Dateline NBC Special on Detroit

[313WX]

Arab, Chaldean, or mom and pop stores don't count. What Chris said was there are no chains, i.e., Kroger, Safeway, Meijer in Detroit.

I don't recall him saying chains. But even if he did, as the video progressed he made it seem as if there were no grocery stores what so ever [[other thanthe corner liquor/party stores) within Detroit city limits withe hte raccoon hunting and the people farming & the fruit & vegetable trcusk [[which all big cities have).

And hnestly, come to think of it, one would be lying when they say there are NO chain stores in Detroit. There's the super K-Mart on 8 Mile & Telegraph [[which is equivalent to a Meijer) and last I check K-Mart is still a major national retailer.

In any event, I don't logically see what the Arab/Chaldean stores don't count. Many of them sell the same food suburbanites buy at Kroger or Meijer at the same prices.

But I suppose all of that missing information makes for a great sensationalized story!

[bartock]

That's what I was thinking too.

But I can't help but wonder why an acclaimed news program like Dateline only aired another depressing, one sided story instead of presenting both sides. They didn't include a single image of downtown during the day, the beautiful hospitals and college campuses, any of the neighborhoods that are working hard to hold it together, the numerous ethnicities, or home grown non-profits that are helping to rebuild one initiative at a time.

I wonder if this piece was designed to help garner support for more private and federal aid [[not that that's a bad idea).

Did anyone else notice that the narrator said the suburban woman who was gardening was the one who started the urban gardening thing here in the city? Or did I misunderstand what he said? Cuz I know a few people who would would beg to differ with that statement.

I agree 100% with your second paragraph. I don't want to insult what happened in New Orleans, but the arial views of the East Side were Katrina-esque, and I'm glad they showed it because those areas are that desolate and in some ways I think Detroit it needs to be presented in that way. No matter how much we accentuate the positive, the real problem, in my opinion starts with the 75% drop out rate.

Someone mentioned Chris Hansen and sort of knocked it because he is from Birmingham. That's tired, and while Kid Rock's music drives me nuts [[he's now a bad, bad, bad, wannabe rip-off of Seger musically and lyrically) and he is from WAY out in Romeo [[arguably outside the suburbs, certainly was when he grew up). I doubt there are many in Boston who get angry when someone from Sommerville or Quincy says "I'm from Boston." Same thing goes for anyone in the 10 million Chicago suburbs. I know people 25 miles outside the City of Chicago that live in "Chicago." And these are city propers much closer to historical peaks than Detroit. Time for that "are you a REAL Detroiter" stuff to go away.

...and trying to put myself in an "outsiders" shoes, I thought Bing presented himself as more of an ambassador and of genuine concern than a public figure last night.

[urbanpioneer]

The piece did show the hope and positive in Detroit, but was VERY fair in pointing out the hard facts like the 50 percent illiteracy rate and that 75 percent of kids don't graduate from DPS -- true the number was a little misleading since it is actually only 25 percent of kids who start graduate on time.
What is amazing about the backlash of the piece is that folks are complaining about all the "good Detroit" things left out. These detractors ARE actually the problem. Why? Because they tend to focus on a few thing that work _ remember a broken clock is accurate twice a day _ instead of opening their eyes and being honest with themselves about why the city is violent, dirty, corrupt and dysfunctional and really try do something about it. It's like a teen-ager coming home with a report card bragging about his A in gym and B in English, but he has failed every other subject. Until more people look at the problems and say they won't tolerate it anymore, the city won't improve. Personally, I don't care how many "gems" like Avalon or Honeybee there are here- just go to any other city and you well see sadly how few "gems" Detroit has compared to any city ranging from Grand Rapids to Chicago _ what matters most is how people treat each other; how police provide protection; how people take care of their homes. NONE of this takes money. The sad reality is Detroit is basically preparing to be mothballed. THAT is really what Dave Bing's plan about downsizing is about. Let's pull up the ladder, bunker down and do the best we can with the little we get. If you look up and down the city block where you live _ I've lived here more than a decade _ ask youself how many of your neighbors are contributing members of the city or are taking from it _ in terms of disability payments, being unemployed, committing crime, allowing their home so go to pot or driving without insurance. There is no knight in shining armor. There is no new industry that will save the city. In fact the ONLY innovative large-scale idea [[TECHTOWN is very small) has been urban farming, and every viable, PROFIT-MAKING concept has been met with Red Tape from City Hall.
Maybe the Dateline story will make people wake up.

[Detroitnerd]

Article about Glernie Dean "The Coon Man" Beasley from earlier this month-- not sure if it was posted here before:

http://detnews.com/article/20090402/...-scampering-by

Before that piece was this one:

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=13618

There was an interesting debate about that story here.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=148

[R8RBOB]

"I am going by what I have read and if I understand correctly, we were in part depicted as a city of those who forage for raccoon dinners. Is that right? If so, it's typical emotional manipulation by NBC 'News'."

maxx: Is muskrat still sold at the Eastern Market? That would add a nice ethnic touch. And it would show that not everyone has to hunt their small game. lol

For the record, I haven't had any coon in over thirty years. My grandfather who was a son of Georgia gave me some when I was a kid. I saw this in the story and I'm curious to know how many residents in this day would interested in eating coon.

