IT firm coming to 1001 Woodward

**MotownSpartan** · April-21-10, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

What on Earth is wrong with a call center job? Are fully employed doctors, engineers, and corporate CEOs going to willingly jump to a call center job? No. People who make less than a call center pays [[i.e., the unemployed/ underemployed) will take call center jobs. It is absurdly arrogant for anyone who cares about a city with catastrophic unemployment [[several generations of some families have not worked), and literally thousands of empty buildings to look down on any job.

Here in New York, last year a plan was killed to convert an old armory into a shopping center, largely because the developer wouldn't commit to paying everyone who worked there $10/hr. So, in that vacant eyesore in the South Bronx- with neighborhood unemployment over 40%- will remain vacant in the name of protecting people who make no money whatsoever from making $8/hr.

Note to everyone who favors "living wage" laws and other such nonsense, YOU NEED A BOTTOM RUNG ON A LADDER IN ORDER TO CLIMB IT. Let's not look down on jobs!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with call center jobs. The question is, with limited public resources, do we choose to use millions of dollars of tax abatements attracting call center jobs or should we focus our limited resources on attracting jobs that provide a true living/middle class wage to our area? We are essentially foregoing millions of dollars in tax revenue to bring this company in, would it be better to use this money to bring in the types of companies that will reverse the brain drain and change the perception/workforce in this area in a positive way? Maybe GalaxE will do this, I don't know, I am just concerned about using these large tax breaks, especially when it's unclear exactly what types of companies are getting these breaks.

edit: What is especially troublesome is that companies providing good paying jobs that attract the types of people who will change perceptions of our region may be paying full tax rates and essentially subsidizing less deserving companies who are only in this region for the handouts they get from MEGA, DEGC, etc.

**ndavies** · April-21-10, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitZack

Great news for downtown! I wonder how occupied 1001 Woodward currently is.

It's empty or pretty close to empty.

**ndavies** · April-21-10, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

There is absolutely nothing wrong with call center jobs. The question is, with limited public resources, do we choose to use millions of dollars of tax abatements attracting call center jobs or should we focus our limited resources on attracting jobs that provide a true living/middle class wage to our area? We are essentially foregoing millions of dollars in tax revenue to bring this company in, would it be better to use this money to bring in the types of companies that will reverse the brain drain and change the perception/workforce in this area in a positive way? Maybe GalaxE will do this, I don't know, I am just concerned about using these large tax breaks, especially when it's unclear exactly what types of companies are getting these breaks.

At this point we're giving tax abatements to any established business willing to bring new jobs to the city.

If the choice was between call center jobs and engineering or banking jobs, I'd say forget the call centers. However if the choice is between call center jobs and nothing, I'll take the call center jobs.

**MotownSpartan** · April-21-10, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

At this point we're giving tax abatements to any established business willing to bring new jobs to the city.

If the choice was between call center jobs and engineering or banking jobs, I'd say forget the call centers. However if the choice is between call center jobs and nothing, I'll take the call center jobs.

I'll take any job we can get but I'd rather not give away tax dollars for call center jobs when our schools, police force, etc. are all suffering and in need of money. Now, if we're giving tax abatements to attract the next Google or Apple or electric battery company, that may be different.

**ndavies** · April-21-10, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

I'll take any job we can get but I'd rather not give away tax dollars for call center jobs when our schools, police force, etc. are all suffering and in need of money. Now, if we're giving tax abatements to attract the next Google or Apple or electric battery company, that may be different.

Sorry, Detroit is in a place that the only way you're going to get businesses to move here is by giving them the tax breaks. So the choice is we get a little tax from the employees and thier spin off business, or nothing at all due to the company not moving here.

We should be fixing the cities issues, so we don't have to give special breaks to get companies to move here. The tax breaks are a symptom of not having a competitive business creation environment.

You wouldn't need the special tax breaks if the city bureaucracy functioned, the schools worked and crime was low. Taxes wouldn't be such an issue, If people thought they were getting what they were paying for. All they see in Detroit is high taxes with no results.

**kryptonite** · April-21-10, 09:33 AM

Ndavies, I totally agree. Great cities happen to be large employment centers first. Detroit was exactly that in the 1940's and 50's. But by the mid-60's the decline in manufacturing began and little if anything replaced those jobs.

Any tax abatements given to attract or retain jobs are essential, at least in my opinion. Detroit does not have a warm climate to tout or much in the way of natural scenery. Plus our urban problems are horrendous. The only solution to our economic demise is to try to bring in new jobs because maintaining our current employment base of auto/auto suppliers is exceedingly difficult and likely to only worsen. IT jobs, entertainment jobs, hospitality jobs, pharmaceutical jobs, alternative energy jobs, etc. are the types of employment that MI and Detroit need to bring to the region. A diversified economy weathers economic downturns better as a rule., not always, but as a rule.

**esp1986** · April-21-10, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

Sorry, Detroit is in a place that the only way you're going to get businesses to move here is by giving them the tax breaks. So the choice is we get a little tax from the employees and thier spin off business, or nothing at all due to the company not moving here.

