Religion directly related to crime

[checkraisej]

The Hustler Club and mosque down the street from butter jesus did not get hit with lightning and are still standing. Take that how you want to. The absolute destruction of "BJC" was biblical.

[Michigan]

The Hustler Club and mosque down the street from butter jesus did not get hit with lightning and are still standing. Take that how you want to. The absolute destruction of "BJC" was biblical.

Was Jesus destroyed by the devil and Allah? Is this the sign of a start to a war in Heaven? Will God strike back? Should he? I think so!!!!

[rb336]

The real problem is not religion, but rather power.

That is very true, and the reason atheists are getting more vocal. The extremists in religion are trying to force their beliefs on the community at large - from government sponsored prayer [[at various govt. meetings, etc.) to the national day of prayer. They say we want to keep them from praying -- wrong. we just want them to stop forcing their form of prayer on non-believers AND believers in other faiths. Want to pray before a meeting? fine, just don't make it PART of the meeting. If you need a "national day of prayer" well -- do you REALLY want the government telling you when to pray?

There has been NO effort I am aware of to "ban prayer" - just an effort to ban government sponsorship of it

[Detroitej72]

They say we want to keep them from praying -- wrong. we just want them to stop forcing their form of prayer on non-believers AND believers in other faiths. Want to pray before a meeting? fine, just don't make it PART of the meeting.

We are in agreement here.

If you need a "national day of prayer" well -- do you REALLY want the government telling you when to pray?

The funny thing about this sentance is those who scream that they don't want the government telling them what to do are the loudest ones screaming in favor of it.

[maxx]

That is very true, and the reason atheists are getting more vocal. The extremists in religion are trying to force their beliefs on the community at large - from government sponsored prayer [[at various govt. meetings, etc.) to the national day of prayer.

Frankenmuth and Howell have both been confronted with the Nat. Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools. This curriculum has been criticized by a large group of scholars of many faiths for misquoting founding fathers and dressing up religious propaganda and an attack on the separation of church and state as history. Criticism of the NCBCPS curriculum can be found in the report "The Bible and the Public Schools by Dr. Mark Chancey, Prof. of biblical studies at Southern Methodist U.
http://faculty.smu.edu/mchancey/public_schools.htm

[maxx]

Quote: "Why doesn't God make it more fair? . If I knew the answer to that one I would be more popular than the Pope. But seriously that sounds like a question that at some point most christians struggle with. "

I'm not struggling with it, nor have I ever.

A perfect example of religionist nonthinking. To question is to invite that ol' bogey Satan.

How happy is the blameless vestal's lot!
The world forgetting, by the world forgot.
Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind!
Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd;
Alexander Pope, "Eloisa to Abelard"

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "A perfect example of religionist nonthinking. To question is to invite that ol' bogey Satan."

To pretend you understand is even worse.

It's funny, all through time, each generation of man considered themselves a final authority on all things. See the pattern? Or are you just content to assume you're some final authority? What do we know? Not much really. We don't really know much beyond our own moon, and little even of that. The images our best telescopes can capture are thousands of millions of years old. We really don't know much. We can't even plug a hole spewing oil in the gulf, a short mile down in comparison. No absolute cure for cancer, no cure for Aids, no cure for herpes. And from the looks of it, we aren't learning much, we still build war machines to kill each other with, and do so. All for some flag.

[maxx]

Quote: "A perfect example of religionist nonthinking. To question is to invite that ol' bogey Satan."

To pretend you understand is even worse.

It's funny, all through time, each generation of man considered themselves a final authority on all things. See the pattern? Or are you just content to assume you're some final authority?

But you admitted that you don't even ask yourself questions like why are things so unfair if an omnipotent and loving god is in charge. That's what I dislike the most about xtianity. It tells small children to not question. It often threatens them with sadistic tortures. Believers are promised eternal joy but they have to sacrifice their brains for it. Makes me wonder if the xtian god likes morons.

What do we know? Not much really. We don't really know much beyond our own moon, and little even of that.

That's right. Pooh pooh scientific accomplishments. We'd know even less if the religionists were still in charge as in the days of Copernicus.

And from the looks of it, we aren't learning much, we still build war machines to kill each other with, and do so. All for some flag.

I won't argue with you there although I would hope the people fighting are fighting for more than a piece of cloth. But the whole issue of flag burning that I believe Republicans used to get people all hot and bothered one election cycle showed the shallowness of some people's reasoning. Some people were willing to go to the mat over someone's burning the flag while ignoring the reasons for the protest. Veterans are particularly likely to talk about protecting the flag and fighting for the flag while not being very particular about what the latest war is about. As I have pointed out elsewhere, we are a pretty militaristic society with all our military bases at home and around the world. And I dare say there are few people who will say that joining the military was a bad idea for them or their children, at least not in words. The suicide rate among returning veterans speaks volumes. My father thought his time in the military during WWII were among the best times of his life. But then, the army sent him to MIT and then to Jupiter Island to work on radar. Rose Kennedy came to the base and served him tea.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "My father thought his time in the military during WWII were among the best times of his life. But then, the army sent him to MIT and then to Jupiter Island to work on radar. Rose Kennedy came to the base and served him tea."

