlling [[or most serious) offense.[1] This translates to a national estimated loss of more than $600 million per year.[2]
One in four of people in prison for a marijuana offense can be classified as a low-level offender.
There are more than 75,000 people under supervision for marijuana violations. In addition, there are an unknown number of persons in prison due to a probation or parole violation for a non-marijuana offense who have had their supervision revoked after testing positive for marijuana.

Originally Posted by Alex Martin

More people on dope. Is that what you want? I heard some dope fiend say the cops would be freed up to deal with "more important" crimes. Oh yeah? What about all the other drugs that would still be illegal? The local dope dealer ain't gonna stop selling crack. I doubt the rest are gonna spend their time picking up empty soda pop cans to get by.

Don't fall for it.

Alex

Demand for marijuana is higher than demand for any other drug.

**Russix** · June-23-10, 01:44 AM

You also eliminate a huge subsidy for drug dealers by allowing users to grow their own personal stash.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-23-10, 03:20 AM

Someone can justify all possible human activity. Maybe lots of businesses are just waiting to know that the city is officially full of potheads before opening in the city and hiring the stoners for high-paying jobs! Faster police response times? Well, it only seems fair that the cops can smoke pot, too. High prison populations? They will be higher with "legal" pot. Why? There will be more crime all around. Maybe not jailed for pot, but jailed for theft, robbery, vehicular homicide, etc... All any city needs to be blissful and prosperous is pot. Not tax cuts, more cops, or school choice. POT. POT FIXES EVERYTHING! Why, you can even eat it. There will be no more hunger! Being stoned makes you forget the city can't get the snow plowed, create a private sector job without massive subsidy, keep the potholes filled, etc.

This referendum is an attempt to justify terrible personal behavior. Behavior that has many negative ramifications for the city and society. But I suppose a personal need to feel that you are not a criminal deviant okays slitting the already bleeding wrists of the city.

If this passes, it proves to the world that Detroit is what it appears to be. A decaying city for decaying citizens. I truly hope the people stand up and declare that they are not as stupid and self-destructive as everyone thinks they are. I am moving back shortly, but will gladly turn back around and leave if this passes. I've always had hope for my hometown, in spite of everything. It now dawns on me that I have been a fool. The destructive behavior of the government is truly representing the people. New Motto: DETROIT 2010: CONTENT TO DIE, AS LONG AS WE HAVE WEED.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-23-10, 03:29 AM

Too bad that the ministers sold their souls to support the casinos. Once upon a time, they would have said that the lawbreaking is the problem, not the law. Unfortunately, Detroit's religious community no longer seriously challenges its congregations to improve their own lives. Instead, it will hold the hands of the druggies, not rail at them to straighten up and fly right.

DETROIT 2020: population 250,000.
DETROIT 2020: private sector workforce: 250
DETROIT 2020: high school graduation rate: what's high school?
DETROIT 2020: mayor: state-appointed administrative control board.

**Meddle** · June-23-10, 04:55 AM

The 'religious community' can go piss up a rope. If you're part of a church, fine. Good for you and yours. Practice your faith as you wish and be the best you can be. But keep it to yourself. Don't try to force your values on others. Religious zealots are one of the biggest problems in history.

If you have a legitimate opposition to a law or proposition, vote against it.

------------------

Didn't Ann Arbor do this in the 70s? Dropped the fine to $5 for personal use possession with no aggressive enforcement?

**Meddle** · June-23-10, 05:00 AM

I've never been a user, but I've always felt the governments have wasted far too much money on this for what little effect there is. Usage has grown every year despite increased abatement budgets. The figures just don't work out.

Treat it the same way as alcohol and tobacco. Tax it and regulate it for import and sales. Let users grow their own for personal use. Let the States make some money off of it. Might help to solve the states' budget woes.

**jcole** · June-23-10, 08:03 AM

Legalize it all, tax the shit out of it and you'll probably have less people using it than you do now.
It would still be illegal for minors though, the same way booze is, so they would still be hanging around outside the store trying to get an adult to buy for them.

**Sstashmoo** · June-23-10, 08:59 AM

Quote: "legalizing some things that are only destructive to the user,"

You are aware of situation going on along our border now? It's happening because people partake in an activity "that doesn't hurt anyone". These proposed legalizations, are just symptoms of a city out of control. Answer to Detroit's crime problem - legalize everything.

**Sstashmoo** · June-23-10, 09:03 AM

Quote: "high crime rates and prison populations."

