Religion directly related to crime

**johnsmith** · April-20-10, 02:13 PM

Thanks for that post rb336, it shows that sstashmoo is right, you've totally twisted the snippet of the constitution you quoted..

**johnsmith** · April-20-10, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

The thug or Einstein argument about abortion is pretty pointless, since there is no way of determining the personality of a fetus. A woman's right to control her body is the bottom line. [[Greater access to contraceptives would be the best way to lower the abortion rate but a lot of the fetus worshippers are against that too.)

What are you talking about? No one is banned from purchasing their own contraceptives. Or are you in the "I'm not responsible for myself and my actions" camp. Thought so.

**Sstashmoo** · April-20-10, 02:59 PM

Quote: "contemporaneous common usage"

My experience when people start using words like that, they might as well say "hey I was wrong"

In other words, You pick the definition that best fits your story. If you are meaning to imply that the constitution was penned to "disrespect" religion, that is the biggest haha you've ever entered on this forum.

**Sstashmoo** · April-20-10, 03:04 PM

Quote: "no one has to swear on a bible."

True, but they choose to do so. Because they understand, refusal to do so would disrespect their office and their constituency.

**rb336** · April-20-10, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "no one has to swear on a bible."

True, but they choose to do so. Because they understand, refusal to do so would disrespect their office and their constituency.

what utter bullshit. they do it for a number of reasons, namely that they do believe, or, if not, they are "social christians" [[a much more known phenomenon in England than here -- non-believers who go to church for cultural reasons). I have seen Christians refuse to take such oaths on bibles, citing Matt 6 [[when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret)

**Sstashmoo** · April-20-10, 03:53 PM

rb, You live in a predominantly Christian nation, get over it. You aren't going to change that, no matter your amount of "reasoning"..

**Sstashmoo** · April-20-10, 03:59 PM

Quote: "Article VI Section iii:"

Article 6 section 3? Three sixes? 666?

**rb336** · April-20-10, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

rb, You live in a predominantly Christian nation, get over it. You aren't going to change that, no matter your amount of "reasoning"..

see, stash, it doesn't bother me that the majority of people are bound by their superstitions. it is when they try to impose them on me [[or those of other faiths, be it hindi, judaism, islam, buddhism, etc.) that I object. keep it to yourself, as Matt 6 tells you to

**Sstashmoo** · April-20-10, 04:33 PM

Quote: "it is the extremist christians who are the ones trying to force their mythology down everyone's throats,"

"Mythology" "Superstition" And you don't hate Christianity? I'll ask you again, show one instance where anyone pushed their religion on you. It's nothing but bullshit and a vehicle for you to spew your hatred and insult others. Your of the same ilk that waves the Constitution at everyone in between wiping your ass on it.

Quote: " keep it to yourself,"

Classic example. I have just as much right to express my views as you do yours. You wouldn't want to infringe on my rights would you? Mr Constitution interpreter?

**rb336** · April-21-10, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "it is the extremist christians who are the ones trying to force their mythology down everyone's throats,"

"Mythology" "Superstition" And you don't hate Christianity?

just calling it what it is:
Myth [[M-W)
2 : a body of myths: as a : the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people

in other words, religion

Superstion [[M-W)
1 a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition

I'll ask you again, show one instance where anyone pushed their religion on you. It's nothing but bullshit and a vehicle for you to spew your hatred and insult others. Your of the same ilk that waves the Constitution at everyone in between wiping your ass on it.

oh bullshit. asked and answered. you just can't see it because you are incapable of seeing anything without your blood-of-christ colored glasses tinting it your way.

tell you what -- try having an ex-president say you shouldn't be considered a citizen based on your religious beliefs

show me a rational [[1 a : having reason or understanding b : relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason [[1c : a sufficient ground of explanation or of logical defense; especially : something [[as a principle or law) that supports a conclusion or explains a fact) basis for believing there is some sky-fairy watching over everyone

**Sstashmoo** · April-21-10, 08:59 AM

Now that's ballsy.. This guy edits definitions from the dictionary.

