DPD Officer killed in eastside shooting

[Retroit]

What exactly are you expecting to hear that people haven't already said? We need more police, we need to get the criminals off the streets, we need to stop the violence - Great! Anyone can figure that out. So how do you accomplish that when the city's effectively bankrupt and a huge percentage of the city's population is impoverished to the point that the random gunfire at night is nothing more than background noise to the daily struggle to make it through the day?

The first step is to quit making excuses.

[Fnemecek]

I always thought that criminals were on the opposite side of the law enforcement. Am I missing something here? His take is obviously a little different than mine. Let's face facts. You kill someone, you should be given the same punishment. How is life in prison without parole any less of a torture or any less of a punishment? How is it any less than a "us against them thing"? Seems to me that Scott wants everyone to just look the other way.

If it would save the life of a single law enforcement officer or innocent civilian, I would fully support the death penalty. The reality of the situation, however, is that it won't.

21 police officers have been shot and killed in the line of duty by suspects thus far in 2010, including Officer Huff yesterday. 19 of those 21 shootings happened in jurisdictions that have the death penalty.

The death penalty didn't cause any of those 19 perpetrators to hesitate before killing a police officer. Enacting the death penalty in Michigan, unfortunately, won't stop any others from happening.

And Novine, the thought of us paying to keep these murderers alive is sickening as well. Maybe Detroit would have some more money to spend if we weren't dumping cash down the state prison money pit.

Unfortunately, it actually costs more to execute someone in the United States than it does to incarcerate them for life. For starters, a person sentenced to death has an automatic right to an appeal while someone sentenced to life in prison does not. There's also the fact that once a convict is sentenced to death, he literally has nothing to lose so he invariably becomes a more dangerous prisoner; generally requiring higher security while on death row.

Sources:
Officers killed in the line of duty @ http://odmp.org/search.php?searching...=2010&cause=19
Jurisdictions w/ death penalty @ http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/stat...-death-penalty
Costs of the death penalty @ http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

[SWMAP]

I have a neighbor who was involved in Ron Scott's group for awhile. She is entirely crazy, and viscious. She got to be too much for even him and she was kicked out. But her involvement of several years makes me believe that he is glad to surround himself with crazy people so it will look like his ideas have a community following. Only look at the followers!

I am so puzzled that the Free Press and WJR use him as a commentator - that they turn to someone so disreputable [[although he appears soft-spoken and reasonable) for thoughts. There are many more credible sources in Detroit and he shouldn't be given such bully pulpits. he is a lime-light seeker and a light weight. let us hear from more credible thought-leaders.

[Novine]

"And Novine, the thought of us paying to keep these murderers alive is sickening as well. Maybe Detroit would have some more money to spend if we weren't dumping cash down the state prison money pit."

At least it's a suggestion for a "solution". But unless you're advocating summary executions, I don't see how that saves us any money. Also, Michigan puts more people into prison than any of our neighboring states. But we're not safer for it. That's not an "excuse" for criminal behavior. But it makes the point that the "solutions" that have been pushed in the past aren't working and fixing the problem is going to require more work than just quick-fix "solutions" which solve nothing.

[Buy American]

If we can keep Hutaree militia members off the street, why can't we keep Jason Gibson off the street?

They will let the Hutaree idiots out of jail the same way Gibson was released a number of times for some pretty serious crimes. It seems that the thugs, criminals, perps and the wannabee terriorists [[i.e.,Hutaree) have more rights than the victims and intended victims.

[Gannon]

Sorry Buy, but they have the SAME rights as everyone else.

We just have a tougher time when those we deem unworthy of 'em get to exercise them.

[terryh]

Why did the cops enter a dark building at 3:am.? Couldn't shouldn't teargas have been the first option? One or more of the officers may have wanted to shake down the suspect for drugs and money...

[ejames01]

I vote for mass executions and torture. When are we going to stop pretending that we have a civilized society?

"And Novine, the thought of us paying to keep these murderers alive is sickening as well. Maybe Detroit would have some more money to spend if we weren't dumping cash down the state prison money pit."

At least it's a suggestion for a "solution". But unless you're advocating summary executions, I don't see how that saves us any money. Also, Michigan puts more people into prison than any of our neighboring states. But we're not safer for it. That's not an "excuse" for criminal behavior. But it makes the point that the "solutions" that have been pushed in the past aren't working and fixing the problem is going to require more work than just quick-fix "solutions" which solve nothing.

[ejames01]

Are you serious?????

Why did the cops enter a dark building at 3:am.? Couldn't shouldn't teargas have been the first option? One or more of the officers may have wanted to shake down the suspect for drugs and money...

[terryh]

Are you serious?????

Absolutely serious...just saying we werent there and dont know all the details...he may have been a 'gentle giant' and a great backup cop, but he was also ''aggressive on the street" which may can be translated as he, like many cops in big cities, was physically and verbally abusive...I want to see youre badge # or a little voice raising by a suspect becomes 'disorderly conduct' or some other trumped up charge....

