Let us Consolidate Detroit.

[Detroitnerd]

Sorry there are few if any suburbanites who think Detroit's "dowry" even remotely balances out the sheer and utter problems, blight, poor schools, crime etc that Detroit brings to the table.

Lincoln, I'm not trying to say that we can wake up tomorrow and the suburbanites and city dwellers will all get along and be happy to unite under the same government. I don't think I've said that, have I? If I have, I'd very much like for you to point that out. Or else I'm just going to think you're putting words in my mouth.

If we are to consolidate Detroit, it will be a long process that probably involves changing the state constitution, having multiple referenda on annexation or consolidation or merging of services, and all this would have to be accompanied by serious dialogue and lots of education. It begins by explaining that Detroit's problems are all of our problems, that businesspeople in Atlanta or Texas or California don't make any distinction between Belleville and Detroit when it comes to siting a business. Too long we've claimed it's either "their problem" or "their fault" and it isn't helping. So you have to think of bold things to change that.

You ask what Detroit can bring to the table and I'm giving you some examples. Like I said, I don't expect a smile to appear across your face and for you to say, "Oh, OK then." It's just the beginning of an inventory.

As for the negatives, we have to find a way to point out that these are beginning to affect all of us. How much longer can we all run our own separate school boards, separate fire departments, separate departments of inspection, separate school boards, separate administrations, all while lacking a regional vision? The way we are doing it is a recipe for regional failure. So we have look at so-called "blighted areas" as having good bones for redevelopment, fading streetcar corridors as tailor-made for fresh transit, and light rail lines as prime movers of urban development as well as job creators.

A healthy central city benefits the region. This may take more than a decade or two to explain properly, but it could be a path out of our current tailspin.

The last time we had a vision in Detroit started in the 1910s, and it was a vision of people leaving the city to rush to new development in the suburbs. And our regional vision hasn't changed since then. What has 100 years of this brought us? A few prosperous communities in Oakland County, and the rest of the area either hanging on or slipping down. Is this sustainable? Is this what we want to keep on doing? At a certain point, you have to have a new vision that's well-suited to the 21st century. But we all have to do it together if it's going to work.

So Detroit gives bikability and suburbanites give their tax dollars?

Actually, the suburban environments are not shining piles of assets with low operating costs. The suburbs have their own problems: Very spread out, undercapitalized, infrastructure that's expensive to maintain, and it's in the midst of a housing crash and in the shadow of a coming commercial real estate crash. Add in volatile fuel prices, changing tastes that are beginning to favor urban environments, the brain drain and increasing administrative costs and you see that we ALL have our challenges to deal with. And the only way to effectively deal with them is as a region, not as a bunch of fractured governments.

once again you will never convince any suburbanites to take on the problems of Detroit without them [[the suburbanites) being 100% sure that Detroit politicians and its idiotic voting citizenry[[aka kwame part II and mon con) have little or no say in the matter.

Alright, you're probably not going to make a whole lot of headway by calling Detroiters idiotic, OK? As I said, it would take a lot of education, legal wrangling, pressure on Lansing and a concerted effort to pursue good government.

Before you disagree with me quick question--How would you convince a father of four in macomb county to vote yes on such a matter because bikability walkability and a corrupt water department just ain't gonna cut it

I don't think I'm disagreeing with you so much as you don't get my drift. What is the future going to look like for Macomb? Let's say fuel prices shatter their old record. How is he going to pay for four cars for his family? How is he going to afford to put his parents in a nursing home? How will he pay to heat that monstrous house? How will he pay his underwater mortgage and association fees? How will he manage to keep his four children in the area when they want to go where they can enjoy an urban lifestyle or just want a good job? How will he manage to juggle all these problems while taxes rise or services are cut? When the county can't afford to maintain the roads?

Like it or not, the metropolitan regions that have the healthiest economies are metropolitan regions that have a working central city, desirable suburban environments, and a greenbelt of farmland or state land or other natural barriers. You have a diversity of environments, all of them get funding, and all of them do their job well. Take a look at other cities around the country that have grown by annexation and you'll find they are healthier than metro Detroit. Maybe it won't happen tomorrow morning or the next day or next week or next year, but eventually, we will reach a tipping point. I believe the light rail project will provide a good example of what investing in a central city can do. Let's take it from there.

