Let's regionalize Cobo so we can move forward with an expansion

[R8RBOB]

People don't "avoid`the state of Michigan because of the lack of mass transit. They avoid the state because of lack of economic opportunity. When the auto companies [[and their massive satellite of suppliers) were humming, Oakland County perennially was one of the five fastest growing counties in the US. Macomb County was not far behind. Both were growing in population much faster than the population decline of Detroit. In addition to Detroit, the northern counties and the U.P. have experienced population loss due to the decline of their extractive industries [[timber, iron ore, copper). If the auto industry comes back, southeastern Michigan will come back. Other industries will not move in because of the really bad business environment encoded in the state laws and regulations. A streetcar system in Detroit is not going to turn this around.

I put that last sentence only hyperbole purposes. I am quite aware of why people aren't coming to Michigan and it is not because of not having a light rail. Thank you for noticing it......

[Novine]

" Oakland County perennially was one of the five fastest growing counties in the US. Macomb County was not far behind. Both were growing in population much faster than the population decline of Detroit."

Not true. The population in the Detroit MSA has been stagnant for almost 40 years. As people left Detroit, they moved to the suburbs. The growth in OC and MC wasn't from attracting a lot of new people, it was from the population exodus from Detroit.

http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/popm/pm2160.htm

"A streetcar system in Detroit is not going to turn this around."

SE Michigan needs a regional transportation system that works. I'm still waiting to hear of any major American or world city that functions well without one.

[EastSider]

How many millions of dollars was Cobo draining from the city's general fund every year? Wasn't it between $10 and $15 million? The regional boogey men that have JT1's grapes in a bunch can do what they want with it, for all I care. I'm glad it's off the city's books.

[313WX]

I'm still waiting to hear of any major American or world city that functions well without one.

It depends on who you ask.

A good majority of the people here would say we function just fine without a mass transit system [[or the bus system is enough).

[313WX]

Why can't there be a 2.00 bus ride?

TECHNICALLY, there is a roughly $2 bus ride from Metro to Downtown [[SMART *Route 125 Fort St.* Bus)

[Novine]

"A good majority of the people here would say we function just fine without a mass transit system [[or the bus system is enough)."

If they do, it's against all evidence to the contrary.

[Det_ard]

Now back in 2000 when Michigan's unemployment rate was 3% we had great transit. Then we did away with that fantastic transit system and unemployment rose to 15%. If we'd just build a great transit system again then everything would be fine. See, it's all about transit.

[SpartanTom]

Now back in 2000 when Michigan's unemployment rate was 3% we had great transit. Then we did away with that fantastic transit system and unemployment rose to 15%. If we'd just build a great transit system again then everything would be fine. See, it's all about transit.

The point is having a functional mass transit system can only help. What, do you think it will further hurt our economy? I honestly do not get the detractors of light rail.

[Detroitnerd]

I honestly do not get the detractors of light rail.

I think it's a combination of things, but it all boils down to fear. Fear of government. Fear of taxes. Fear of "socialism". Fear of having to share public space with people. Fear of having your car taken away. Fear of having your "freedom" taken over by "social planners." Fear of big, bad black people getting off a light rail vehicle near your house ... just fears. That's all.

Given all those fears, it begins to look safe and sensible to design an all-car system that probably less than 75 percent of us can use.

[SpartanTom]

I think it's a combination of things, but it all boils down to fear. Fear of government. Fear of taxes. Fear of "socialism". Fear of having to share public space with people. Fear of having your car taken away. Fear of having your "freedom" taken over by "social planners." Fear of big, bad black people getting off a light rail vehicle near your house ... just fears. That's all.

Given all those fears, it begins to look safe and sensible to design an all-car system that probably less than 75 percent of us can use.

Reminds me of all the "tea party" protests with all of the rampant fear of over taxation. It's hilarious because you know that probably every single one of them, save the congressmen/women preaching to them, got a tax CUT after Obama took office. They don't even know what they're afraid of anymore.

[313WX]

"A good majority of the people here would say we function just fine without a mass transit system [[or the bus system is enough)."

If they do, it's against all evidence to the contrary.

The fact is, like R8RBOB shows in his story, the citizens of Metro Detroit don't know any better. They've been forced to become accustomed to this environment [[And we must admit, this potential doom & gloom that's been predicted hasn't really impacted folks as badly as one thought) so as long as they can reach ponit A and point B themselves, they believe it's sustainable.

[Russix]

Now back in 2000 when Michigan's unemployment rate was 3% we had great transit. Then we did away with that fantastic transit system and unemployment rose to 15%. If we'd just build a great transit system again then everything would be fine. See, it's all about transit.

We did not have great transit in 2000. We had really shitty traffic. If we'd just build a great transit system, then we'd at least have a chance at attracting new businesses and residents to the area instead of letting other metro regions bleed us dry because we are only capable at expressing total incompetence on this subject.

[313WX]

Now back in 2000 when Michigan's unemployment rate was 3% we had great transit. Then we did away with that fantastic transit system and unemployment rose to 15%. If we'd just build a great transit system again then everything would be fine. See, it's all about transit.

Bullshit.

First of all, I thoguht we were only talking about Metro Detroit, not ALL of Michigan. Even Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor have far better transit than we do. Second of all, Metro Detroit never had "great" transit. The buses and its system were just as ragedy in the early 2000s as they are now. Even the streetcars still had their faults.

That said, we did have heavier congestion back in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Of course that was because he had an ok economy. I do remember I-75 & The Lodge out of Downtown actually being congested duirng rush hour back then.

[ferntruth]

I think it's a combination of things, but it all boils down to fear. Fear of government. Fear of taxes. Fear of "socialism". Fear of having to share public space with people. Fear of having your car taken away. Fear of having your "freedom" taken over by "social planners." Fear of big, bad black people getting off a light rail vehicle near your house ... just fears. That's all.

Given all those fears, it begins to look safe and sensible to design an all-car system that probably less than 75 percent of us can use.

...and fear of evil yuppie white people moving into the area and gentrifying the area...
[[if we're gonna drag up stereotypes, lets make sure ALL are represented)

[Bearinabox]

...and fear of evil yuppie white people moving into the area and gentrifying the area...
[[if we're gonna drag up stereotypes, lets make sure ALL are represented)

I don't think anyone actually opposes improved transit on the grounds that it will attract "evil yuppie white people."

[Russix]

I don't think anyone actually opposes improved transit on the grounds that it will attract "evil yuppie white people."

Did you ever read the blog by some Highland Park resident? I don't know where to find it, but basically it cited Woodward light rail as the beginning of the "invasion".

[Hermod]

Absolutely nothing exists in Oakland County or Macomb County that can compete for anything but the smallest conventions. Nor is there likely to be any such thing built. and what about the hotel package that would need to be built. you have to have thousands of rooms within walking distance to make bids for conventions.

Fort Lauderdale and Miami Beach have convention centers that do quite well in attracting conventions without meeting your qualifier. They have the thousands of rooms but not within walking distance.

[Zacha341]

Hah! I am not a fan of light rail but to say it would be an invasion of HP is laughable!

Did you ever read the blog by some Highland Park resident? I don't know where to find it, but basically it cited Woodward light rail as the beginning of the "invasion".