I worked at a Detroit Car dealership

[econ expat]

Long hours, no benefits, you serve at the pleasure of supervisors and are out on a whim. Average day ten hours. At one we worked on Mondays [[blue Monday) from 7:30 AM until 9 PM. Then back in Tuesday at 7:30 again, but out at 6.

At one dealership, we had to dismiss a employee because the dealer thought he made a "pest" of himself at the Christmas party. We felt bad for the fellow, a young kid that had low self esteem and just wanted reassurance that he was doing a good job. That particular dealer was a p**** which in many cases is a prerequisite to being a dealer I think. Not all, but a lot are.

I quit being in management over twenty years ago. From '76 to '88 in three dealerships. After the last go around as a manager with a dealer that rewarded his management team with PAY CUTS for the success we had in turning his dealership's reputation around, I had enough.But his hired consultant said we were overpaid for what we did. Thanks a lot for taking home paperwork every night, delivering parts to wholesale accounts at night all on my own time [[long story, rural area out west) and being on site six full days a week with no lunch break. The rewards I got for what I gave up.

There was one East side GM dealer notorious for overpaying, yes overpaying his managers. He paid them so much, they'd bury themselves, getting big mortgages, etc. With no chance of finding a job anywhere else paying the same.
Then, well then he OWNED them. He'd call them in the middle of the night to come to 'the store' to help plow the snow, move cars, brush off the snow, etc. Or just to come and 'clean up' a mess- a few papers out of place, etc. A fanatic about cleanliness. He was known to berate a manager in front of other employees or customers if there was so much as a cigarette butt on the floor.

[Gannon]

For three short but extremely profitable months in the middle-80s, I worked with the Seaway group in Dearborn.

I had purchased a few of my VW Rabbits there, and was knowledgeable beyond all but one of their salespeople on the product, so ol' Bob decided to take a chance on me...but over in Used, which was basically a non-starter.

I can only sell what I believe in, and some of those dogs that even the scrappers wouldn't touch were more than tough for me to imagine pitching, let alone dumping on some innocent foolish enough to buy 'em.


After watching another busy night on the New Car showroom, while all four of us in used looked at each other...I wandered over to help the stragglers feel important while they waited for a salesperson.

Got the nod from my manager to start walking them through qualification...and just started selling new cars...only a week or two after hiring. Being on the new floor as a green salesperson was unheard of in that organization, from the opposition he got...even from the owner Jack.

Luckily, an old family friend...Joe Malia, one of the true and honest pros of the car business...was also on the new floor, he stepped up and showed me the ropes, and I believe even made a bet with Bob and the F&I jerk whether I would make it or not.


I knew the VWs, but really not the Mazdas or Saabs...so every morning, I'd come in a bit early, and take my next victim out for a test ride. Got pretty good at assessing the performance on my little trek down Outer Dr. to Rotunda to Oakwood and back up Michigan Avenue...then also the rough-road course off Warren at Outer Dr. near Rouge Park, back when that road was pothole hell. Nothing proves out a suspension and chassis more than bumpy corners taken at speed.

I often encountered Ford engineers out driving their latest creations, the best time was when I goaded three pocket-protectors in a test mule for the '86 Mustang drivetrain to race the SPG version of the Saab turbo. I had discovered what happened with the then-new Sunoco 94-octane Super-duper through that knock-sensored variable-boost turbo system...and proceeded to whip those poor fellows at every single light up Oakwood towards Michigan Avenue for a mile just outside their old test track wall!


I think they went through every one of Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' steps on the way to acceptance! I saw anger and surprise...but didn't hang around enough for the despair! I wonder if I DID goad them onto better performance in later years, though...heh.


Later on, I got the chance to teach Mazda's advance team in Flatrock how to drive in the snow...after we delivered a bunch of 626s and 323s down to them, and I happened to ask if they knew anything about the white stuff! Right after the first snow, we turned that huge then-empty lot down at the old Ford plant into a wee gymkhana track, and I took turns showing ten VERY-enthused Mazda executives how to recover from losing control in the snow and ice...but MOSTLY how to NOT lose it! They got a kick out of the rally-style handbraked cornering I used.



But, back to the salesfloor.

Within THREE weeks, I became the second-best salesperson out of ten...a position I kept for the rest of my time there. I made the most money EVER in my life, but slowly began to despise the place...the management...the balance of the chain-smoking sales staff and their jealousies...then lastly myself for putting up with all of it.



