Enforcing Immigration Law is "a violation of civil rights"

[Diehard]

After all the trouble my family went through for us to come here legally, I don't think you can qualify me as a "parrot".

I have no idea what your family went through. The "right-wing parrot" comment referred to your contention that all an illegal alien needs to do is "pull the victim card and demand their citizenship." I asked you to show me one example of that happening.
It doesn't happen, and having Uncle Bubba and other ill-informed people keep repeating crap like this just clouds the issue and further demonizes people who may well be trying to jump through all the hoops and get their citizenship the legal way. As you pointed out, citizenship doesn't come easily.

[firstandten]

Why do the same people who trust the government to control Wall Street, the Automakers, and Health Care not trust the same Government to impliment the law fairly? Why the double standard?

After all, Law Enforcement is an extention of Government.

Local law enforcement.. local goverment .. big difference

[Danny]

Let's preview about the New World we call North America:

1. Millions of years ago, pre-historic cavemen came to America before the ice ages. Suddenly they disapeared when the ice ages begin. They were immigrants.

2. Thousands of more pre-historic cavemen came to America during and after the ice ages. They settle in lands which its good for them and became Native American Nation Tribes. They were immigrants.

3. In A.D. 1002 Leifr Eiriksson and the Vikings came to America to settle in New Foundland and Labrador Island. They were immigrants. But they left and never returned.



4. In A.D. 1492 Cristoforo Colombo sailed the ocean blue by sailing three ships from Spain straight west to the Indies. When He discover some islands, he didn't know that its the new world until his next year voyage. He and his sailers were immigrants.

5. In A.D. 1497 Giovanni Caboto sailed the ocean blue to discovered North America for England. He was a immigrant and sailed back to England to make a report to the king.

6. In A.D. 1500 Black Stephen and his sailors went to find the lost City of Gold in North America. They were immigrants. They returned with no evidence but plunder the native who got in their way.

7. In A.D. 1513 Juan Ponce de León and 200 conquistadores sailed to La Florida to find the fountain of Youth. They were immigrants. They returned to the Spanish main with no evidence of mystical fountian.

8. In A.D. 1521 Hernan Cortes and his conquistadores arrived to explore Mexico, discover Tenochtlan, conquered the entire Aztec Empire and wipe them out. They were immigrants.

9. In A.D. 1535 Jacques Cartier discovers Canada for King of France. He was an immigrant.

10. In A.D. 1585 Sir Walter Raleigh and his people from England from the Virginia Company set to colonize the islands off the coast of Virginia. They were immigrants. When Sir Walter Raleigh came back from England. The colony was
gone.

11. A.D. 1609 The Dutch East Indian Company sent some sailers and colonists to Manhattan Island and brought it from the Indians from $24.00 worth of junk. The Dutch made a settlement and called New Amsterdam. They were immigrants. Later the Brittish seized control of of the island and called New York Island. Now its part of the United States and it's North American's first super city called New York City.

12. In A.D. 1607 When Captian John Smith and his people from England came to Virginia and called to Jamestown. They were immigrants.

13. In A.D. 1619 Captian Jope's brought a slave ship loaded with African Slaves to North America. They came as Unwilling immigrants.

14. In A.D. 1620 The Pilgrims from England and Holland sailed on the Mayflower, they came to America and settle on Plymouth Rock near Cape Cod. and built the town of Plymouth. They were immigrants. They celebrated the first thanksgiving with the Native Americans in 1621.

15. From 1607 to 1730 13 English colonies were established to prevent any more Spanish, Dutch, French and Portuguese explorers to seize control over North America.

16. The Spanish claimed the Pacific Northwest from 1774 to 1793. The Spaniards who settled in those areas were immigrants. Later, the Brittish and yes the Russians tried to lay claim to the Pacific Island Coasts. Later the U.S. claim the middle central part from Baha Califormia to Canada and Alaska. The Brittish claimed the rest of the Pacific Northwest but lost in in 1867 when Canada became independent. The Russians lost the rest the middle Pacific Northwest coast after the War of 1812 to the United States due to lack of interest and Tsarist/Napoleonic War costs.