We should be fixing the cities issues, so we don't have to give special breaks to get companies to move here. The tax breaks are a symptom of not having a competitive business creation environment.

You wouldn't need the special tax breaks if the city bureaucracy functioned, the schools worked and crime was low. Taxes wouldn't be such an issue, If people thought they were getting what they were paying for. All they see in Detroit is high taxes with no results.

These tax breaks are actually not all bad. Consider the lost tax revenue from the breaks. If the companies didn't get the breaks, they wouldn't be coming here anyways. You can then take into consideration the additional revenue from the individuals working for the firm. But, perhaps an even bigger kicker here, is the indirect tax revenue that would come from other nearby businesses and their employees. Additional people working downtown means more people spending money there, which means more taxable profits from other businesses in the area. So these tax breaks actually do more than most people notice, as most people overlook the indirect jobs these breaks create.

The good news is, that a lot of these credits have hiring benchmark thresholds, that if they are not met, or other things don't happen, they don't get the credits. Such is the case with Quicken... if they don't begin construction on a new headquarters building by 2013 they lose out on their credits.

**iheartthed** · April-21-10, 03:20 PM

Does no one else see the irony of a company based in India operating a call center in Detroit?

**esp1986** · April-21-10, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Does no one else see the irony of a company based in India operating a call center in Detroit?

India is typically where they outsource the low income call center jobs... yeah, yeah.

**ndavies** · April-21-10, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Does no one else see the irony of a company based in India operating a call center in Detroit?

No irony here. Considering they're not opening a call center and unless New Jersey was outsourced to India, the company is not Indian. [[You really should read the article and not the rampant speculation here.)

**iheartthed** · April-21-10, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by ndavies

No irony here. Considering they're not opening a call center and unless New Jersey was outsourced to India, the company is not Indian. [[You really should read the article and not the rampant speculation here.)

Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&so...laxe+solutions

It appears they have a figure head office in New Jersey. That is typical of these software outsourcing firms who maintain the majority of their operations overseas.

ETA: Not to imply that I believe this will be a call center. Frankly, I have no idea what they plant to do there. But I'm having the LOLz at the thought of an Indian company with a call center in Detroit.

**DLife** · April-21-10, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

There was an article in the Detroit News or Crain's back in the 90's about that very thing. That only approximately 40% of estimated jobs ever materialize when these announcements are made.

Still, even if this company only brings 100-200 jobs here that's good news. Particularly considering they are technology related jobs, not automotive jobs - which are the types of jobs Michigan is going to need to attract to diversify the economy here.

I think 40% is generous--the actual numbers are much lower. I think a better long term plan is an overall competitive tax plan to attract jobs to MI.

**Gistok** · April-21-10, 05:19 PM

Article Quote.... "The new jobs will pay $63,000 a year on average, Bryan said. Some positions require a college education, but the company is willing to train candidates familiar with software development, he added."

The article mentions "software development" jobs... so why are some of you even arguing over "call center" jobs?...

**Jimaz** · April-21-10, 05:30 PM

Hope and Cynicism argue like an old married couple. It's traditional.

**davewindsor** · April-21-10, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by ndavies

Sorry, Detroit is in a place that the only way you're going to get businesses to move here is by giving them the tax breaks. So the choice is we get a little tax from the employees and thier spin off business, or nothing at all due to the company not moving here.

We should be fixing the cities issues, so we don't have to give special breaks to get companies to move here. The tax breaks are a symptom of not having a competitive business creation environment.

You wouldn't need the special tax breaks if the city bureaucracy functioned, the schools worked and crime was low. Taxes wouldn't be such an issue, If people thought they were getting what they were paying for. All they see in Detroit is high taxes with no results.

I agree with your point about fixing city issues. If the tax abatements they got made a difference, we'd see 20 IT?software companies moving to downtown from out of State, not one in how many years filling only two floors of a small highrise?

**MotownSpartan** · April-22-10, 02:50 PM

http://metromodemedia.com/innovation...firms0160.aspx

"PSCU Holding Services will sink $12 million into expanding its software development, sales and technology-based call center and related support services in Auburn Hills. The financial service provider for credit unions plans to create 837 new jobs there over the next five years. To make this happen, the MEDC has given PSCU a $3.5 million tax credit [[the city of Auburn Hills is considering one, too) so it would make this investment in Michigan instead of competing sites in Florida and Arizona."

As you can see, the MEDC is not above giving tax breaks out for call centers. Again, I don't know the answer to this question but I wonder how the jobs at GalaXe will stack up - are they "call center" software development jobs/ business support jobs or true software development jobs? If they are true software development jobs, it seems people will probably need some sort of higher education; if they are more call center based jobs, on the spot training will do. Are these jobs of the level of quality of the nearby Compuware jobs and/or will they bring in the higher income white collar workers to the extent that even Quicken proposes? I think these are questions that should be answered, especially given that millions of dollars in tax breaks are being given out to this company.

**OriginalG313** · May-04-10, 09:38 AM

I came across this link while doing a little surfing.

http://www.galaxesolutions.com/html/news/index.html#10

**esp1986** · May-04-10, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by OriginalG313

I came across this link while doing a little surfing.

http://www.galaxesolutions.com/html/news/index.html#10

Based on the Channel 4 Vid, it sounds like the jobs are based around digitizing medical records. If that's the case, these are not entirely call center jobs. Not that they are computer programming jobs, but they do take more training than a call center job.