[Hermod]

Only way to make it work would be to severely limit any Detroit power either from existing politicians or in the form of a voting majority. May sound unfair but that's the only way suburbanites would go for it.

Can you imagine how horrible suburban schools would be if the powers that be in Detroit got their hands on them?

The enrollment for catholic schools would shoot up 1000% over night if that were to happen

Hermod love your ideas but Detroit's voting power has to be severely limited for any of them to happen

If the aldermanic districts were limited to 80,000 as proposed, Detroit would have ten of fifty districts in the new city government. They would be a significant voting bloc, but could easily be outvoted by the burbs.

[Hermod]

It seems pretty simple to me. If you extend Detroit out to M-59, I-275 and Trenton, you have a few million more people voting. These people now have a stake in the entire region, not just their home municipality. A few more million people voting means better educated voters, a broader base of voters and, in all likelihood, better government and less grandstanding and scapegoating. Do you believe that if Dearborn, Novi, Wixom, Sterling Heights, Mount Clemens, Royal Oak, Ferndale, Clawson, Berkeley, Bingham Farms, Monroe, Taylor, Hazel Park, Romulus, Northville, Belleville, Southfield, Detroit, Lincoln Park, Grosse Ile and Warren were all voting that they would just happen to pick the same old kleptocrats? That's part of the point, not a sticking point.

No, annexing new land to the city will be fought tooth and nail by the people in areas you wish to "occupy" and "loot" for their resources [[taxes) to support the existing kleptocracy. The Detroit city government needs to be dug out root and branch and its existence terminated. Detroit city employees can then apply for and compete for comparable jobs in the new city organization. All of Detroit government including both politicians, civil service, police, and fire need to be eliminated as going concerns.

[lincoln8740]

No, annexing new land to the city will be fought tooth and nail by the people in areas you wish to "occupy" and "loot" for their resources [[taxes) to support the existing kleptocracy. The Detroit city government needs to be dug out root and branch and its existence terminated. Detroit city employees can then apply for and compete for comparable jobs in the new city organization. All of Detroit government including both politicians, civil service, police, and fire need to be eliminated as going concerns.

Now that is how you get consolidation accomplished!!!

excellent post

[hudkina]

Detroit city government [[along with the suburban municipal governments) would be DESTROYED by the creation of a regional government. What part about that don't you people understand. There wouldn't be a "Detroit city council" or a "Detroit mayor" or anything specifically related to Detroit's current government structure. Also, while the current government structure of Detroit would be eliminated, it would only make sense to place the regional government offices Downtown. While every district would have a local "city hall" the most important regional governing bodies would be located within Downtown.

Not only that, but even if 10 districts were created out of Detroit's current boundaries, they would only account for 20% of the regional voting bloc. That means that suburbanites would control 80% of the votes in a regional government. Also, there's a pretty good chance that many areas of Detroit would be combined with suburban districts. For example, the Grosse Pointes only have about 50,000 people. That means that the "Grosse Pointe" district would likely include a large chunk of Detroit's Far East Side, [[Morningside, East English Village, Chandler Park, Balduck Park, etc.), though it could claim a large portion of St. Clair Shores as well. The "Hamtramck" District would include the 25,000 people in Hamtramck plus another 55,000 people in the surrounding Detroit neighborhoods.

The reality is that under a regional government, the power as a whole will be far more moderate, even verging on the side of conservatism. The reality is that under a regional government, it's the inner-city that will likely have the short end of the stick as far as political clout.

Also, the idea is that by creating one regional government people won't have anywhere to move besides the "city". While there will always be the people who move out to Brighton, Lapeer, Monroe and other exurban nodes, the vast majority of people will continue to live where they currently live and without any hangups. They will have no problem with a regional government especially if they pay lower taxes than they would under the status quo. A regional government isn't going to automatically bring blight into the suburbs. People won't notice any difference as far as everyday living.

[canuck]

OK Detroit civic administration may have a history of corruption but that happens in so many cities
rich and poor, big and small that it acts as one more reason for the status quo. There will always be corrupt officials, the departure of a sizable part of the community is bound to affect the oversight of many issues. Montreal has had its share of Kwames in the past little while.

