Dateline NBC Special on Detroit

[Savoyard]

Trace it all back to the PBB contamination of the early 1970s.

Trace it back to the introduction of fluoride in the public drinking water system. It was first started in 1875, and today not one single person from that time period is still alive!

[Savoyard]

I'm so glad to hear someone else say this. I have taught in DPS for 12 years so many of my former students begin at a Detroit school but then they transfer to a charter or a suburban school and the graduate from their. When I ever I mention this people they either ignore me say, I'm wrong or they just don't understand. Yes DPS has a bad graduation rate but I refuse to believe it's THAT bad SOMEBODY OUT THERE NEEDS TO SOME KIND OF RESEARCH ON THIS ISSUE. I think thousands of Detroit children begin 9th grade in a DPS school but by the 12th many do graduate but from some place else.

Don't mean to be rude, but this response is either a joke or an outstanding example of what's wrong with DPS. Punctuation and grammar issues plus mis-spellings [[PLUS THE USE OF ALL CAPS) indicates there's an issue with DPS that needs to be addressed.

[pffft]

I'm sorry to have to agree...

That is not the kind of English usage I would want my child's teacher to display in a note, no matter how casually written.

[ferntruth]

While I agree that they likely aren't academics... Why should they be cut any slack for their own ignorance? I don't go around engaging in discussions about nuclear physics, because I don't know a damn thing about it. If I did do that someone more knowledgeable about the subject would probably be glad to hand me a verbal spanking.

If people only commented on the subjects they are knowledgeable in, the silence would be deafening!

[ferntruth]

Dishonest employees as a rule steal much more than customers, some of the data I've seen had it at over seven times the amount.

Ok, companies need customers AND employees who don't steal. The point is still valid.

[ferntruth]

Trace it back to the introduction of fluoride in the public drinking water system. It was first started in 1875, and today not one single person from that time period is still alive!

LOL...very nice.

[Savoyard]

LOL...very nice.

Forgot to mention ... This was a comment from Pat Paulson when he ran for President. Those who aren't old enough to remember will have to look it up.

[313WX]

I'm so glad to hear someone else say this. I have taught in DPS for 12 years so many of my former students begin at a Detroit school but then they transfer to a charter or a suburban school and the graduate from their. When I ever I mention this people they either ignore me say, I'm wrong or they just don't understand. Yes DPS has a bad graduation rate but I refuse to believe it's THAT bad SOMEBODY OUT THERE NEEDS TO SOME KIND OF RESEARCH ON THIS ISSUE. I think thousands of Detroit children begin 9th grade in a DPS school but by the 12th many do graduate but from some place else.

Just out of curiousity, what subject do you teach?

[ndavies]

I'm so glad to hear someone else say this. I have taught in DPS for 12 years so many of my former students begin at a Detroit school but then they transfer to a charter or a suburban school and the graduate from their. When I ever I mention this people they either ignore me say, I'm wrong or they just don't understand. Yes DPS has a bad graduation rate but I refuse to believe it's THAT bad SOMEBODY OUT THERE NEEDS TO SOME KIND OF RESEARCH ON THIS ISSUE. I think thousands of Detroit children begin 9th grade in a DPS school but by the 12th many do graduate but from some place else.

Sorry, they're ignoring you because you're deluding yourself. The number of students leaving the district to graduate somewhere else is directly related to the poor performance of Detroit schools. Obviously, the students who left to go to other school systems and charters didn't believe they could get a good education from the Detroit system. Therefore they left the school district.

Even when people move they will do just about anything to keep their children in a high performing school district. Good school districts used to have many non-residents "living with " family members so they could continue to go to their old school system.

If you had a good school system the number of people entering the system after first grade would balance out the number of people leaving before graduation.

The graduation rates are calculated the same for all school systems, Why don't other Michigan school systems rate as badly as Detroit schools do? They all play by the same calculation.

[tallboy66]

Dishonest employees as a rule steal much more than customers, some of the data I've seen had it at over seven times the amount.

Not only that but the way the corporations have to cover their asses and dispose of good food in a way that people can't take it to eat, such as locked containers as to not get sued.

Ever go by Eastern Market at 3pm boxes and stacks of crates FULL of produce that didn't get sold just being thrown away.

And a side note since they are using space for gardening which, just watch, some developer will use imminent domain or some dumb law to get those parcels developed but not while it sits vacant.

Why don't they put up solar panels in the empty blocks of land to help with the rolling blackouts.

[ndavies]

Why don't they put up solar panels in the empty blocks of land to help with the rolling blackouts.

What rolling blackouts? DTE has plenty of capacity to meet our current energy needs. Whose going to pay for expensive solar panels? Those solar panel wouldn't last. They'd be scrapped outta there within 24 hours.

[Zacha341]

Make that within 12 hours... LOL! "Scrapping": Employment for the new frontier!