[R8RBOB]

Reading some of the comments from the Free Press about the Dateline special only shows that this so-called post-racial America is just words. Here are some of the comments when it refer to Blacks.

I love Detoilet because the cesspool of a city provides blacks with just enough entitlements to not want to move near me.

The facts are the facts and the truth is the truth. Detroit is a sh*thole and it all started going down hill in the 60's when the blacks got their "civil" rights.

Q. What did the black father in Detoilet get his son for Christmas?

A. Your bike

Spending most of my life around Detroit I saw what the blacks did to the city . That was the cause of white flight. When you have white flight you loose TAXES. and most of the residents that stayed were NOT contributing to the city any way. There is no pride in Detroit coming from the residents. That shows ,for them to allow the city to go the way it went.In addition the Democratic party had a great deal to do with the way the city operated. Corruption from the Govt was another big cause. I am sorry to say Detroit is not coming back because of these issues.

Congratulations Black people, you are now ALL responsible for the destruction of the great city of Detroit. Even if many of you are law-abiding tax-paying citizens who works and takes care of his or her home and the children you are at fault because you got "civil" rights and a number of rebel elements decided to go a different route.

If I didn't know better the message of the day would be "Black is bad, White is right." Only in Sarah Palin's America...LOL

[ct_alum]

Ray:

Unless I missed something, Bannon was never Chief.

BTW, Evans is not a certified P.O. and is carrying on in public with a subordinate. You might want to reconsider your "crackerjack" description, unless of course, you are describing where Grandpa got his badge....................

[Bella]

I still haven't found the full episode online. Only clips.

[DJ Tom T]

25% of kids that go to DPS don't graduate in the appropriate time...

are you kidding? anyone that looks at this and doesn't think this is PROBLEM #1 is crazy.

there is nowhere else in the world where people would stand for this. things can't get better if future generations of kids continue to get poorly educated.

[jt1]

25% of kids that go to DPS don't graduate in the appropriate time...

are you kidding? anyone that looks at this and doesn't think this is PROBLEM #1 is crazy.

there is nowhere else in the world where people would stand for this. things can't get better if future generations of kids continue to get poorly educated.

75% of kids that start in DPS don't graduate from DPS in time. Many of them transfer to other schools, districts or their families move. DPS graduation rates are certainly nothing to be proud of but this is a skewed statistic.

[DJ Tom T]

75% of kids that start in DPS don't graduate from DPS in time. Many of them transfer to other schools, districts or their families move. DPS graduation rates are certainly nothing to be proud of but this is a skewed statistic.

regardless...without education, it isn't going to happen. fix the schools first.

[xphillipjrx]

Just a sidebar, but I thought the funniest part was when they showed the three kids from Troy. Hanson mentioned how people from the burbs come to the city for drugs. He also said that the three kids were let go. I know those kids likely went home that night as if nothing happened and now they're on TV. Busted.

[dove-7]

Just a sidebar, but I thought the funniest part was when they showed the three kids from Troy. Hanson mentioned how people from the burbs come to the city for drugs. He also said that the three kids were let go. I know those kids likely went home that night as if nothing happened and now they're on TV. Busted.

And they will come back too. I wouldn't have let their asses go. I watched here on the west coast.

[dove-7]

I still haven't found the full episode online. Only clips.

http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/ki...MRity1Ais05UJA

[noenaim]

75% of kids that start in DPS don't graduate from DPS in time. Many of them transfer to other schools, districts or their families move. DPS graduation rates are certainly nothing to be proud of but this is a skewed statistic.

I'm so glad to hear someone else say this. I have taught in DPS for 12 years so many of my former students begin at a Detroit school but then they transfer to a charter or a suburban school and the graduate from their. When I ever I mention this people they either ignore me say, I'm wrong or they just don't understand. Yes DPS has a bad graduation rate but I refuse to believe it's THAT bad SOMEBODY OUT THERE NEEDS TO SOME KIND OF RESEARCH ON THIS ISSUE. I think thousands of Detroit children begin 9th grade in a DPS school but by the 12th many do graduate but from some place else.

[R8RBOB]

Just a sidebar, but I thought the funniest part was when they showed the three kids from Troy. Hanson mentioned how people from the burbs come to the city for drugs. He also said that the three kids were let go. I know those kids likely went home that night as if nothing happened and now they're on TV. Busted.

I peeped that scene last night and it reminded me of Training Day when Alonzo and Officer Hoyt pulled over the White kids buying PCP-laced weed and The Wire when Dee-Dee roded up in Hamsterdam looking to cop some dope and the dope dealer tried to chat her up.

[Bella]

http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/ki...MRity1Ais05UJA

That one is only three minutes, 15 seconds. It does have clips on the side, too, though.


I watched this from the west coast, too.