Also I simply questioned the decision to enter the building in the dark......for the safety of the officers why wasn't teargas used? Also I heard on the news many officers are angry..just hope innocent citizens don't get the brunt of their anger....

[terryh]

I vote for mass executions and torture. When are we going to stop pretending that we have a civilized society?

What if innocent citizens get caught up in the mass executions and torture? What if someone you know or love get caught up in mass executions or torture?

[ejames01]

That is their job to enter buildings in the dark. Should they just return the next day?

Absolutely serious...just saying we werent there and dont know all the details...he may have been a 'gentle giant' and a great backup cop, but he was also ''aggressive on the street" which may can be translated as he, like many cops in big cities, was physically and verbally abusive...I want to see youre badge # or a little voice raising by a suspect becomes 'disorderly conduct' or some other trumped up charge....

Also I simply questioned the decision to enter the building in the dark......for the safety of the officers why wasn't teargas used? Also I heard on the news many officers are angry..just hope innocent citizens don't get the brunt of their anger....

[ejames01]

If they go around committing violent crimes, then they deserve it.

What if innocent citizens get caught up in the mass executions and torture? What if someone you know or love get caught up in mass executions or torture?

[English]

My heart goes out to the Huff family. This hits close to home, as I've got several officers among my own relatives.

[jt1]

It's funny how this subject seems to loose importance and fall further down the thread so quickly. This should be the most important thing DetroitYes patrons are focusing on right now. The shooting of these 5 officers and the murder of one of them didn't even make the ABC National News last night. The priorities in this country are so screwed up it makes me sick. We need more police in Detroit, no question. We need to get these scumbags off the streets and if that means building more jails or utilizing the closed schools as jails then so be it. Something needs to be done to stop this violence because it's only going to get worse.

I agree but would like to add that we needs courts that quit going so easy on repeaat offenders like the scum bag shooter. That POS and many others like him should still be in jail.

I can't imagine how demoralizing it is for DPD officers to bust their ass, arrest a scumbag knowing full well that the courts will just let him alk with probation.

[Stosh]

"And Novine, the thought of us paying to keep these murderers alive is sickening as well. Maybe Detroit would have some more money to spend if we weren't dumping cash down the state prison money pit."

At least it's a suggestion for a "solution". But unless you're advocating summary executions, I don't see how that saves us any money. Also, Michigan puts more people into prison than any of our neighboring states. But we're not safer for it. That's not an "excuse" for criminal behavior. But it makes the point that the "solutions" that have been pushed in the past aren't working and fixing the problem is going to require more work than just quick-fix "solutions" which solve nothing.

Look at it this way. Every single murderer we incarcerate is costing us $32000 a year according to sources. Each prisoner we don't have to pay for from this point on [[if enacted) could easily pay a significant portion of the costs of 1 additional policeman. What we have now incarcerated would be a legacy cost. This will have to start somewhere, would it not?

[Fnemecek]

Look at it this way. Every single murderer we incarcerate is costing us $32000 a year according to sources. Each prisoner we don't have to pay for from this point on [[if enacted) could easily pay a significant portion of the costs of 1 additional policeman. What we have now incarcerated would be a legacy cost. This will have to start somewhere, would it not?

Except that once a prisoner is sentence to death, it automatically triggers a series of appeals and the state is liable for those legal costs. Those legal expenses average more than $620,000 per prisoner.

Add in the higher security costs and the total cost of executing a prisoner in the United States is close to $1 million.

Plus, there's also the fact that 20% of all death penalty cases are overturned on appeal. The most common result of said appeals is that the prisoner is sentenced to life in prison anyway.

Instituting the death penalty to save money is the logical equivalent of buying a Ferrari because you feel that a Chevy is too expensive.

[Gannon]

Terryh,

I daresay you've been watching a few too many episodes of The Wire.


NO MATTER his conduct on 'the street', there is NO JUSTIFICATION whatsoever for loading his body with .45 slugs.

EVER.


WTF, man? What is fucking WRONG with you to even suggest that? You are tossed in the head, man.


We have Internal Affairs for investigating officers within the department. There are procedures and personnel in place to deal with citizen complaints. REAL citizens with REAL complaints.


This fellow's Commander used to be with IA, actually he was the highest-ranked officer to NOT be fired for investigating Kwhyme and his boys. He is one of the GOOD ones, and he was in fucking tears with the news of Officer Huff's death. His comments on WDET were heart-rending to hear.

I know Steve Dolunt, he is the oldest brother of one of my best high school friends, and one of the best people I've ever known. If HE was as shook up as he was, I know we lost another of the good ones in Huff.


I refuse to continue this mythology that the police are all bad and enemies of those in 'the street'...and I seriously recommend you look at your motivations for chiming in with your far-out scenario. And stop equating the distortions from Hollywood fed through the boob with reality. They are programming your mindset for a certain response...


Sincerely,
John

[Fnemecek]

Why did the cops enter a dark building at 3:am.? Couldn't shouldn't teargas have been the first option? One or more of the officers may have wanted to shake down the suspect for drugs and money...