What rolling blackouts? DTE has plenty of capacity to meet our current energy needs. Whose going to pay for expensive solar panels? Those solar panel wouldn't last. They'd be scrapped outta there within 24 hours.

[wilderness]

Don't mean to be rude, but this response is either a joke or an outstanding example of what's wrong with DPS. Punctuation and grammar issues plus mis-spellings [[PLUS THE USE OF ALL CAPS) indicates there's an issue with DPS that needs to be addressed.

I'm sorry to have to agree...

That is not the kind of English usage I would want my child's teacher to display in a note, no matter how casually written.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Revised to read:

"Let he who is without mis-spelling or typographical error cast the first stone"

This participant has been registered here for a year and has a mere 36 posts. Not exactly a volume of activity.

Perhaps a more effective method of criticism would have been provided by quoting and correcting the quoted material?
Furthermore, in the event the user has an MS OS and does not have Word or a similar WP software installed, than, there is a good "chance" that a spell checker is not an option in their browser?

If longtime participants alienate newcomers that are willing to contribute insights, than you'll reduce the efforts and/or willingness of other participants/newcomers to contribute.

[Johnlodge]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Revised to read:

"Let he who is without mis-spelling or typographical error cast the first stone"

This participant has been registered here for a year and has a mere 36 posts. Not exactly a volume of activity.

Perhaps a more effective method of criticism would have been provided by quoting and correcting the quoted material?
Furthermore, in the event the user has an MS OS and does not have Word or a similar WP software installed, than, there is a good "chance" that a spell checker is not an option in their browser?

If longtime participants alienate newcomers that are willing to contribute insights, than you'll reduce the efforts and/or willingness of other participants/newcomers to contribute.

Oh, come off it. This person should be embarrassed to present themselves in such a manner, and then admit they were paid to educate children. Sometimes you need to tell it like it is. If they want a critique on their grammar, maybe they should go back to school before trying to educate others. Let's not be so frightened of raising the standard. As in, picking it up off the absolute floor.

[Danny]

Chris Hanson has been a Former 4 news reporter since 1984 to 1993 and he has seen the violence, scandals and race bickering in the Ghettos of Detroit during his job. He has now moved on to better and better national news and has no intention to come back to Detroit to stay only to visit its urban ruins. His documentary in Detroit shows more negativity rather than positiveness, hopeless then hope. Viewers who seen Hanson's report will think that Detroit is a dead city filled with dead black people; a stereotypical futile concept after it enjoy its 'arsenal of democracy'. One Detroit black man has said to Hanson that 'the hope is gone'. Segregation, white flight, suburban development, freeways, political corruption, African American growth, people doing Satan's work and just plain FEAR! played a role of making Detroit what it is today.

When Hanson questioned Robert Bobb, Kid Rock and Mayor Dave Bing about when Detroit will get better. They would have said not for a long time. Detroit will not get any better if the people refuse to clean themselves up. We can make Detroit better if can bring regionalization, economic development, provide better schools, police force, fire depts, cleaning up city corruption and prevent violent crime. It is a simple way to save our city. We the people of Detroit need to stop hiding in their home and living like caveman. The 21st Century is here and now, it's time to develop for our suvival or die. The People of Detroit need some desperate help not from the suburbs but aslo from world. I don't want to see the city die. I don't want to see Antoine De La Mothe Cadillac's dream for a international trade city in the straights to become like ruins of Rome. Please take part and save Detroit.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Because saving Detroit takes action not happy talk for Neda Soltani's sake.

[tallboy66]

What rolling blackouts? DTE has plenty of capacity to meet our current energy needs. Whose going to pay for expensive solar panels? Those solar panel wouldn't last. They'd be scrapped outta there within 24 hours.

What! have they upgraded their energy output or did enough people leave that capacity is now at a sustainable level?
When I lived there in the WSU/cultural district they had rolling blackouts on the street lights to conserve energy because even with the incinerator they needed to shutdown periodically to be able to provide enough electricity, not to mention the people in offices having to go without air conditioning or [[if the building was old enough) to open windows to keep cool.

As far at it being scrapped out it just goes to prove the point that they will NEVER move forward without anything in the city being a fortress just so that people can have jobs or basic necessities controlled by a huge corporate entity which has proven to be the downfall of Detroit.

Nothing like the worlds largest company having to borrow money from the Gov't, or the 3rd largest at the time.

[tallboy66]

Chris Hanson has been a Former 4 news reporter since 1984 to 1993 and he has seen the violence, scandals and race bickering in the Ghettos of Detroit during his job. He has now moved on to better and better national news and has no intention to come back to Detroit to stay only to visit its urban ruins. His documentary in Detroit shows more negativity rather than positiveness, hopeless then hope. Viewers who seen Hanson's report will think that Detroit is a dead city filled with dead black people; a stereotypical futile concept after it enjoy its 'arsenal of democracy'. One Detroit black man has said to Hanson that 'the hope is gone'. Segregation, white flight, suburban development, freeways, political corruption, African American growth, people doing Satan's work and just plain FEAR! played a role of making Detroit what it is today.