Also given the fact that they are starting with 50 people occupying 2 floors of 1001 Woodward, it doesn't lead one to believe that it would be a call center... a call center would be pretty well staffed from the beginning. The initial 50 people are probably setting up shop to do the recruiting and training.

**MotownSpartan** · May-04-10, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Based on the Channel 4 Vid, it sounds like the jobs are based around digitizing medical records. If that's the case, these are not entirely call center jobs. Not that they are computer programming jobs, but they do take more training than a call center job.

Also given the fact that they are starting with 50 people occupying 2 floors of 1001 Woodward, it doesn't lead one to believe that it would be a call center... a call center would be pretty well staffed from the beginning. The initial 50 people are probably setting up shop to do the recruiting and training.

From your description, it sounds like these are data entry/processing jobs.

**esp1986** · May-04-10, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

From your description, it sounds like these are data entry/processing jobs.

It does sound like that. But that takes more training than a call center job, and thus a slightly higher wage. I got that from the video. It said that is what a large number of the positions would entail, but thats not to say there won't be any programming jobs, should they have clients in the area. They do seem very optimistic that they will reach employment benchmarks, provided growth continues as projected. As with all of these though, time will tell. Either way, the silver lining in all of this, is more people in 1001 Woodward, with the possibility that more will follow as Quicken and other Dan Gilbert entities relocate downtown.

**OriginalG313** · May-04-10, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

From your description, it sounds like these are data entry/processing jobs.

MotownSpartan,
You really are questioning these jobs.

Let me just say I was trained as a data entry/processor in the late 70s. Once upon a time â€œtraineeâ€ positions for computer jobs were the norm. You could actually find them listed in the classified. Whatâ€™s wrong with trainee positions? Iâ€™m currently one of those white collar high tech employees you have referred to. And, I live in the city. My brother was hired as a computer operator trainee also in the 70s. And, he has had a very successful and lucrative career in computer operations. Actually, he was able to retire early.

How many white collar high tech employees who work downtown actually live in Detroit? Or, letâ€™s narrow it down to the employees who work in the Compuware building? Doesnâ€™t Compuware promote van pools? Yeah, I bet the majority of the employees get their paychecks, get into their van pools, and leave the city. Perhaps the jobs being offered by Galaxe Solutions will give Detroiters the opportunity I was given so many years ago. And, perhaps those employees will want to live and invest in the city.

Dang, sometimes thereâ€™s more optimism and less skepticism on a Lions forum than it is on this forum.

**kryptonite** · May-04-10, 12:51 PM

Really Originalg313, you're right - piss and moan piss and moan, jobs coming to Downtown, whine whine - and moving into an almost vacant building, such bad news, such bad news. Ask the owners of 1001 Woodward if THEY think it's bad. Ask the owners of a few shops near 1001 if THEY think it's bad. Most likely they will be thrilled. Where the newly employed people actually live is not the important issue, the issue is that some fair number of jobs will be coming to Downtown, or even to MI for that matter.

And $60,000 is more than I currently earn. But I guess some people want to crab about that being a pitiful salary.

**OriginalG313** · May-04-10, 12:59 PM

Yeah, $60,000 is more than I currently earn, too.

**Jimaz** · May-04-10, 01:27 PM

The other, Fox, video on that web page called it a software development facility.

**MotownSpartan** · May-05-10, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

Really Originalg313, you're right - piss and moan piss and moan, jobs coming to Downtown, whine whine - and moving into an almost vacant building, such bad news, such bad news. Ask the owners of 1001 Woodward if THEY think it's bad. Ask the owners of a few shops near 1001 if THEY think it's bad. Most likely they will be thrilled. Where the newly employed people actually live is not the important issue, the issue is that some fair number of jobs will be coming to Downtown, or even to MI for that matter.

And $60,000 is more than I currently earn. But I guess some people want to crab about that being a pitiful salary.

I think you're getting my comments wrong. I am in no way complaining about "jobs coming downtown." I've only questioned the millions of dollars our state/city gives away in tax breaks and said that we need more transperancy in that process. No one has been able to answer my questions about exactly what type of jobs these are - yet our public officials are giving away tax dollars to this company. I don't know that most people would agree that millions of dollars in tax giveaways are best used luring data entry jobs to our state... these are not the jobs that will transform our region. If this company was moving downtown without public dollars behind it, this would be different. This is especially true in light of our failing public schools and lack of money to fund the police force, etc. The city/state do not have unlimited resources.

A great example of the lack of transperancy is the 60k figure, as I mentioned previously, this could mean that the vast majority of workers are earning extremely low salaries with one higher paid white collar worker that brings the average up. I'm all for "bringing jobs downtown" - but in a state/city with such severe budget issues we have to be careful about how spend money and prioritize projects. Dollars given away for data entry jobs means we may not have dollars to lure high-tech green jobs, or other "creative class" jobs - the jobs that will make the most impact in terms of transforming our city and region.