I would NOT play their game of 'abuse-the-customers'...or more precisely, 'squeeze every last penny of profit from the deal, and the last few pieces of profit are the client's tears'. They were stymied at my success, and kept wondering how great I'd be 'if only' I would work with their 'proven' system.

My customers already took to bringing in their family and friends for referrals, so my business was growing exponentially. I knew what I was doing was better, and my results were proving it. My deals were MORE profitable, because my customers trusted me...and what I gave them in service and follow-up attention was worth WAY more than a few more dollars off the deal. MANY of my deals ended with folks gasping a sigh of relief and driving off with a new vehicle...smiling large.

But occasionally things went astray. The last straw was when a couple bought a Jetta GLI from me, and as standard practice I had to "turn them over" to the Finance and Insurance shredder of a brute, whose sole job was to lie and cheat and pack on all forms and sorts of additions and 'standard dealer items' to the contract. His whole conversation fit the ONE characteristic of the deal that the customer most focused upon...which we were taught to manipulate into being ONLY the monthly payment. [[something I never did on purpose, it was merely another thing I presented with the complete offer to sell)

So he had a wide range of tricks he could use to pad the dealership's bottom line...and he was very good at hammering people. I bet he could TEACH those Dale Carnegie 'influencing-people' workshops! Most times, I had already sold the client on the basic stuff, so he usually had little trouble with my people.


But while we were usually busy enough for me to not keep up with those I had already turned over...this night was slower, and I happened to look over into his office on the way to the restroom...and caught BOTH of the couple in fucking tears from this asshole's abuse. My gut sank beneath my feet, and I will never forget the looks on their faces...showing such shock and dismay.


I quit that night. Never thought to come back, and never did business with them ever again. Did what I could to encourage people away from both Seaway and Livonia VW...and got them down to Melton Motors, an honest family-owned VW dealership in Southgate. Wasn't unhappy when Seaway finally bit the dust.

Everyone but Malia can just go straight to hell, as far as I'm concerned. Same with all the other salespeople who play the 'old game'. I fully respect those in the business who don't resort to such lowball unethical and immoral tactics. I have been agressively against the 'standard practices' of the auto sales industry ever since.


Come to think of it, I am over-joyed with this new no-smoking in the workplace law...because my overwhelming memory of that whole time is trying to listen to the sales meetings from outside the doorway while trying to avoid the ever-growing cloud of exhales from these fire-breathing maniacs.

Everyone smoked cigarettes but me. Perhaps THIS law will resolve the longstanding hold smoking addicts have on new car sales...or at least take a few of the more chained of smokers out of the way while they take their nicotine breaks...giving a young non-smoking salesperson a chance at an up or two.



Thanks for reading along...I know this was cumbersome. It was cathartic for me, healing even.

Cheers

[Eastburn]

Are you talking about the Riverview Dodge that was at Lakepointe and Jefferson? If so, it was not Riverview Dodge in 1984.

It became Tessier Oldsmobile in 1973. It remained an Olds dealer under various owners until it closed in the mid '80s. It was torn down a few years later.

My bad. It was 1964 not 1984. Trying to lop 20 years off my age. Oh, to be 45 again.

[unclefrank]

I head a quote once from a top sales manager once. "The way we treat people, it's no wonder that customers would rather go to a funeral than buy a new car."

[CLAUDE G]

Wow- I did not know your family was still running the auto service at Verhoven.

Though I do recall seeing your name in news stories awhile back trying to prevent closing McNichols at Van Dyke. OK, a long time back ...

I knew your brother [[or cousin?) a few years ago, when he was a manager at Gorno Ford downriver, maybe he's still there. Last time I was there was probably 15 years ago, though.

I think that was one of my uncles. I know he works for a Ford dealer, im not sure which one.

We have tried to prevent the closing of 6 Mile, and when the city did that back around 1986 it cut off about half of our business since most of our customers where on the other side of the airport

[softailrider]

I head a quote once from a top sales manager once. "The way we treat people, it's no wonder that customers would rather go to a funeral than buy a new car."

I've heard that theme from soe people before. I don't get it, I like shopping for cars. I think it's relaxing. To me, it's not stressful at all.

That being said it's like going to the casino, make it tough on them to get your money, don't act like a stupid ass. But be aware that car dealers are car dealers, you're not going to beat them at their own game.

[LDoolan]

Well I own the building of what used to be called Verhoven Chevrolet back in the late 1970's.

We still have posters and other chevrolet parts, and promotional matterials laying around the second floor from 30 years ago when it used to be a dealership.