The prison population is a lie used by the legalize crowd. Very few people are sitting in Prison because of pot alone.

**maxx** · June-23-10, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Didn't Ann Arbor do this in the 70s? Dropped the fine to $5 for personal use possession with no aggressive enforcement?

Yes, and noooobody wants to do business there with all those potheads.

**maxx** · June-23-10, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "legalizing some things that are only destructive to the user,"

You are aware of situation going on along our border now? It's happening because people partake in an activity "that doesn't hurt anyone".

If people could grow their own pot, there would be less drug activity, at least involving pot, at the border. Cause and effect.
If the US would stop dumping cheap corn on the Mexican market, fewer farmers would be out of work and seeking employment in other fields. Cause and effect.

**Meddle** · June-23-10, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

You are aware of situation going on along our border now? It's happening because people partake in an activity "that doesn't hurt anyone".

No, it's happening because the cartels are filling a need that people can't fill legally. Legalize personal use and the Cartel will take a major cash hit.

Of course they'll just switch to other product.

I truly believe that some of the opposition to legalization is being funded by the Cartels who don't want to take that loss to their business.

**Detroitnerd** · June-23-10, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

You are aware of situation going on along our border now? It's happening because people partake in an activity "that doesn't hurt anyone". These proposed legalizations, are just symptoms of a city out of control. Answer to Detroit's crime problem - legalize everything.

Do you know why there's so much violence on the border? It's because the U.S. government successfully urged the Mexican government to militarize their enforcement against drug cartels. So the drugs cartels armed themselves too and now both sides are shooting it out.

If you legalize it, you remove the militarization, you remove the cartels and you are left with a profitable, legal business that can produce tax revenue, as opposed to more enforcement costs.

Think about it. Legalizing marijuana means that's almost 900,000 arrests a year never have to happen. It means that you're freeing up the courts and the jails for the real criminals. And when you take individual dealers out of the market and have dispensaries, stores, what have you, it will no longer be easier for kids to get pot than beer.

But, whatever, this Drug War has been a huge success. Let's just keep the same strategy we've had since Nixon. The tide is sure to turn any day now ...

**drjeff** · June-23-10, 10:19 AM

The DPD has better things to do than arresting people for smoking a joint. Or even for growing their own. If you really think busting people for drugs is more important than preventing car break-ins, scrapping, and all the other things the DPD currently doesn't do anything about, you are a friggin moron.

ferntruth · June-23-10, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Someone can justify all possible human activity. Maybe lots of businesses are just waiting to know that the city is officially full of potheads before opening in the city and hiring the stoners for high-paying jobs! Faster police response times? Well, it only seems fair that the cops can smoke pot, too. High prison populations? They will be higher with "legal" pot. Why? There will be more crime all around. Maybe not jailed for pot, but jailed for theft, robbery, vehicular homicide, etc... All any city needs to be blissful and prosperous is pot. Not tax cuts, more cops, or school choice. POT. POT FIXES EVERYTHING! Why, you can even eat it. There will be no more hunger! Being stoned makes you forget the city can't get the snow plowed, create a private sector job without massive subsidy, keep the potholes filled, etc.

This referendum is an attempt to justify terrible personal behavior. Behavior that has many negative ramifications for the city and society. But I suppose a personal need to feel that you are not a criminal deviant okays slitting the already bleeding wrists of the city.

If this passes, it proves to the world that Detroit is what it appears to be. A decaying city for decaying citizens. I truly hope the people stand up and declare that they are not as stupid and self-destructive as everyone thinks they are. I am moving back shortly, but will gladly turn back around and leave if this passes. I've always had hope for my hometown, in spite of everything. It now dawns on me that I have been a fool. The destructive behavior of the government is truly representing the people. New Motto: DETROIT 2010: CONTENT TO DIE, AS LONG AS WE HAVE WEED.

In other word, YOU personally don't use pot, so no one should.
Thanks for being the self-appointed moral compass for everyone, but I think Detroiters can make the call for themselves.

**kryptonite** · June-23-10, 11:06 AM

Legalizing pot makes all the sense in the world. I would include all street drugs - legalize them and tax them. Imagine the tax revenue! And less money spent on eradication and prosecution. How would society lose? You will never eliminate drug use, alcohol use, tobacco use, prostitution, gambling; prohibition was the perfect lesson that making something illegal will only encourage criminal behavior and violence since illegality means big profits for the crooks.