[English]

Education is my passion, but I always thought the school argument was a straw man. Most neighborhood schools in most major cities are terrible. The professional and upper classes in urban America don't send their kids to city schools. The fact that there are no good schools hasn't stopped everywhere from Manhattan to Hyde Park from gentrifying. People with means send their kids to exclusive private schools in every other major city in the North and the West, and throughout the South.

Keeping in mind everything Sugrue outlines in his opus, in my layman's opinion, the "fear of crime" hypothesis makes the most sense to me. The riots and the 1970s-early 1990s in Detroit terrified certain groups out of ever moving back. The lack of jobs and economic opportunity in the city, along with a mindset that sanctioned criminal activity as "survival of the fittest" meant that the appeal of a life of crime became a self-fulfilling prophecy for a significant minority of two generations of urban youth [[and we're working on a third!). The rest of us "urban youth" who managed to steer clear of trouble translated success in adulthood as "getting out of Detroit."

Other cities declined, but there wasn't the wholesale and widespread running and screaming one saw in Detroit. Ethnic enclaves in Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, and many other places held their ground. Ours packed up and resettled to points north and west. I don't just mean white flight, either -- this decade, a large section of the black middle class and aspirational working class has decamped as well, and are flooding into the suburbs or other places in the country.

What happened here is unique in American history... thus far. A commenter said that Detroit represents the final stage of post-industrial America. What comes next is anyone's guess.

[dove-7]

That one is only three minutes, 15 seconds. It does have clips on the side, too, though.


I watched this from the west coast, too.

You have to click on those clips. You can check to see if Hulu has it on their website. What part of the west coast do you reside in?

[Bella]

You have to click on those clips. You can check to see if Hulu has it on their website. What part of the west coast do you reside in?

I'm in Flagstaff right now.I have moved about 6,000 miles in the last couple of years.

I checked hulu last night, but it wasn't on there, yet.

[terryh]

I don't recall him saying chains. But even if he did, as the video progressed he made it seem as if there were no grocery stores what so ever [[other thanthe corner liquor/party stores) within Detroit city limits withe hte raccoon hunting and the people farming & the fruit & vegetable trcusk [[which all big cities have).

And hnestly, come to think of it, one would be lying when they say there are NO chain stores in Detroit. There's the super K-Mart on 8 Mile & Telegraph [[which is equivalent to a Meijer) and last I check K-Mart is still a major national retailer.

In any event, I don't logically see what the Arab/Chaldean stores don't count. Many of them sell the same food suburbanites buy at Kroger or Meijer at the same prices.

But I suppose all of that missing information makes for a great sensationalized story!

There are some really nice grocery stores in Southwest Detroit that sell bulk foods and ethnic pastries...I recall some decent sized markets in the 7 and Woodward area that sold Middle Eastern foods in bulk..and then there are the King Cole Markets...

[dove-7]

Education is my passion, but I always thought the school argument was a straw man. Most neighborhood schools in most major cities are terrible. The professional and upper classes in urban America don't send their kids to city schools. The fact that there are no good schools hasn't stopped everywhere from Manhattan to Hyde Park from gentrifying. People with means send their kids to exclusive private schools in every other major city in the North and the West, and throughout the South.

Keeping in mind everything Sugrue outlines in his opus, in my layman's opinion, the "fear of crime" hypothesis makes the most sense to me. The riots and the 1970s-early 1990s in Detroit terrified certain groups out of ever moving back. The lack of jobs and economic opportunity in the city, along with a mindset that sanctioned criminal activity as "survival of the fittest" meant that the appeal of a life of crime became a self-fulfilling prophecy for a significant minority of two generations of urban youth [[and we're working on a third!). The rest of us "urban youth" who managed to steer clear of trouble translated success in adulthood as "getting out of Detroit."

Other cities declined, but there wasn't the wholesale and widespread running and screaming one saw in Detroit. Ethnic enclaves in Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, and many other places held their ground. Ours packed up and resettled to points north and west. I don't just mean white flight, either -- this decade, a large section of the black middle class and aspirational working class has decamped as well, and are flooding into the suburbs or other places in the country.

What happened here is unique in American history... thus far. A commenter said that Detroit represents the final stage of post-industrial America. What comes next is anyone's guess.

Word and qft. This has been my point on this site. The advantage for me is living in different cities where I can do a compare and contrast. There are a lot of straw man arguments on here where people try to say that it's a sole issue and not multiple issues that took it's toll over the years. Chain reaction due to cause and effect is what lead to the current Detroit. Stevie Wonder is from Motown and is blind, but even he can see the realities that took Detroit down.

[English]

Before that piece was this one:

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=13618

There was an interesting debate about that story here.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=148

Thanks! Sorry for being a Janey come lately; I didn't see that thread.

[dove-7]

I'm in Flagstaff right now.I have moved about 6,000 miles in the last couple of years.

I checked hulu last night, but it wasn't on there, yet.

I see, is that here in Cali.? Checkout NBC's website, they usually put up the media the next day.

[Detroitnerd]

Thanks! Sorry for being a Janey come lately; I didn't see that thread.

No need for an apology. Just adding some info is all.