Detroit is under siege like no other american city and it is not fair to pinpoint one or two reasons for its current situation. But certainly, the resulting ghettoization of Detroit proper versus the suburbs is just a later manifestation of the inner city's ghetto neighborhoods of yore. In other words the ghetto just got bigger until the city of Detroit became the prize ghetto.

Where were the allies of black elected city leaders on a regional state or federal level 40 or even 20 years ago? I agree with some of you that Detroit needs to solve its problems alone. But then hand in your Wings sweaters and your Tigers caps if you cant root for what is essentially your city. Nobody knows about Bloomfield Hills outside Detroit but they do know about Detroit worldwide.
It is probably more polite and less redundant to speak of Detroit as Disintegrated rather than segregated.

So a unified metro Detroit negotiating a mass transit tender for 4 million people is a lot more substantial. Metro could then dictate to whatever company a specified percentage of content and there are plenty of industrial buildings in the city to easily accomodate rolling stock and locomotive works.

You can multiply this effect over a number of concerns. Attracting the new environmental and energy industries is another card for Detroit. But what I am looking forward to is the master plan that the Kresge foundation is preparing for mayor Bing. I am hoping that it wont be timid and outdated.

[Novine]

I'm not surprised no one was able to answer my question - "what legislators or groups are going to be pushing for such a change?"

The answer - none of them. That's the reality of the situation. No one is going to push for the regional government proposal that so many of you are pushing. If people want to discuss it, more power to you. But who really thinks that this has any more chance of happening than Geoffrey Feiger does of getting elected Governor of Michigan?

[iheartthed]

I'm not surprised no one was able to answer my question - "what legislators or groups are going to be pushing for such a change?"

The answer - none of them. That's the reality of the situation. No one is going to push for the regional government proposal that so many of you are pushing. If people want to discuss it, more power to you. But who really thinks that this has any more chance of happening than Geoffrey Feiger does of getting elected Governor of Michigan?

I guess you could get the ball rolling by asking what happens to a bankrupt Detroit?

Say, hypothetically, that GM took the mayor of Warren up on his offer to relocate there. That would have seen the largest private taxpayer in the city leave. And that would possibly leave Detroit in a situation where it is impossible for the city to cover its bills. What happens to Detroit's obligations in such a scenario?

Sure the state could send in emergency appointees to rearrange the finances, but you can only chop so far until you hit the bone. Then what happens? Wouldn't the state taxpayer be on the hook for what Detroit cannot cover? Is that what is meant by everyone having a horse in the race that is Detroit?

[Novine]

The Detroit schools are effectively bankrupt. But even with everything given to Mr. Bobb to reform the schools, there's been zero talk of anyone stepping in the rescue the schools financially. Why would it be any different for the city?

[SpartanTom]

I'm not surprised no one was able to answer my question - "what legislators or groups are going to be pushing for such a change?"

The answer - none of them. That's the reality of the situation. No one is going to push for the regional government proposal that so many of you are pushing. If people want to discuss it, more power to you. But who really thinks that this has any more chance of happening than Geoffrey Feiger does of getting elected Governor of Michigan?

Governor/Mayor of Detroit would likely be in favor if push comes to shove.

[detourdetroit]

a detroit delegation could do this... isn't like half the legislature going to be new? it's a great "liberative" [[liberal and conservative) issue... progressive thinking, less government.

[hudkina]

A politician will favor whatever he thinks his constituents want. If enough people in the Tri-County area favor a proposed unigov system, then the politicians will back such a proposal. Granted, there are ways to motivate people, such as the state government ending any revenue sharing to communities that don't comply.

[Novine]

"Granted, there are ways to motivate people, such as the state government ending any revenue sharing to communities that don't comply."

You mean the state legislature? Who in the state legislature is going to push to end state revenue sharing for governments that don't support a consolidated government? This won't happen because there's no constituency to make it happen.

[hudkina]

Actually, I believe it is the Treasury that distributes the money and the Executive branch controls the Treasury.

[Detroitnerd]

No, annexing new land to the city will be fought tooth and nail by the people in areas you wish to "occupy" and "loot" for their resources [[taxes) to support the existing kleptocracy. The Detroit city government needs to be dug out root and branch and its existence terminated. Detroit city employees can then apply for and compete for comparable jobs in the new city organization. All of Detroit government including both politicians, civil service, police, and fire need to be eliminated as going concerns.