MORE TO COME

[rb336]

the Obama birth certificate controversey has absolutely nothing to do with an Arizona bill that states it will enforce Federal laws that already exist.

there is no controversy -- except for how so many people can be so freaking stupid that they buy in to this birther bullshit

[Danny]

17. In A.D. 1638 A Russian explorer named Semyon Dezhnev might have discovered Alaska. By A.D. 1725 Tsar Peter the First called another expedition. By 1742 Vitus Bering, Alexei Chirikov discover Alaska [[officially). In the Meantime Bering and his crew was shipwrecked in a Alaskan/ Aleutian Island. They were immigrants. After Berring died his crew made boats out of the old ship and sailed to Russia.

Russian Settlement of Alaska begin around 1740 These colonists were immigrants. Under to the Russian American Company. It lasted to 1860 when Russian suffured financial problems during the Crimean War against England. Fearing that England will get Alaska [[ in which the British have little interest) Russian American Company decided to sell the land to U.S. Secretary of State Willian Seward in 1867. The U.S. controled Alaska even through some critics think that 'Seward's Icebox or Seward's Folly' was a mistake. The 'Americans' from the mainland of U.S. came to Alaska to settle and became immigrants. Alaska became a state in 1959.

MORE TO COME...

[gibran]

I wonder if they were carrying their papers

[Jimaz]

I was doing some related research on John Tanton and ran across a right-wing web site that was flagged as unsafe [[10 computer threats) by Norton. Be safe.

SPLC's The Puppeteer

The organized anti-immigration 'movement,' increasingly in bed with racist hate groups, is dominated by one man, John Tanton.

Between 1985 and 1994, FAIR [Federation for American Immigration Reform] accepted $1.2 million from the Pioneer Fund — an outfit once described by eugenics expert Barry Mehler as a "neo-Nazi organization, tied to the Nazi eugenics program in the 1930s, that has never wavered in its commitment to eugenics and ideas of human and racial inferiority and superiority."

SPLC's John Tanton's Network

[Papasito]

Danny, all your copy and pasting refers to a time before a nation drew borders [[that should have been controlled better) to the north and south. Everyone is pointing the finger at Arizona, but Arizona is only saying they are now going to enforce Federal laws that are already on the books, because the Federal Government has failed to control the borders and to enforce thier laws.

The law in Arizona is less strict than the immigration laws in Canada and Mexico, and you can compare it to immigration laws in 95% of the world and find it is quite fair.

Oh, and Diehard, I don't listen to Rush if that is who "Uncle Bubba" is supposed to be

[barnesfoto]

There are positive aspects to this whole nonsense, which in part is a result of the failure of other right wing programs, i.e. The Financial Disaster resulting from conservorcrite deregulation.

Mediocre politicians know that they can always distract the masses from the important issues and gain some votes by conjuring up the image of a boot on somebody's head for the myopic little misinformed turds who celebrate such things.

Ultimately, they are trying to control one of the oldest forms of human behavior-migration [[and our country as well as all the nations of the Americas were founded upon acts of "illegal immigration"). In effect, they are trying to control the activity of hundreds of thousands of individuals, which is folly. The strengthening of the border in CA has simply caused more people to flow through Arizona; If they try to seal Arizona, the flow of humanity will find another means.
Even the Berlin Wall could not stop immigration, though Germany is able to effectively discourage the undocumented from working there by placing fines on businesses that employ them.
That will never happen in the US due to the agribusiness lobbies.

Meanwhile, the backlash will probably help the Immigration Reform Law to pass more quickly-as it should.

If the right had any brains, they would stop trying to control individuals and would support a levy, a fee, or a tax on wannabe immigrants.

My neighbor's brother just got here from San Luis Potosi, where the small town that he lived in has been turned into a dangerous battlefield by the Mexican [[Conservocrite) Goverment's War on Drugs. The family simply paid a coyote 5k rather than wait the ten years it would take for him to come legally. They have a bit of money and figured that if he didn't leave, he'd be kidnapped and it would cost them even more money..He'll simply help out my neighbors with their business.
My neighbors told me the family happily would have paid that 5K to the US Government, rather than a coyote, who brought him up stashed in a van.