When Hanson questioned Robert Bobb, Kid Rock and Mayor Dave Bing about when Detroit will get better. They would have said not for a long time. Detroit will not get any better if the people refuse to clean themselves up. We can make Detroit better if can bring regionalization, economic development, provide better schools, police force, fire depts, cleaning up city corruption and prevent violent crime. It is a simple way to save our city. We the people of Detroit need to stop hiding in their home and living like caveman. The 21st Century is here and now, it's time to develop for our suvival or die. The People of Detroit need some desperate help not from the suburbs but aslo from world. I don't want to see the city die. I don't want to see Antoine De La Mothe Cadillac's dream for a international trade city in the straights to become like ruins of Rome. Please take part and save Detroit.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Because saving Detroit takes action not happy talk for Neda Soltani's sake.

And to say it's "white flight" is even outdated in a city of 85% African Americans who exactly is leaving the city? Take a look at Southfield and Troy it's full of "black" people who left the city to have a better life.

The joke when I lived there was...

Detroit's so bad that even black people are leaving.

When the last person leaves Detroit will they please turn out the lights.

[313WX]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Revised to read:

"Let he who is without mis-spelling or typographical error cast the first stone"

This participant has been registered here for a year and has a mere 36 posts. Not exactly a volume of activity.

Perhaps a more effective method of criticism would have been provided by quoting and correcting the quoted material?
Furthermore, in the event the user has an MS OS and does not have Word or a similar WP software installed, than, there is a good "chance" that a spell checker is not an option in their browser?

If longtime participants alienate newcomers that are willing to contribute insights, than you'll reduce the efforts and/or willingness of other participants/newcomers to contribute.

Oh, come off it. This person should be embarrassed to present themselves in such a manner, and then admit they were paid to educate children. Sometimes you need to tell it like it is. If they want a critique on their grammar, maybe they should go back to school before trying to educate others. Let's not be so frightened of raising the standard. As in, picking it up off the absolute floor.

What he said.

That's the problem with our society now, we're too PC. If it looks like, smells like and feels like bullshit, then why not go ahead and call it bullshit?

[iheartthed]

What! have they upgraded their energy output or did enough people leave that capacity is now at a sustainable level?
When I lived there in the WSU/cultural district they had rolling blackouts on the street lights to conserve energy because even with the incinerator they needed to shutdown periodically to be able to provide enough electricity, not to mention the people in offices having to go without air conditioning or [[if the building was old enough) to open windows to keep cool.

As far at it being scrapped out it just goes to prove the point that they will NEVER move forward without anything in the city being a fortress just so that people can have jobs or basic necessities controlled by a huge corporate entity which has proven to be the downfall of Detroit.

Nothing like the worlds largest company having to borrow money from the Gov't, or the 3rd largest at the time.

The city streetlights aren't [[or at least they weren't) powered by DTE, they were powered by the city's public works department. Two different systems...

[ndavies]

What! have they upgraded their energy output or did enough people leave that capacity is now at a sustainable level?
When I lived there in the WSU/cultural district they had rolling blackouts on the street lights to conserve energy because even with the incinerator they needed to shutdown periodically to be able to provide enough electricity, not to mention the people in offices having to go without air conditioning or [[if the building was old enough) to open windows to keep cool.

As far at it being scrapped out it just goes to prove the point that they will NEVER move forward without anything in the city being a fortress just so that people can have jobs or basic necessities controlled by a huge corporate entity which has proven to be the downfall of Detroit.

Nothing like the worlds largest company having to borrow money from the Gov't, or the 3rd largest at the time.

Detroit street lights are powered by the Detroit city power plants, Not DTE. There was a recent report that stated the city would save a small fortune and increase reliability by shutting down it's plants and just buying the energy from DTE. You could completely eliminate the costs of the city running power plants. The people servicing the plant could be redeployed to get the city lights working. You gain by not having to upkeep an aging polution generating power plant and redeplyoing thinly stretched workers to places they could actually do some good. The city does not have the technical or monetary resources to keep a seperate power grid and plants up to modern standards.

[lafayette]

You're right ndavies, the city does have trouble running its electric system. But please don't automatically jump on the privatizing-is-always-better bandwagon. There's a reason that Hazen Pingree wrestled the electric system away from corporations and put it under the ownership of the people more than a hundred years ago. Sure, the city's situation has changed since then, but during that time the city, state and country were suffering from the fallout of the 1893 depression that rivaled the 1930's depression [[and led to Pingree's famous potato patch idea). And they still fought hard and won the right of the people to own their electric system. The rationale behind Pingree's move to make the electric grid public still applies today, despite the changes in the city since then. Find another way to improve the city's electric system other than privatization. And, yes, one could argue that DTE is a public entity because it's a state-regulated corporation, but we all know the state's regulatory system is a toothless old dog that serves the profit-making interests of the utilities, not service to individual utility users. So, DTE doesn't count as public ownership.