You should post some pics of the Promotional stuff, I'm a collector of Automotive memorabilia such as promotional, fluid cans, etc...

[DC48080]

There was one East side GM dealer notorious for overpaying, yes overpaying his managers. He paid them so much, they'd bury themselves, getting big mortgages, etc. With no chance of finding a job anywhere else paying the same.
Then, well then he OWNED them. He'd call them in the middle of the night to come to 'the store' to help plow the snow, move cars, brush off the snow, etc. Or just to come and 'clean up' a mess- a few papers out of place, etc. A fanatic about cleanliness. He was known to berate a manager in front of other employees or customers if there was so much as a cigarette butt on the floor.

That was Jim Causley. He was a real piece of work.

[Hermod]

I've heard that theme from soe people before. I don't get it, I like shopping for cars. I think it's relaxing. To me, it's not stressful at all.

That being said it's like going to the casino, make it tough on them to get your money, don't act like a stupid ass. But be aware that car dealers are car dealers, you're not going to beat them at their own game.

A fellow named Keats wrote a book called "The Insolent Chariots" back around 1960 showing the car business to be rotten from design studio to showroom. He summed it up by saying that "cars were made by oafs for thieves to sell to mental defectives".

[shovelhead]

In 71-72 when I was at Packer, all of us in the parts department were longhairs. Pretty loose with appearance, jeans were the norm. We did wear uniform shirts though.

The first time I went into Causley's to pick up some parts, I was in shock. White shirts, uniform pants, polished shoes, short hair and TIES. I thought to myself, "No bleepin' way I could or would work here." And for more of a shock,. they didn't even have WABX on in the background.

[econ expat]

Last time I was at that dealership, maybe 7-8 years ago. They were STILL wearing white shirts, polished shoes, and had short hair.
The policy might have changed since he died, but its still in the family.

In the 80's I was interviewed and hired by a dealership in North west suburbs. Then I was told I must shave off my mustache, no facial hair was allowed. Not a real hardship- sometimes I had the mustache, sometimes not. But the 'dress code' reminded me too much of school days. Pass. And it was strange- the dealership was named for the owner's son, and the son was in his 20's, kind of radical looking, and known as a stoner himself.

[99gprix]

Kinda sorta, Packer in about 1975 moved to their new location on Opdyke in Auburn Hills, later becoming Auburn Pontiac.
Packer later sold that Opdyke location to the same group that owned Quality Pontiac.

I work for both of those locations, Quality and Auburn I'm the parts manager of both!

[Papasito]

What changes did you see over the years?

Hopefully the end of C.S.I.
Having customers hold the dealership hostage with a survey while demanding the unrealistic and the impractical has become standard practice. These surveys cost jobs, as dealers are paid on these survey scores, and they aren't afraid to can someone over them in a heartbeat.

Furthermore, C.S.I. is a really fk'd up system. Someone's spouse can fill out a form and not the actual person who brought in the car. Someone could be angry at the product and take it out on the dealership instead of the manufacturer. Then there's the survey itself. Typically 5 available boxes to check and unless the TOP box is checked, it's a failing score for the employees that helped you with your car. The surveys are innacurate, and flawed.

Car manufacturers should be surveying on the quality of thier product,
because if the car was better, it wouldn't have broke in the first place.
There is no accountability for the quality of the product on most of these surveys,
the questions are worded so the brunt of any customer aggrivation falls upon the dealership.

I could rave for hours about this messed up system.

[econ expat]

Hopefully the end of C.S.I.
Having customers hold the dealership hostage with a survey while demanding the unrealistic and the impractical has become standard practice. These surveys cost jobs, as dealers are paid on these survey scores, and they aren't afraid to can someone over them in a heartbeat.

Furthermore, C.S.I. is a really fk'd up system. Someone's spouse can fill out a form and not the actual person who brought in the car. Someone could be angry at the product and take it out on the dealership instead of the manufacturer. Then there's the survey itself. Typically 5 available boxes to check and unless the TOP box is checked, it's a failing score for the employees that helped you with your car. The surveys are innacurate, and flawed.

Car manufacturers should be surveying on the quality of thier product,
because if the car was better, it wouldn't have broke in the first place.
There is no accountability for the quality of the product on most of these surveys,
the questions are worded so the brunt of any customer aggrivation falls upon the dealership.

I could rave for hours about this messed up system.