He didn't invent the minivan did he? There is a growing list of people taking credit..

Quote: "Believers are promised eternal joy but they have to sacrifice their brains for it."

This is absolutely not true. True ignorance is complacency. Or in the words of C.S. Lewis "It is better to be a dissatisfied Socrates, than a satisfied hog"

[Detroitej72]

We really don't know much. We can't even plug a hole spewing oil in the gulf, a short mile down in comparison. No absolute cure for cancer, no cure for Aids, no cure for herpes. And from the looks of it, we aren't learning much, we still build war machines to kill each other with, and do so. All for some flag.

Regarding the lack of cures for cancer, aids, herpes, etc., the drug companies make billions off the treatments that are now offered, why would they search for a cure and kill this golden goose? It's all about the almighty dollar, man puts a greater value on money over human lives.

[Detroitej72]

But you admitted that you don't even ask yourself questions like why are things so unfair if an omnipotent and loving god is in charge.

Outside of natural disasters, all the pain and suffering in the world is caused by man's hand.

That's right. Pooh pooh scientific accomplishments. We'd know even less if the religionists were still in charge as in the days of Copernicus.

The church has taken great strides to atone for past mistakes. These days, The Vatican is one of the largest funders of science. They have a state of the art telescope in Arizona, many priests are physicists and work in labs, and Pope John Paul II even stated he believes there is life on other planets.

[maxx]

Sstashmoo: No absolute cure for cancer, no cure for Aids, no cure for herpes.

But we do have treatments for cancers, AIDS and herpes. What does religion tell the sufferer to do? Pray and suffer because suffering is good for the soul. Without science we'd still be drilling holes in peoples' heads to let the demons out.

Here's a good example of a skeptic's treatment at a christian site. What happened to the freedom of speech?
"Yesterday I was banned from Grace Centered Christian Forums, only after being there for two days.
I posted three or four threads, the last about Jesus' temptation, where I asked "What is not literal in the Temptation of Jesus?"
Immediately, I was asked "what do you think is not literal?"
I replied, the mountain, from where Jesus had to see the kingdoms of India, Rome and Egypt.
He would have needed a mountain as high as where the Space Shuttle goes!
Not to speak about breathing problems.
Bang!
Banned for life!"
posted on the Secular Lifestyle forum at http://freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=286958

That sort of treatment of a simple question is unAmerican. It smacks of authoritarianism.

[maxx]

Outside of natural disasters, all the pain and suffering in the world is caused by man's hand.

When people talk about unfairness in the world, I think they are referring to the people born with debilitating diseases and handicaps, third world poverty and the like.

The church has taken great strides to atone for past mistakes. These days, The Vatican is one of the largest funders of science. They have a state of the art telescope in Arizona, many priests are physicists and work in labs, and Pope John Paul II even stated he believes there is life on other planets.

And all of those steps into the 21st century were done because they were confronted with an avalanche of scientific research and the public's demand for relief from diseases despite their Inquisition.

[Sstashmoo]

Maxx's method of debate, find some nutjob and use them as an example. Yes fundamentalists are very backward in their thinking, snake handling etc. They probably represent less than 1% of the body of believers. If I get sick I go to the doctor, as does anyone else I know. I've never known anyone that refused medical treatment in lieu of their beliefs. Knocking holes in people's heads to let the demons out? None of that is proved, it is a theory based on archaeological discovery. However there is written record of people selected by social class, being fed to Lions, and allowing them to be slaughtered by gladiators for entertainment purposes in Rome. Is this the sort of society you wish to live in? Secularism is NOT the Christian society you live in. Be careful what you ask for. Rome was probably the most brutal aristocratic society in the history of the planet. It fell for good reason.

[Detroitej72]

But we do have treatments for cancers, AIDS and herpes. What does religion tell the sufferer to do? Pray and suffer because suffering is good for the soul.

We have no cures, which is what he said. And most church's don't tell you to just pray and suffer, that's your distortion of facts.

Here's a good example of a skeptic's treatment at a Christian site. What happened to the freedom of speech?
"Yesterday I was banned from Grace Centered Christian Forums, only after being there for two days.
That sort of treatment of a simple question is unAmerican. It smacks of authoritarianism.

Trolls are banned from many websites for, well, trolling. The same thing happens on this website and I'm sure it happens on atheist sites. You must abide by the rules of the webmaster, or else suffer the consequences.

[Stosh]

Maxx's method of debate, find some nutjob and use them as an example. .

Hmm. Same as mine.

[Sstashmoo]

Yes, yourself as an example..

[Stosh]

Yes, yourself as an example..