[Retroit]

^ But if it would be cheaper and more reliable to privatize, it would benefit the citizens which is the ultimate goal. Who cares whether it's public or private, as long as it is better for the citizens?

[lafayette]

Some benefits of public ownership extend beyond the service itself and include legal rights of redress and public access. Public services are one way that local governments build community, so if contracting causes these broader community benefits to be lost, then an important public good is also sacrificed. Potential efficiency gains through contracting must be weighed against the community-building mission of local government. Yes, cost savings are good for the city. They're just not the only thing to consider. And DTE's service has declined dramatically with disinvestment in maintenance funding as witnessed by many, many more power outages during inclement weather that just a couple decades ago wouldn't have crippled the power grid. 275 corridor residents even filed suit against DTE at one point because they were losing power right and left due to poorly maintained grid equipment servicing that area, equipment that DTE used to spend adequate money to keep working properly. It's not always the cost-saving bonanza it's described to be, either. Citizens are the first to get high costs passed down to them from DTE, supposedly a private, state-regulated corporation, right? Remember the huge outage in August 2003? DTE explicitly promised not to pass the costs of that outage and repair down to consumers, which was substantial. State regulators quietly, a couple years later, allowed them to do it anyway. There's no guarantee of hyper-efficiency of good service or fair treatment with costs.

[ndavies]

You're right ndavies, the city does have trouble running its electric system. But please don't automatically jump on the privatizing-is-always-better bandwagon. There's a reason that Hazen Pingree wrestled the electric system away from corporations and put it under the ownership of the people more than a hundred years ago. Sure, the city's situation has changed since then, but during that time the city, state and country were suffering from the fallout of the 1893 depression that rivaled the 1930's depression [[and led to Pingree's famous potato patch idea). And they still fought hard and won the right of the people to own their electric system. The rationale behind Pingree's move to make the electric grid public still applies today, despite the changes in the city since then. Find another way to improve the city's electric system other than privatization. And, yes, one could argue that DTE is a public entity because it's a state-regulated corporation, but we all know the state's regulatory system is a toothless old dog that serves the profit-making interests of the utilities, not service to individual utility users. So, DTE doesn't count as public ownership.

You've got to be kidding. So you're willing to pay more money for a system that you admit doesn't work, just so it's not privately owned. Sorry, I want my tax money spent responsibly. I don't care who provides it, as long as it's done Reliably, legally and on budget.

I see no other Detroit metro area city that can't keep it's street lights on. The only one failing is Detroit. One of only two cities that I know of in the metro area that have thier own power plants. Everyone else seems to be doing just fine on DTE's power.

Detroit has no legitimate reason to run it's own power plant. Once again it does not have technical expertise or the funds to buy the expertise to do so. It's not 1893, It's 2010.

IF DTE doesn't provide cheap reliable power the entire ecomomy will fail. The city of Detroit even with it's crappy ass power plants will fail without a strong reliable DTE.

No wonder Detroit looks like the Hell hole NBC is protraying it to be. It's the small minded we have to own everything thinking like this that made it so.

[ndavies]

Some benefits of public ownership extend beyond the service itself and include legal rights of redress and public access. Public services are one way that local governments build community, so if contracting causes these broader community benefits to be lost, then an important public good is also sacrificed. Potential efficiency gains through contracting must be weighed against the community-building mission of local government. Yes, cost savings are good for the city. They're just not the only thing to consider. And DTE's service has declined dramatically with disinvestment in maintenance funding as witnessed by many, many more power outages during inclement weather that just a couple decades ago wouldn't have crippled the power grid. 275 corridor residents even filed suit against DTE at one point because they were losing power right and left due to poorly maintained grid equipment servicing that area, equipment that DTE used to spend adequate money to keep working properly. It's not always the cost-saving bonanza it's described to be, either. Citizens are the first to get high costs passed down to them from DTE, supposedly a private, state-regulated corporation, right? Remember the huge outage in August 2003? DTE explicitly promised not to pass the costs of that outage and repair down to consumers, which was substantial. State regulators quietly, a couple years later, allowed them to do it anyway. There's no guarantee of hyper-efficiency of good service or fair treatment with costs.

Even with DTE's crappy pricing practices they are still far cheaper than what we're paying for the Cities power.

You'd rather pay far too much keeping the street lights on than using the overcharges for that energy to hire police and fire, do code enforcement or maybe improve business enticements.