Agreed!
Not a new problem, Ford was running surveys like this more than 20 years ago. After you buy a new car, it usually takes awhile before any problems with the car show up, and they know that! Most replies to the surveys are from unhappy customers, so if its a new car buyer the only negatives mentioned will be from the buying experience.

And at the bigger dealers, they have CSI teams that do nothing but call and hound the customers to get the forms filled out.

Not always accurate, either. I knew a small town Ford dealer that was in business more than 70 years. Consistently won President's and Chairman's awards. I doubt there ever was a customer unhappy with the dealership itself.
Then the standards changed for the awards. Not only were there CSI standards to meet, but also unrealistic sales goals set by Ford. Try keeping a customer happy if they're sold a car they only thought they wanted [[after alot of sales pitches) That dealer took the high road- canceled the Ford franchise that would not have been renewed anyway and switched to selling tires and auto service. They're still in business. They just did not meet the sales and image requirements- no modern showroom, acres of cars, etc. An old 2 story 'Ford Agency' that still sold gasoline. And, funny, the parking was on the street, diagonal, as were the gas pumps[[between sidewalk and street)

[Gannon]

HA! That explains the frantic calls I got from my FRIEND after I sent in my evaluation of that Ford dealer on Telegraph down in Southgate when I bought my Contour SVT the first year they came out. I bought the first one off the truck and was a total 'lay down'...was writing the deposit check WHILE on the way back on the test drive!

But the F&I guy STILL tried to pack on bullshit and pad a deal that I was getting at full retail with NO attempt at a discount!

Nah, the ONLY trouble with those surveys was them putting the expectations on everyone rating the tops on everything, NO reasonable person gives every mark the top choice UNLESS THEY'VE BEEN BRIBED OR COACHED TO DO SO.

If the dealerships were firing if someone didn't hit all 5s, that should be grounds for a lawsuit for unreasonable dismissal...

Every time I got my Winstar or Contour maintained or repaired at that dealer, I'd always get frantic phone calls BEGGING to have a top survey. I told them I would always be honest, so they should just focus on doing their job, and the grovelling to me over the phone was just asinine.


Believe me, though, at the time I had some of the top executives at Ford as hifi clients, and I gave THEM an earful about it often. When I got that chance to be Bill Jr.s coffee buddy at Starbucks in W. Dearborn, he heard it, too. I am never shy about reflecting back to someone what is happening in their organizations...and I NEVER complained about the nagging phone calls...I ALWAYS addressed the total waste of time those surveys were for ALL involved.

Especially the consumer, who had to suffer dozens of them while watching the bullshit behavior from the dealership employees [[mostly sales, f&i, and the service managers upselling un-necessary repairs while simultaneously shielding the corporation from recalls and lawsuits with their obfuscations of trends) continue to INCREASE! What good is a feedback loop, if it doesn't IMPROVE the system?!


Glad you brought that up...now I know the rest of the story, it was bullshit for the dealership employees, too. Geez...

[Gannon]

I am reminded now why I'm so pissed at GM for making the Saturn experiment go away.

Their dealership operated differently. Every reasonable person I know drives a Saturn because they got treated like human beings EVERY time they walked in the door...not dollar signs.

They used to be the last bastion of hope for the American car manufacturers...but now that hope is gone.


No cheers on this one...

[econ expat]

I am reminded now why I'm so pissed at GM for making the Saturn experiment go away.

Their dealership operated differently. Every reasonable person I know drives a Saturn because they got treated like human beings EVERY time they walked in the door...not dollar signs.

They used to be the last bastion of hope for the American car manufacturers...but now that hope is gone.


No cheers on this one...

Ha!
I do agree there! You recall the noble experiment then.

A new division with no ties to the other makes/ model parts and sales.
Pick out the best of the best dealers, be they GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota dealers, just choose the most ethical. Well, there were a few mistakes in the choices, that happens. GM saw Honda and Toyota sales growing and wanted to keep that share of the market, so they set up Saturn as the import copy/ fighter.
And the dealers did treat their customers as their source of business [[not amusement) and repeat business. ONE price for the vehicle, no matter what dealer.

BTW- that policy is OK by me, but some old timers actually expect haggling. My dad went to 3-4 Saturn dealers when buying a new one for mom. He was frustrated because he couldn't get much 'on trade' for the 15 year old Tempo.