Wow! This very well may be one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time.

Let's start with the most obvious things.

First, the last time I checked, DPD was too broke to keep a large inventory of CS grenades or launchers on hand.

Second, the folks who manufacturer CS grenades generally recommend against using them indoors because the gas is flammable.

There's also the fact that if anyone in the house had asthma or another respiratory problem, there's a decent chance that they'd be dead by the time any of the officers reached them. This would include both the suspects whose gunfire triggered the initial 9-1-1 call as well as anyone else who may have been inside.

To argue that those officers didn't use CS grendades so they must've been crooked is just plain stupid.

[Buy American]

Terryh,

I daresay you've been watching a few too many episodes of The Wire.


NO MATTER his conduct on 'the street', there is NO JUSTIFICATION whatsoever for loading his body with .45 slugs.

EVER.


WTF, man? What is fucking WRONG with you to even suggest that? You are tossed in the head, man.


We have Internal Affairs for investigating officers within the department. There are procedures and personnel in place to deal with citizen complaints. REAL citizens with REAL complaints.


This fellow's Commander used to be with IA, actually he was the highest-ranked officer to NOT be fired for investigating Kwhyme and his boys. He is one of the GOOD ones, and he was in fucking tears with the news of Officer Huff's death. His comments on WDET were heart-rending to hear.

I know Steve Dolunt, he is the oldest brother of one of my best high school friends, and one of the best people I've ever known. If HE was as shook up as he was, I know we lost another of the good ones in Huff.


I refuse to continue this mythology that the police are all bad and enemies of those in 'the street'...and I seriously recommend you look at your motivations for chiming in with your far-out scenario. And stop equating the distortions from Hollywood fed through the boob with reality. They are programming your mindset for a certain response...


Sincerely,
John

Amen to that!

[Stosh]

Absolutely serious...just saying we werent there and dont know all the details...he may have been a 'gentle giant' and a great backup cop, but he was also ''aggressive on the street" which may can be translated as he, like many cops in big cities, was physically and verbally abusive...I want to see youre badge # or a little voice raising by a suspect becomes 'disorderly conduct' or some other trumped up charge....

Also I simply questioned the decision to enter the building in the dark......for the safety of the officers why wasn't teargas used? Also I heard on the news many officers are angry..just hope innocent citizens don't get the brunt of their anger....

Terry, I'd just like to chime in with my 2 cents as well.

You must be part of the problem instead of part of the solution to believe any of that drivel you posted. I wish that you would engage your brain before posting, really.

[Zacha341]

Hmmn, I hear that. I know police are not perfect, for sure it is a love/ hate thing for some regarding them. But to quote Al Pacino playing an undercover detective in the flick Sea of Love: "Come the wet a#* hour who do they call??!" "I'm EVERYONE'S daddy!!!!!" [[Pacino signature yelling or course!)

Terry, I'd just like to chime in with my 2 cents as well.

You must be part of the problem instead of part of the solution to believe any of that drivel you posted. I wish that you would engage your brain before posting, really.

[terryh]

Wow! This very well may be one of the stupidest things I've read in a long time.

Let's start with the most obvious things.

First, the last time I checked, DPD was too broke to keep a large inventory of CS grenades or launchers on hand.

Second, the folks who manufacturer CS grenades generally recommend against using them indoors because the gas is flammable.

There's also the fact that if anyone in the house had asthma or another respiratory problem, there's a decent chance that they'd be dead by the time any of the officers reached them. This would include both the suspects whose gunfire triggered the initial 9-1-1 call as well as anyone else who may have been inside.

To argue that those officers didn't use CS grendades so they must've been crooked is just plain stupid.

O.K..It did cross my mind that the teargas canisters may be flamable.....but I dont think it was unreasonble for me to question the situation..if there is a suspected criminal holed up in an abandoned building at night in the dark, the officers should have top of the line safety equipment and protective gear...some of us have had very unpleasant humiliating experiences with the police...and.yes the police in some areas seeand deal with the worst of the worst of the human experience but so does the average citizen that lives in those devastated impoverished communities...doctors, ambulance drivers and soldiers see mans inhumanity to man...are complaints taken seriously or do they get shuffled through an apathetic system?

[Gannon]

I am sure you've had humiliating experiences with women, too, Terryh, but you don't go lumping THEM all together as the enemy now, do you?!



Or DO you?!

[Django]

My deepest sympathy's go out to the Huff family, and as some of our initial reactions would be to string up this Gibson I think we should be able to rise above that barbarous attitude. I'm more and more surprised that execution is still accepted in this country. Some rationalize it because it might save us money, which it doesn't [[thank you Fnemecek), some think its a deterrent, which its proven not to be, some just rationalize an eye for an eye, and some rationalize it all because its the easiest solution in their head.

Killing someone to avenge or for revenge just wont pan out in the long run. Killing someone because it might save you a few bucks, thats the most soulless argument Ive heard.

Anyone know how many countries still have the death penalty?