Silly myopes. The Berlin Wall was a failure, and so too will be the police-state response in Arizona..America needs more risk takers, more fresh blood and less people sitting on their ass posting on internet forums.

[ferntruth]

the Obama birth certificate controversey has absolutely nothing to do with an Arizona bill that states it will enforce Federal laws that already exist.

That's just it, papasito. There is no "controversey" over President Obama's birth certificate. Even your attempt to direct the string back on track contains a weak attempt to create controversy where none exists.

[oladub]

barnesphoto, The Berlin Wall the East Germans was built to keep East Germans from escaping into West Germany. The issue here is not the same. Mexico is not erecting a wall to prevent Mexicans from fleeing.

Attempting to roughly put a monetary value on the value of a US citizenship, my guess is that it would be worth at least $250,000. in terms of taxpayer supported education for the family, a higher standard of living, and government provided health care among other benefits. Your passed on suggestion of a $5,000 fee sells our country short. Besides, our Congress is supposed to implement the immigration system. Your concept of immigration is determined by foreigners thinking about their own self interests. Who can blame them? With the present rate of legal and illegal immigration and including your brother's neighbors, we are on track to have a population of 520M in 2050 and 1.2T by 2100 like China. Nirvana,right?

As you suggest, there have always been invasions in which one culture is overwhelmed and/or destroyed by the new. No existing contiguous government is much over 1,000 years old [[Iceland's). Borders and civilizations will ebb and flow. We can probably accept many more immigrants before any such inevitable thing happens. First we will have some language disputes [[think Quebec) ,more no-go areas like East LA, and of course a continuing deterioration of most Americans' standard of living. Our difference is that you are agreeable to speeding up the process.

[barnesfoto]

A wall is a wall. You can make excuses only based on what side of it you are standing on. You can try to use certain catch phrases too.
Much like you, the "free speech" advocate try to insist that illegals be referred to as "aliens", the East German Government insisted that the wall was really an "Anti-Fascist Protective Barrier"

The Berlin wall tried to stop human migration. Human migration can be slowed, but can never be stopped.

Please avoid making comments about places that you know nothing about.
East LA is hardly a "no-go zone" [[I lived there for over a year) unless one spends one's time reading and posting internet fear porn, or one runs about throwing gang signs at strangers.

People fifty years ago spouted the same sort of population bomb stuff about Italians, People 100 years ago spouted the same sort of stuff about Asians, People 150 years ago spouted the same sort of half truths and nonsense about the Irish.

Come up with whatever figures you like regarding the cash value of citizenship, The difficulty of becoming a legal US Citizen means that organized criminal gangs make lots of money smuggling people in. That's money that could be flowing into our treasury.

Our excellent departed Police Chief, William J. Bratton, wrote a great article last fall about why local law enforcement should stay out of national issues. Here it is:

The LAPD fights crime, not illegal immigration

The outgoing chief of police urges the department to keep focusing on community outreach.
October 27, 2009|William J. Bratton, William J. Bratton is chief of the Los Angeles Police Department.
The Police Foundation's report is available online at http://www.policefoundation. org/strikingabalance/.


On March 12, Juan Garcia, a 53-year-old homeless man, was brutally murdered in an alley off 9th and Alvarado streets in the Westlake District, just west of downtown Los Angeles. At first, the police were stumped; there were no known witnesses and few clues. Then a 43-year-old undocumented immigrant who witnessed the crime came forward and told the homicide detectives from the Rampart station what he saw. Because of his help, a suspect was identified and arrested a few days later while hiding on skid row. Because the witness was not afraid to contact the police, an accused murderer was taken off the streets, and we are all a little bit safer. Stories like this are repeated daily in Los Angeles.

more: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct...n/oe-bratton27

[oladub]

barnesphoto, Precise speech is not to be confused with free speech. You are confusing the two. Aliens are non-citizens. They come in two flavors; legal and illegal. The illegal variety should be treated like other law breakers. I wouldn't go after them so much as their cheating employers. If their jobs disappeared, the invasion would end and probably reverse. I'm sure you could find some heart warming anecdote about kindly thieves or pimps too but they are still thieves and pimps. The LAPD police chief wouldn't have his job if he enforced immigration law. Such is the reality of LA politics. Had LA enforced immigration law, it wouldn't today be on the brink of bankruptcy. It's probably too late for LA.