Just my opinion, don't expect laws to change to accomodate my plan.

**unclefrank** · June-23-10, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Too bad that the ministers sold their souls to support the casinos. Once upon a time, they would have said that the lawbreaking is the problem, not the law. Unfortunately, Detroit's religious community no longer seriously challenges its congregations to improve their own lives. Instead, it will hold the hands of the druggies, not rail at them to straighten up and fly right.

DETROIT 2020: population 250,000.
DETROIT 2020: private sector workforce: 250
DETROIT 2020: high school graduation rate: what's high school?
DETROIT 2020: mayor: state-appointed administrative control board.

More like Detroit 2012

**MCP-001** · June-23-10, 01:07 PM

John Stossel did a great piece last week on something closely related to this.

Click here for link [[sorry, no video yet).

It may reduce instances like this.

Click here for link.

Yeah, drug legalization is bad. Very, very bad. Why, who knows what it could lead to.

Maybe even this?

**unclefrank** · June-23-10, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by MCP-001

John Stossel did a great piece last week on something closely related to this.

Click here for link [[sorry, no video yet).

It may reduce instances like this.

Click here for link.

Yeah, drug legalization is bad. Very, very bad. Why, who knows what it could lead to.

Maybe even this?

Other than accounting for a Government tax, why should pot cost any more than makings for a salad? It's just a weed after all. That one video of the Cops killing the family dog was very disturbing. No wonder why even good people don't trust the Police.

**Gistok** · June-23-10, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Someone can justify all possible human activity. Maybe lots of businesses are just waiting to know that the city is officially full of potheads before opening in the city and hiring the stoners for high-paying jobs! Faster police response times? Well, it only seems fair that the cops can smoke pot, too. High prison populations? They will be higher with "legal" pot. Why? There will be more crime all around. Maybe not jailed for pot, but jailed for theft, robbery, vehicular homicide, etc... All any city needs to be blissful and prosperous is pot. Not tax cuts, more cops, or school choice. POT. POT FIXES EVERYTHING! Why, you can even eat it. There will be no more hunger! Being stoned makes you forget the city can't get the snow plowed, create a private sector job without massive subsidy, keep the potholes filled, etc.

This referendum is an attempt to justify terrible personal behavior. Behavior that has many negative ramifications for the city and society. But I suppose a personal need to feel that you are not a criminal deviant okays slitting the already bleeding wrists of the city.

If this passes, it proves to the world that Detroit is what it appears to be. A decaying city for decaying citizens. I truly hope the people stand up and declare that they are not as stupid and self-destructive as everyone thinks they are. I am moving back shortly, but will gladly turn back around and leave if this passes. I've always had hope for my hometown, in spite of everything. It now dawns on me that I have been a fool. The destructive behavior of the government is truly representing the people. New Motto: DETROIT 2010: CONTENT TO DIE, AS LONG AS WE HAVE WEED.

Geeze... this must be a new record on the forum for the longest "Slippery Slope" fallacy ever!!

Dude you need to hop the next plane over to Amsterdam.... and see how pot has ruined the Netherlands largest city... before you lecture people here...

Mark Twain Quote.... "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrowmindedness...

**Roq** · June-23-10, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Geeze... this must be a new record on the forum for the longest "Slippery Slope" fallacy ever!!

Ya, no kidding. I feel like I've just been transported to the premiere of "Reefer Madness" just by reading his post.

**Jimaz** · June-23-10, 08:06 PM

Total duration 43 minutes:

Since the beginning of the 20th century, most countries have enacted laws against the cultivation, possession, or transfer of cannabis for recreational use. These laws have impacted adversely on the cannabis plant's cultivation for non-recreational purposes, but there are many regions where, under certain circumstances, handling of cannabis is legal or licensed. Many jurisdictions have lessened the penalties for possession of small quantities of cannabis, so that it is punished by confiscation and sometimes a fine, rather than imprisonment, focusing more on those who traffic the drug on the black market.

In some areas where cannabis use has been historically tolerated, some new restrictions have been put in place, such as the closing of cannabis coffee shops near the borders of the Netherlands, closing of coffee shops near secondary schools in the Netherlands and crackdowns on "Pusher Street" in Christiania, Copenhagen in 2004.

Some jurisdictions use free voluntary treatment programs and/or mandatory treatment programs for frequent known users. Simple possession can carry long prison terms in some countries, particularly in East Asia, where the sale of cannabis may lead to a sentence of life in prison or even execution.