GM had a good concept and never gave it a much of a chance, almost sabotaged the brand by neglect. For years there was only one car model, choice of 2 door, 4 door, wagon. Automatic or standard trans.
Instead of developing this brand that could have been their signature for a new century, they got $$$ signs at the corporate level. Let's make a copy of another of our cars and call it a Saturn. See how that worked out...
Pontiac was also a more innovative division, until all the cars got numbers and became clones of other brands.
And GM tried to advertize Olds as "not your father's Oldsmobile' and tinkered there.

New Coke, anyone?

[Papasito]

Nah, the ONLY trouble with those surveys was them putting the expectations on everyone rating the tops on everything, NO reasonable person gives every mark the top choice UNLESS THEY'VE BEEN BRIBED OR COACHED TO DO SO.

That is exactly right! No one wants to mark top box for anything, because essentially that means that what you are grading is the best it's ever going to be, with NO ROOM for IMPROVEMENT. It's an unrealistic grade.

If the dealerships were firing if someone didn't hit all 5s, that should be grounds for a lawsuit for unreasonable dismissal...

I've always said that the CSI system is a lawsuit waiting to happen. There are too many variables beyond your control to tie terms of employment and substantial dollars to the CSI system.

[reddog289]

Over 20 yrs ago I had my first and only [[so far) job in a dealership. It was ok yet I liked my former line of work better.The dealer was Fairlane Ford in East Dearborn. I worked in paint prep. 20 YRS LATER I look at the place still the same. The ramp up to the paint shop, Can't say anything bad about it cause I only worked there 3 weeks and went back to my old job. But I got a taste of what it's like to work at a dealership.
As for Saturn, I know many Saturn owners. They are sad about the death of the deal.

[Mikeg]

Well I own the building of what used to be called Verhoven Chevrolet back in the late 1970's.

We still have posters and other chevrolet parts, and promotional matterials laying around the second floor from 30 years ago when it used to be a dealership.

Do you have any knowledge of when that building was constructed? Was there a tenant/owner prior to Verhoven? I have a Ford Dealership news article from 1937 about Rivard Brothers Ford operating a mini-showroom and service facility at Van Dyke and McNichols as a feeder for their main operations at Eight Mile and Van Dyke. The article also mentions that they bought out a gas station across the street and established a 25 vehicle used car lot on the gas station parcel.

[EMG]

Their dealership operated differently. Every reasonable person I know drives a Saturn because they got treated like human beings EVERY time they walked in the door...not dollar signs....

It's still quite possible to get treated like a human being in a car dealership. I do. The secret? I drive a Honda. 9 years and still only needs oil changes. And they don't tell me I have to leave it overnight to have it done. Or call me the next day to tell me the car's ready, but when I take a day off work to pick it up tell me oops, they made a mistake and it's not really ready yet. And, oh yea, they're open on SATURDAY so I don't even have to take off work to go to the dealer.

When one removes the blinders and realizes the gates of Hell won't open to claim you just because you bought a "foreign" car [[which in many cases happens to have a lot more North American content than you originally thought), a world of truly enjoyable driving experiences opens.

[lpg]

I am reminded now why I'm so pissed at GM for making the Saturn experiment go away.

Their dealership operated differently. Every reasonable person I know drives a Saturn because they got treated like human beings EVERY time they walked in the door...not dollar signs.

They used to be the last bastion of hope for the American car manufacturers...but now that hope is gone.


No cheers on this one...

I agree 100%. Wife and I leased a 99 Saturn and liked it and the way were treated at Saturn of Southgate that we purchased a 02 SL2 that we still have. I was not suprised at GM's fumbling of the Saturn brand.

[Stosh]

It's still quite possible to get treated like a human being in a car dealership. I do. The secret? I drive a Honda. 9 years and still only needs oil changes. And they don't tell me I have to leave it overnight to have it done. Or call me the next day to tell me the car's ready, but when I take a day off work to pick it up tell me oops, they made a mistake and it's not really ready yet. And, oh yea, they're open on SATURDAY so I don't even have to take off work to go to the dealer.

When one removes the blinders and realizes the gates of Hell won't open to claim you just because you bought a "foreign" car [[which in many cases happens to have a lot more North American content than you originally thought), a world of truly enjoyable driving experiences opens.

EMG, stick your honda up your behind and rotate it.

[Ray1936]

What Stosh said.

[fryar]

I'm really very happy with my 1999 Saturn, it has not been a giant repair bill although it is an older car. Would have liked to see that brand's approach work out better.

I have always wondered how come cars turned into such a haggle bazaar. I don't waltz into Best Buy and offer them 10% less for a computer.