Now why would I do that? Sounds kind of stupid.... oh wait, that's YOUR suggestion. . no wonder!

[maxx]

Maxx's method of debate, find some nutjob and use them as an example.

One "nutjob" was not responsible for the Inquisition. And one "nutjob" is not responsible for all the drivel called creationism and ID today.

If I get sick I go to the doctor, as does anyone else I know. I've never known anyone that refused medical treatment in lieu of their beliefs.

I didn't say that. However, in the notso-distant past the Catholic church's policy was to choose the life of the baby over the life of the woman giving birth.

Knocking holes in people's heads to let the demons out? None of that is proved, it is a theory based on archaeological discovery.

But people still believe in evil spirits today. The only reason they are no longer associated with headaches is aspirin.

However there is written record of people selected by social class, being fed to Lions, and allowing them to be slaughtered by gladiators for entertainment purposes in Rome.

And students of history know that Constantine killed a lot of "pagans" when he created his xtian empire.

Is this the sort of society you wish to live in? Secularism is NOT the Christian society you live in

The Roman Empire was not secular. It had an imperial religion with the emperor as god. Sort of like what the Republicans were trying to create during the last admin.

Be careful what you ask for. Rome was probably the most brutal aristocratic society in the history of the planet. It fell for good reason.

It fell because the empire became so large,neither its army nor the cultural tidbits it left behind could hold it together. The US should look at the size of its own military empire and take a lessons from the Romans.

[maxx]

Trolls are banned from many websites for, well, trolling. The same thing happens on this website and I'm sure it happens on atheist sites. You must abide by the rules of the webmaster, or else suffer the consequences.

SO that person was a "troll" because she asked an embarrassing question that no xtian could answer. They just do not discuss their beliefs with any skeptics probably because they know that they don't make sense. They would have been more honest to have said that they didn't know. But they can't do that because they constantly criticize science for not having all the answers.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "One "nutjob" was not responsible for the Inquisition."

So..

Quote: "in the notso-distant past the Catholic church's policy was to choose the life of the baby over the life of the woman giving birth."

A definition and example of "noble". Something a selfish jerk would never understand.

More taken out of context.. Your whole argument on everything is shaped that way. You'll never win or lose an argument. When the chips are down you simply segway and drag something out of the closet, and use it for some halfassed defense. Very tiring....

[Detroitej72]

And students of history know that Constantine killed a lot of "pagans" when he created his xtian empire.

And any student of history knows the reason Constantine converted to Christianity was because a majority of his subjects, including his mother, had already converted and he felt it would be to his political advantage, not out of a deep belief.

The Roman Empire was not secular. It had an imperial religion with the emperor as god. Sort of like what the Republicans were trying to create during the last admin.

I agree, but will take it one step earlier. These days, the cons point to their messiah, Ronald W. Reagan, whom they believe not only walked on water, but who is held as an example of what a good con should be.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "But they can't do that because they constantly criticize science for not having all the answers."

Another one of your outright lies.

Who are all these Christians you keep referring to? Quite frankly I think you have this imaginary [[hateful) perception of what a believer is. You continually say were this and we're that, and none of it is even true. You make up things to whine about. Translated: to start arguments on internet forums.

Christians only criticize the misled like yourself, claiming science has all the answers when anyone with a half of a brain, including the scientific community clearly realizes they DO NOT. Many in the scientific community believes in God, explain that.

[maxx]

Quote: "But they can't do that because they constantly criticize science for not having all the answers."

S: Another one of your outright lies.

What are you talking about? The major argument used against evolution is that it doesn't answer all questions including why we are here?

Who are all these Christians you keep referring to? Quite frankly I think you have this imaginary [[hateful) perception of what a believer is.

I have yet to find a fundamentalist who knows anything about evolution that wasn't posted on a fundie website. And when it comes to hateful perceptions, nothing tops the religionists demonizing of atheists and religious skeptics.

You continually say were this and we're that, and none of it is even true. You make up things to whine about. Translated: to start arguments on internet forums.

If you don't like to argue, go to a fundie website where you can tell each other how much your god has done for you. They don't allow the free exchange of ideas there, very unAmerican, very authoritarian.

Christians only criticize the misled like yourself, claiming science has all the answers ...

Show me where any credible scientific source or anyone here, other than yourself, has said that science has all the answers. That's part of your strawman.

Many in the scientific community believes in God, explain that.

Why don't you interview all these scientists who are believers? Maybe they were indoctrinated in the old time religion as children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Ge0fWvgr8

[Sstashmoo]

What is your obsession with this topic. Seriously you drone on, day after day about it. Practically every post of your touches on it. Classic OCD. If you aren't undergoing treatment, you should seek it. The reality is, you're probably just a person that likes to hide behind your keyboard and harass believers, because you think it's entertaining, and it's usually easy. The highpoint for you is getting banned from a Christian forum. That you joined just to start shit and get attention, because you get none otherwise. Am I right?