Your equivocating a wall meant to retain East German citizens with any attempt to prevent an economic invasion, I guess, suggests a wide gap in our respective understandings. By the way, how much do you suggest selling citizenships for?

The population numbers I came up with were provided by the census bureau if the same immigration pattern continues. I guess a population of 520 million by 2050 is ok with you.

Jobs being exported from this country and the lack of will to even protect the remaining jobs from foreign interlopers have caused American workers' standards of living to drastically decline. Your arguments in favor of this economic invasion are supportive of this decline in our living standard.

My father and both maternal grandparents were immigrants. My grandfather was not allowed into the US because he knew no English so he had to spend a year in a Canadian lumber camp to learn English. He, in turn, had to accept full financial responsibility for his son in law, my father, as a sponsor. Had my father become disabled, no government help would have been available until my grandfather had exhausted his resources. This is quite a change from the low lifes you mentioned who snuck into our country and compare paying off coyotes with paying off the government to have their way. There are enough qualified individuals who are willing to go through proper immigration procedures that we should be selective. Let's go with the people who knock on the front door instead of the ones who crawl in through the basement window.

[gibran]

when people's parents came there were immigration laws that made it easier to become citizens...reverse the laws to a simpler time and maybe this wouldn't Be a debate...I believe that most immigrants travel to improve their lives and/or to escape poverty...are generally hard working and dedicated people..of course the stories of Mongol hoards at the door is nothing new...but you have to ask yourself that if Europe was closer during the famines and wars of the last 100 years...and the Atlantic was a short swim between contents...how many more Irish, Italian or Poles would there be here...it's easy to say well they all came legally...[[yes---many did...because they had to funnel through Ellis island or Galveston)...but I work with immigrants ...many would love to be here legally and be accepted...many would love the opportunity to become citizens...and many join the armed forces to do so,...is there bad apples? YES. But, most just want to make a living for themselves...fixing YOUR roofs, picking YOUR fruit, and working in YOUR Kitchens....next time you want to see what immigrants look like ..go to a Hispanic MASS....you will see it filled with people who work the jobs...YOU don't want...and worship like YOUR grandparents.

[Detroitej72]

Some questions about this whole immigrant debate:

If a Latino citizen is walking around Phoenix to get to work, he can be stopped anytime and asked for papers. I don't know about others, but I don't carry my birth certificate on me, why should this person have to?

If that person is stopped by the four or five police he passes, he'll have to leave an extra hour to make it to work on time. Is this fair?

Finally, are the right wing militia and tea bagger types going to come to the aid of these citizens and protest this infringement and assault on American's rights? This is starting to look like that police state they fear.

[jcole]

I just wonder how many of the people for the Arizona law are the same ones that want an open border with Canada

[Papasito]

There are positive aspects to this whole nonsense, which in part is a result of the failure of other right wing programs, i.e. The Financial Disaster resulting from conservorcrite deregulation

How many times do people with partisan blinders on have to be told the financial meltdown was bi-partisan?

Glass–Steagall Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

Some provisions of the Act, such as Regulation Q, which allowed the Federal Reserve to regulate interest rates in savings accounts, were repealed by the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980. Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act.
......
The bill that ultimately repealed the Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm [[Republican of Texas) and in the House of Representatives by Jim Leach [[R-Iowa) in 1999. The bills were passed by a Republican majority, basically following party lines by a 54–44 vote in the Senate[12] and by a bi-partisan 343–86 vote in the House of Representatives.[13] After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90–8 [[one not voting) and in the House: 362–57 [[15 not voting). The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.[14]
The banking industry had been seeking the repeal of Glass–Steagall since at least the 1980s. In 1987 the Congressional Research Service prepared a report which explored the cases for and against preserving the Glass–Steagall act.

Bi-partisan , Barnesfoto.
You seem to be one of those folks who have the illusion that thier party of choice can do no wrong...