Quote: "oh bullshit. asked and answered."

Again, who is pushing their faith on you? Nobody.

**Zacha341** · April-21-10, 10:49 AM

I'd laugh were it not so ugly. When the child is "wanted" it is a baby, when not, it's a clump of "cells", tissues or other non-affirming terminology to diminish the quantitative value.

I'll remind the next woman to correct herself when she cheerfully states that she has just found out that she's having a baby. She's just having some cells...

What we choose to NAME or CALL something in measure defines what and how we think of it.

Originally Posted by rb336

...they are living cells, not a life. the majority of the time, those cells fail to grow into a human

**rb336** · April-21-10, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Now that's ballsy.. This guy edits definitions from the dictionary.

some people need to know what is meant by words. I provided that.

Quote: "oh bullshit. asked and answered."

Again, who is pushing their faith on you? Nobody.

you are when you want to put religious displays on property that is owned, in part, by ME. you are when you insist on having prayers at government-sponsored functions I might like to participate in. you are when you insist that the lunacy of "intelligent design" be taught in public schools as if it had any scientific validity. You are when you hinder scientific progress because it offends your religious sentiments.

**Sstashmoo** · April-21-10, 11:40 AM

What it boils down to rb, I trust God, you trust man, good luck with that. Oh and might want to look into what these men are doing, the middle east is becoming a sea of nuclear weapons.

Quote: "some people need to know what is meant by words."

Yeah I had to define the word "religion" for you, in the context I was using it. Bashing Christianity is your "religion".

Stosh · April-21-10, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Article VI Section iii:"

Article 6 section 3? Three sixes? 666?

Get the straightjacket ready. I think this one's ripe.

**rb336** · April-21-10, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Yeah I had to define the word "religion" for you, in the context I was using it. Bashing Christianity is your "religion".

more like a hobby. more like standing up and no longer allowing religionists to spout their hokum without someone calling "Bullshit!"

**Sstashmoo** · April-21-10, 04:30 PM

Quote: "more like standing up and no longer allowing religionists to spout their hokum"

Touche'

**Detroitej72** · April-21-10, 06:31 PM

There is nothing less gratifying than listening, or in this case reading two people trying to force their views onto one another. With that said, I think I'll go watch my paint dry.

**1KielsonDrive** · April-22-10, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society"

Total bullshit. The country and society you have been fortunate enough to be placed in, the remnants thereof were structured and shaped by God-fearing people.

I hope our economy improves, for some, I hope what they wish for is revealed to them on a much grander scale. I truly think that is what is happening. Our dollar crashes, it's over folks. This notion that men will just ally with one another and do good is off the charts insane. Read a friggin newspaper. The reality is, those without God, serve themselves, not others. Like what you're getting? Keep believing what you do.

No I don't like what I'm getting. Yes, I will keep believing what I do. Thank you. Typical, righteous, religious, response.

**1KielsonDrive** · April-22-10, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

The thug or Einstein argument about abortion is pretty pointless, since there is no way of determining the personality of a fetus. A woman's right to control her body is the bottom line. [[Greater access to contraceptives would be the best way to lower the abortion rate but a lot of the fetus worshippers are against that too.)

Thank you, Pam. This isn't really about abortion rights, anyway. It's about men's [[males) rights. Their right to tell others what to do with their lives and bodies. Control. A gentler version of Taliban rules. Considering religion's ideas and teachings about conscience, confession and an individual's relationship with their creator, you'd think they'd allow each person to determine their own decision after consultation with their creator. But that doesn't satisfy people who feel the need to mete out punishment for any number of transgressions. Which is one of the most important parts of religion : guilt and punishment.

**1KielsonDrive** · April-23-10, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

What it boils down to rb, I trust God, you trust man, good luck with that. Oh and might want to look into what these men are doing, the middle east is becoming a sea of nuclear weapons.