I don't understand why posters on this thread assume that it wouldn't be a good, long process of educating everybody involved and getting approval. Umm ... I think I've said it almost a half-dozen times, I am not talking about a hostile takeover. The state constitution is pretty clear that all sides have to have almost complete agreement with any proposed annexation. And I am no fan of Detroit's kleptocracy. How do you get rid of it? More democracy not less. What's up, Hermod? Medication kicking in a little slowly today?

[Novine]

"Actually, I believe it is the Treasury that distributes the money and the Executive branch controls the Treasury."

That's like saying the Treasury prints the money and Congress has no say how it's doled out. State revenue sharing is set in law, approved by the State Legislature and administered by the Executive Branch. No change in state revenue sharing is going to happen without the approval of the State House and Senate and Governor.

[hudkina]

Regardless of the means, the only way it will happen is to get the people behind such an act. While minds wouldn't be changed overnight, it's not impossible to convince a large portion of the people to consolidate regional governance. It's not nearly as impossible as you think...

[Hermod]

"Actually, I believe it is the Treasury that distributes the money and the Executive branch controls the Treasury."

That's like saying the Treasury prints the money and Congress has no say how it's doled out. State revenue sharing is set in law, approved by the State Legislature and administered by the Executive Branch. No change in state revenue sharing is going to happen without the approval of the State House and Senate and Governor.

I think there was a Supreme Court decision on this some years back [[70s or 80s) that the executive branch cannot "sequester" funds voted by the legislative branch, but must spend them as appropriated.

[Hermod]

I don't understand why posters on this thread assume that it wouldn't be a good, long process of educating everybody involved and getting approval. Umm ... I think I've said it almost a half-dozen times, I am not talking about a hostile takeover. The state constitution is pretty clear that all sides have to have almost complete agreement with any proposed annexation. And I am no fan of Detroit's kleptocracy. How do you get rid of it? More democracy not less. What's up, Hermod? Medication kicking in a little slowly today?

Democracy won't get rid of entrenched incompetence and criminality. You just need to eliminate the government entity in its entirety. When I worked for the feds, we had an agency in Kentucky that was totally worthless. They were protected by a congressman on a powerful committee [[I think the deputy in the agency was the congress critters brother-in-law). When the first BRAC came up, the BRAC investigators asked my boss how many people it would take to do their job if they were moved to another location. My boss said "three" [[ the agency had 70 positions some of which were very high grade). The agency was gone in the BRAC which was an up-and-down vote and the congress critter couldn't stop it.

That i9s the way you do it. The new "Motor City" police force will handle all law enforcement. Existing sheriff's deputies and local police may apply for jobs with the new agency.

[canuck]

If you examine all these posts you will find that there are two solutions; one, a forced merger of some kind and two, a people induced movement towards consolidation. Like all matters political, forced anything is a sign of either courage or suicidal tendency for the prime mover.
I am pretty sure some kind of imposed merger will happen to stop the degradation of Detroit. If the region doesnt get it; then the federal govt should step in and mandate a commission to examine this and help resolve the metro region question. This would avoid ugly infighting, and reward people who are serious about a better region. The spotlight would be on Detroit's leaders, and this would dispell the negative fears of trusteeship. Regional leaders would have to get in on the act and therefore take responsibility for planning. The detractors and naysayers would eventually be rooted out, because the only avenue for change will come from the perceived movers and shakers.

Steely Dan©
I.G.Y.
Standing tough under stars and stripes
We can tell
This dream's in sight
You've got to admit it
At this point in time that it's clear
The future looks bright
On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from New York to Paris
Well by seventy-six we'll be A.O.K.

What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free

Get your ticket to that wheel in space
While there's time
The fix is in
You'll be a witness to that game of chance in the sky
You know we've got to win
Here at home we'll play in the city
Powered by the sun
Perfect weather for a streamlined world
There'll be spandex jackets one for everyone

What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free

On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from New York to Paris
[[More leisure for artists everywhere)
A just machine to make big decisions
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision
We'll be clean when their work is done
We'll be eternally free yes and eternally young

What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free