[rb336]

Finally, are the right wing militia and tea bagger types going to come to the aid of these citizens and protest this infringement and assault on American's rights? This is starting to look like that police state they fear.

some might, but the vast majority of them are so brainwashed by their corporate masters, er, i mean sponsors, that the only thing they seem to think violates rights are regulations on the super rich and corporations

[Papasito]

People fifty years ago spouted the same sort of population bomb stuff about Italians, People 100 years ago spouted the same sort of stuff about Asians, People 150 years ago spouted the same sort of half truths and nonsense about the Irish.

Big difference. They came legally.
For example, the Italians came in through Ellis Island. They got legal papers to be here. Sure, they were discriminated against, but they didn't whine and moan and cry to the Government demanding health care, affordable housing, and as victims of racism. They worked hard and earned thier spot in American society, where they are now [[for the most part) embraced [[and labed "white").

Human migration can be slowed, but can never be stopped

So why have any sovereign nation at all? Why have borders at all? Why have a homeland? Why not reign in the new world order today? And let the strongest fearmongering tyrant with the most cut throats in his army and the biggest arsenal of weapons run it all? What you speak of [[the abandonment of borders, language and culture) is anarchy. Total madness. No order. Is this what you want for this country?
For all countries?
If our border means nothing, then all the other nations of the world should tear down thiers too. Or is it just the dirty evil racist haters in the U.S.A. that need to do it?


The only one that makes any sense in this thread is Gibran.
Other people switch the thread to Obamas birth certificate and the cause of the American Financial Meltdown,
when it should be focused on the US making an immigration policy that works and then enforces it.

I can tell you that coming to this country legally is very difficult. Lawyers take advantage of people trying to get thier citizenship the right way, and the Government is of not much help.
The Government is difficult to work with that many folks have to resort to hiring lawyers to help them. These lawyers charge ballooned fees and drag out the citizenship process for as long as they can soak thier clients.

The system is broken, and it needs help.
If we only had a modern day Ellis Island........

[Danny]

CONTINUED...

18. When Colonial America in the A.D. 1600s florished under the Kings and Queens of England. Many prostestant religious organiztions like the Quakers, Shakers, and Amish came to seek religious freedom. They were immigrants.

19. After the American Colonialists declared their independence from England and later call themselves the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, They determined to expand west to promote their 'manifest destiny.' When President Thomas Jefferson brought the Louisiana Purchase from Napoleon Bonaparte in 1803, Jefferson sent Merriweather Louis and William Clark on a expedition with Sacajawea and Toussaint Charbonnueau. They laid the blueprint to westward expansion. Lewis and Clark were immigrants in a strange land. They were making a destination to Oregon Territory.

20. In the A.D. 1820s Lot's of Americans went to Texas [[when it was under Mexican rule) to settle and make their homestead. They were immigrants in a foreign land. Then conflicts from the Mexican President Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna force them to fight for independence. The famous battle of the Alamo came in. The American Immigrants lost. But the war still goes on. It was the famous Battle of San Jacinto that the American Immigrants won and gain their independence. The Republic of Texas was formed. [[ It was not part of the U.S. territory until annexation by the U.S. in 1846.)

21. By the A.D. 1840's to the A.D. 1870s a booming wave of Irish came to U.S. after the great potatoe famine. They were immigrants. Most of them settled in New York City into the slums of Five Points where there violent crime everywhere. Gangs like the Plug Uglies and the Forty Theives ruled the streets until the Mayor Tweed and the Tammany Family increased law inforcement.

22. In A.D. 1830 Prophet Joseph Smith founded the Mormon Church. Over the time they were persecuted for their practice of polygamy. Later in A.D. 1847 Prophet Brigham Young told his church to head west to their 'promised land' of Utah [[Which it owned by Mexico it the time before the war against the U.S.) They were immigrants in a strange land of Northern Mexico. As they made it to Utah, the news came later the Utah and all the north borders of Mexico were ceded to U.S. some of them migrated to Mexico and others stay.



23. From A.D. 1800s to A.D. 1900s The Westward Expansion continued with the development of the railroad, gold, iron and sliver mining. The discovery of oil. It lured millions of immigrants into their chuck wagons, fighting Native American Tribes in their way and building homestead farming.

