It's Back! I-94 rebuild in Detroit returns

[rooms222]

It's already twenty + years in the making, but it hasn't come to pass....The proposed widening and rebuilding of I-94 in Detroit has come back again....

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/100409943

[Jason]

Maybe it will go away again, or they'll only finish some of the phases.

I don't like how they'll be getting rid of some of the bridges in midtown. I think you'd really want to connect that area as much as possible. Also, they'll be getting rid of some of the bridges on I-75, meaning that there will be no way to cross the highway basically between Grand Boulevard and Warren.

The entire thing seems really expensive too, and I didn't even realize that it was such a big problem. Not that there aren't improvements that could be warranted, but this is a massive project.

And for 1.5-1.8 billion you could build quite a large light rail system, or you could fix cobo, or you could fund schools or police, or you could demolish crack houses, or do so many things. I know most of the money is federal, but it still seems like a waste.

And the public input is about the aesthetics? What does that even mean? What kind of bushes to plant?

[Ray1936]

I don't understand. If nobody lives or works in Detroit any more, where does all the bloomin' traffic come from?

[313WX]

This will be a waste of money. It's amazing that in the worst reccession of this century with a stagnant/shrinking regional population that we're sitll building infrastructure as if growth is exploding.

While I-94 does get somewhat congested during peak rush hours [[in/out of downtown), it's usually stop/go and [[I think) bearable.

[Russix]

This freeway should be put in a tunnel between 10 and 75.

[dtowncitylover]

This freeway should be put in a tunnel between 10 and 75.

The Lodge thank you.

[JohnnyFreddy]

The Lodge thank you.

The Lodge IS IS IS IS IS ......10....thank you.
Relax. When you're abbr. to numbers, Lodge is 10.

[Brian1979]

The Lodge IS IS IS IS IS ......10....thank you.
Relax. When you're abbr. to numbers, Lodge is 10.

Yes the Lodge is 10 just like the Southfield is 39 and the Davison is 8 but Detroiters never call the freeways by numbers, I have never heard a Detroiter call the Lodge M-10 or the Southfield M-39, there the Lodge and the Southfield both of which were known as such before the numbers were placed on those freeways. If you were to say Ford, Chrysler, Ruether, Southfield, Lodge, Davison or Fisher to me I'd know exactly which freeway you are refering to.

[Proslack]

This freeway should be put in a tunnel between 10 and 75.

Really? Why is that?

[Brian1979]

Really? Why is that?

I'd vote for the same thing to be done between Third and Beaubein on the Fisher. It breaks up the urban landscape to have a freeway running through the center of it and connecting New Center to downtown would be a good thing.

[313WX]

I'd vote for the same thing to be done between Third and Beaubein on the Fisher. It breaks up the urban landscape to have a freeway running through the center of it and connecting New Center to downtown would be a good thing.

I don't know why people keep stating this. Chicago has damn near the same freeway infrastructure in its CBD that Detroit does and majority of its urban fabric is still firmly in tact.

It was the rampant abandonment of our CBD and the obsessive "tear that schitt down!!!" mindset that destroyed the urban frabric, not the freeways. The area within a mile north-south of I-75 was very dense for well over a decade after the Fisher was constructed.

[ghettopalmetto]

I don't know why people keep stating this. Chicago has damn near the same freeway infrastructure in its CBD that Detroit does and majority of its urban fabric is still firmly in tact.

It was the rampant abandonment of our CBD and the obsessive "tear that schitt down!!!" mindset that destroyed the urban frabric, not the freeways. The area within a mile north-south of I-75 was very dense for well over a decade after the Fisher was constructed.

In Detroit, though, a system of easy motoring required acres and acres of parking lots. Chicago maintained its extensive transit network, thus permitting the density to be maintained.

[Brian1979]

I don't know why people keep stating this. Chicago has damn near the same freeway infrastructure in its CBD that Detroit does and majority of its urban fabric is still firmly in tact.

It was the rampant abandonment of our CBD and the obsessive "tear that schitt down!!!" mindset that destroyed the urban frabric, not the freeways. The area within a mile north-south of I-75 was very dense for well over a decade after the Fisher was constructed.

Chicago has a much bigger downtown area in size than Detroit does. Also Chicago built their freeway system a little better than Detroit did, the only freeways you have in Chicago that come near downtown are the Kennedy/Dan Ryan, Eisenhower and to a lesser extent the Stevenson which comes in south of the downtown area and the Dan Ryan/Kennedy Expressway runs to the west of downtown. In Detroit you have three freeways that pretty much make the downtown area isolated from the rest of the city, that isn't the case in Chicago. All I'm saying is that the Fisher should be tunneled from Beaubein to Third and the Ford from the Chrysler to the Lodge. it's not that long of a stretch and would better connect the downtown area to midtown and New Center.

[iheartthed]

I don't know why people keep stating this. Chicago has damn near the same freeway infrastructure in its CBD that Detroit does and majority of its urban fabric is still firmly in tact.

It was the rampant abandonment of our CBD and the obsessive "tear that schitt down!!!" mindset that destroyed the urban frabric, not the freeways. The area within a mile north-south of I-75 was very dense for well over a decade after the Fisher was constructed.

Huh? I-90/94 is the only freeway that comes close to the Chicago loop. Downtown Detroit is boxed in by 3 different freeways: the Lodge, Fisher, and 375.

[Junkin4Life]

This freeway should be put in a tunnel between 10 and 75.

I agree with you. the upper level can be a blvd or something

[Atticus]

I have friends that live in NYC, Boston, DC, and several other major metros with good transit systems. And when I have asked “What are you doing this weekend?”, never once from any of those friends have I heard “well, I love transit so much I am going to ride transit around all weekend and just soak in the glory of being a transit rider”.