Quote: "some people need to know what is meant by words."

Yeah I had to define the word "religion" for you, in the context I was using it. Bashing Christianity is your "religion".

Without man there is no god.

**1KielsonDrive** · April-23-10, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "it is the extremist christians who are the ones trying to force their mythology down everyone's throats,"

"Mythology" "Superstition" And you don't hate Christianity? I'll ask you again, show one instance where anyone pushed their religion on you. It's nothing but bullshit and a vehicle for you to spew your hatred and insult others. Your of the same ilk that waves the Constitution at everyone in between wiping your ass on it.

Quote: " keep it to yourself,"

Classic example. I have just as much right to express my views as you do yours. You wouldn't want to infringe on my rights would you? Mr Constitution interpreter?

It all sounds so 'Christian'.

**1KielsonDrive** · April-23-10, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Our Governments act of swearing in and taking solemn oath in the presence of the Holy Bible clearly indicates our governments reverence for the word of God. You can writhe about that if you choose, it was happening before you were born and it will be happening after you're gone. And there is nothing you can do about it, except post excerpts from the constitution and twist them around to fit your delusions.

That's not an example of 'reverence' I'd use. Most of the people swearing on the bible do so out of coercion and the rest are crooked as hell.

**Gistok** · April-23-10, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

The problem with debates like this is atheists are just as blind and passionate about their choice of faith,[[or lack of) and both sides get personal with attacks and no common ground is ever reached.

The real problem is not religion, but rather power. People have used religion as a source of power and control over the masses all through history. Contrary to popular belief, religion has been used to control the masses long before Christianity was formed.

There have been plenty of studies that confirm power is the root of all the world's ills. Just look at some of the examples stated above. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, all were atheists and all were just as brutal as the Crusades, Inquisition, Bin Ladin, etc. The common link was power over the masses, and people who seek power will use whatever means necessary to obtain their goals.

Most folks on both sides of the argument will choose to ignore these realities, but that doesn't change the facts.

Detroitej72... it's nice to see that at least someone was awake during history class in school....

For every war caused by religion, there's at least as many that were of secular origins.

In fact some struggles were both secular and religious... example....

The Lancastrian and Yorkist branches of the British royal family [[the descendents of Edward III) wrecked havoc on 15th century England known as the War of the Roses.... a non-religious conflict. When the Tudors came to power in 1485 [[a branch of the family with both Lancaster and York blood)... the need for a male heir by Henry VII's son Henry VIII [[so as not to lead to further dynastic struggles)... caused a break with the Roman Catholic Church.... and that lead to another century of Catholic/Protestant as well as Stuart/Parliamentarian struggles. This just one example of where sometimes religion is involved... sometimes it's not...

To try to pigeon hole all troubles as either ONLY religious or ONLY non-religious in nature... well it just shows that some folks have not learned their history lessons very well...

**maxx** · April-23-10, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Just like those idiots on other social media that are protesting Obama's National day of prayer omission"

You seem reasonably intelligent, haven't you figured it out yet? The networks just play on your emotions, so they can keep you "tuned in" to watch 60-70 commercials an hour? Plus shape society with orders from their corporate masters. They can portray any group any way they want, it's controlled with the camera, what gets reported and what doesn't, what video to show and what to hide. What person to interview and who to avoid. Wake up man, turn that shit off.

Turn off the networks and get your news from where? Fox?

And you haven't responded to my mentioning of xtians' demanding that their religion be granted certain privileges. They want their prayers to their god to precede sports events and even the public school day. They force school districts to spend money to defend their curricula from stupid ideas like ID. Dover school district which is a rural district among the Amish farms of PA had to spend around a million dollars to keep ID out of their science classrooms. Some of these xtian groups have about as much morality as huge corporations like Monsanto. They treat issues like wars of attrition. They figure they can win in the end by forcing others to spend more than they can afford. They have no regard for education or the development of critical thinking skills among children. Xtianity depends on ignorant and fearful people.