24. In A.D. 1820 The Chinese came to America. They were immigrants. They later worked for the railroad by the mid 1800s. Congress tried to put laws to barred any more Chinese to come to America. But those laws were appealled and reformed.

26. In A.D. 1900 Ellis Island was built to bring the wave of immigrants to the U.S. Immigrants who arrived in the island have to be processed and medically checked before they can be welcomed in America. Some welcomed, others didn't due to medical problems and the rest deported due to support of radical parties. lots of Europeans from Poland, Eastern Soviet Union, Finland, Norway, Hungary, Denmark, France, Yugoslavia, Romania, Albania, Great Brittian, Ireland, Iceland, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Switzerland. There were more immigrants from Italy and Germany. Especially the Jews and Roman Catholic families.

27. After World War I in A.D.1917 and World War II in 1918 an influx of immigrants from Europe and Asia come to United States for a better life. By the late 20th Century a boomin wave of immigrants from Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti and Mexico for a better life, job and raise their families. Some came illegally and we tried to close the golden door on them.


So this is how we deal in immigrants in the 'Home of the Free and Land of Brave?' But remember this stories from history, we were immigrants and descendents of immigrants who came to North and South America for political, religious and social freedom. Our nation may keep immigrants out, they will keep on coming. Legally and illegally. Instead of tossing them out, let's give them amnesty until they learn to Speak English, U.S. History, get a job and a home. That would be a great immigration reform don't you all think.


WORD FROM THEM STREET PROPHET

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
' With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Neda Agha-Soltan: You will be remembered.

[Detroitnerd]

Sure woulda been nice if the First Nations had had a department of immigration.

[Papasito]

Danny

I saw a lot of bold typed immigrant but never saw illegal preluding your multi post copy/paste extravaganza. Completely irrelavant, but a pleasant read.

According to statistics obtained by CBS 5 News, 19 percent of the inmates in Maricopa County Jail are suspected illegal immigrants being held on an immigration or U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement hold.

In Pima County, the number of inmates suspected of being illegal immigrants is around 10 percent.

In Pinal County, the number of inmates suspected of being illegal immigrants is around 30 percent.

Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said if Gov. Jan Brewer signs the immigration bill to toughen Arizona's immigration laws, the amount of crime in local communities would drop dramatically.


"These are people that are always armed and they're creating an extreme risk to my deputies -- and that, I'm not going to tolerate," said Babeu.

http://www.kpho.com/news/23216424/detail.html

Let's remember that a huge portion of illegal alien crime is committed against other people of the same race.

[Sstashmoo]

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

And once through that door, they got a shovel stuck in their hands. The whole immigration drive in the early 20th century lured many folks here that regretted coming here later on. Actually, many went back. It's like the 1849 gold rush to populate California. A ruse. One only needs to study the Chinese immigration about the same time to build the western rail system. Nothing but slavery.

[Retroit]

I presume that was a joke Sstachmoo? My immigrant [[legal) grandfather practically begged to have "a shovel stuck in his hands." LOL

Very nice job, Papasito, keeping this thread on topic.

I'll only add that I think we should make as much effort to welcome legal immigrants as we do keeping out illegal immigrants. Let's build the Ellis Islands and Statues of Liberty on the Rio Grande and welcome the good, hard-working people of Mexico to our country. Let's open welcoming centers along both sides of the border to educate the immigrants on the procedures and on the laws of our great country. Let us teach them our language and our culture so that they can be better citizens or visitors while they are here. And, yes, let us punish those who refuse to abide by our laws.

[Diehard]

I'll only add that I think we should make as much effort to welcome legal immigrants as we do keeping out illegal immigrants. Let's build the Ellis Islands and Statues of Liberty on the Rio Grande and welcome the good, hard-working people of Mexico to our country. Let's open welcoming centers along both sides of the border to educate the immigrants on the procedures and on the laws of our great country. Let us teach them our language and our culture so that they can be better citizens or visitors while they are here. And, yes, let us punish those who refuse to abide by our laws.

That makes so much sense, it'll never pass.