That doesn’t mean they didn’t ride transit of course... but they rode it because they couldn’t walk from their residence to where they are going. Transit is a means to an end, and not an end itself. Detroit doesn’t have enough walkable neighborhoods yet. Downtown, Midtown, and New Center are walkable. Corktown and pockets of Mexicantown are getting there... but that is it. Every other neighborhood is pretty much designed for a car.

So yes, if the neighborhood is single family housing, with a yard, it is not really walkable. Because it means getting in a car or bus to drive somewhere to get on transit. And if you have to get in a car anyway, the traffic situation is not horrible enough to justify not just driving downtown.

And yes, functionally the bus is not really transit. It uses the same lanes as cars. It gets caught in the same traffic as cars. And the majority of bus riders are people who cannot afford cars. People don’t want to ride busses, even most transit lovers. They really only ride busses if they have no other choice financially.

[lilpup]

A 21-year-old study regarding this should be deemed obsolete and anything planned beyond maintenance and repair thrown out.

[wolverine]

I really don't understand why this is necessary. Just put up with the traffic jams like the rest of the world.

[EL Jimbo]

I really don't understand why this is necessary. Just put up with the traffic jams like the rest of the world.

because traffic jams = economic inefficiency

countless millions, if not billions of dollars are lost in wasted time and fuel sitting in traffic. The efficient movement of people and goods is an economic generator in and of itself. If one region or country can move people and goods faster and cheaper then they have a competitive advantage over other locales. Part of the economic boom that occurred in this country post WWII was in part to the massive investment that was made in our transportation system via the Interstate Highway system.

Now I don't exactly think that the continued solution is to "build our way out" of congestion through highway expansion alone. In fact a comprehensive transportation solution is required. However, the fact of the matter remains that any investment in our transportation network is paid back and some in increased economic activity and efficiency.

[ghettopalmetto]

because traffic jams = economic inefficiency

countless millions, if not billions of dollars are lost in wasted time and fuel sitting in traffic. The efficient movement of people and goods is an economic generator in and of itself. If one region or country can move people and goods faster and cheaper then they have a competitive advantage over other locales. Part of the economic boom that occurred in this country post WWII was in part to the massive investment that was made in our transportation system via the Interstate Highway system.

Now I don't exactly think that the continued solution is to "build our way out" of congestion through highway expansion alone. In fact a comprehensive transportation solution is required. However, the fact of the matter remains that any investment in our transportation network is paid back and some in increased economic activity and efficiency.

I take it you've never been to Atlanta or Los Angeles.

[EL Jimbo]

I take it you've never been to Atlanta or Los Angeles.

Never been to LA but I've been through Atlanta many times. I know that both cities have lots of traffic and congestion because of their very active local economies. I also know that both cities are not standing pat because "congestion is good". Both cities have invested heavily in improving both the capacity and choices of transportation in the area. through freeway expansion and widening, creation of HOV/HOT lanes, and improvements in mass transit. They realize that if they wish to continue their growth, they must provide the infrastructure to support it.

[wolverine]

because traffic jams = economic inefficiency

countless millions, if not billions of dollars are lost in wasted time and fuel sitting in traffic. The efficient movement of people and goods is an economic generator in and of itself. If one region or country can move people and goods faster and cheaper then they have a competitive advantage over other locales. Part of the economic boom that occurred in this country post WWII was in part to the massive investment that was made in our transportation system via the Interstate Highway system.

Now I don't exactly think that the continued solution is to "build our way out" of congestion through highway expansion alone. In fact a comprehensive transportation solution is required. However, the fact of the matter remains that any investment in our transportation network is paid back and some in increased economic activity and efficiency.

Incorrect. Congestion is a sign of economic vitality. It's a myth that traffic congestion creates economic loss.....a scapegoat because lost hours is something easily measurable. But you can't measure habit. You modify a commute in any way and people [[or movement off goods) will schedule accordingly Not to mention many congestion incidents are a result of disabled vehicles or accidents, which in our current time there is no solutions too. And you can't create efficiency by continuing to add lanes. Have you considered induced demand, triple convergence? C'mon man are you just going to look at things from the surface or dig a bit deeper into the problem.

[EL Jimbo]

Incorrect. Congestion is a sign of economic vitality. It's a myth that traffic congestion creates economic loss.....a scapegoat because lost hours is something easily measurable. But you can't measure habit. You modify a commute in any way and people [[or movement off goods) will schedule accordingly Not to mention many congestion incidents are a result of disabled vehicles or accidents, which in our current time there is no solutions too. And you can't create efficiency by continuing to add lanes. Have you considered induced demand, triple convergence? C'mon man are you just going to look at things from the surface or dig a bit deeper into the problem.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I agree with you that congestion is a sign of economic vitality. It shows that there are a lot of people and goods being moved about. However, it is also a sign that economic growth has begun to exceed the capacity of the transportation system to support continued growth. By improving the efficiency of transportation to alleviate congestion, you open up opportunities for continued economic growth.

Whether it be the interstate highway system, the Panama Canal, the Transcontinental Railroad, or the roads of ancient Rome, for thousands of years nations have invested in improving transportation to reduce time and money spent moving goods and people for the sake of economic expansion. Otherwise, why invest in transportation at all? If congestion is desired, why invest in transportation at all?

Bottom line is that congestion is a only a sign of economic vitality and improving the transportation system is a creator of economic vitality. If the area you live in is congested it means it is nearing the limits of how much economic activity it can support. If you want further growth you must invest in increasing capacity.

[ghettopalmetto]

Welcome to MDOT, where the 1950s never ended!

[MikeM]

If they would standarize the Lodge interchange that would go a long way toward reducing the jams. Maybe get rid of the Lodge exit on westbound I-94 and the Chrysler exit on eastbound I-94.