Scary GOP Poll

[EastSider]

...the independents are 1) either to the right of the GOP or too embarassed to say they are Repubs in public but hold these views

That's the only two possibilities for someone being an Independent in your analysis?

[firstandten]

That's the only two possibilities for someone being an Independent in your analysis?

Not really, I understand there are true independents out there. But I also believe that there are folks hiding behind the independent label such as the two possibilities I mentioned. Determining who those people are would be really hard to find out because I doubt that these folks would be truly honest with a pollster.

Of course this doesn't have any scientific basis, but generally on the political talk shows on the radio that I listen to a caller more often than not will indentify himself as an independent then the rest of the call will consist of GOP talking points.

[oladub]

Not really, I understand there are true independents out there. But I also believe that there are folks hiding behind the independent label such as the two possibilities I mentioned. Determining who those people are would be really hard to find out because I doubt that these folks would be truly honest with a pollster.

Of course this doesn't have any scientific basis, but generally on the political talk shows on the radio that I listen to a caller more often than not will indentify himself as an independent then the rest of the call will consist of GOP talking points.

It might be because neocons and Democrats are both statists in the tradition of Hamilton. There are a lot of people still around who used to vote Republican when the Republican Party represented small government, fiscal responsibility, and a humble foreign policy who are now adrift. Since the Republican Party was taken over by neocons, some have unenthusiasticly continued to vote Republican, voted third party, or stayed home and not contibuted. The Republican Party of Bush/Cheney/Kristol is just another big government party run by the elite. Going back to 1980, I have voted for 6 independent or third party candidates, 2 Republicans, and 1 Democrat presidential candidates.

Since Democrats are in power, it doesn't make much sense to call in to criticize Bush anymore for overspending, expanding the war in Afghanistan, increasing the debt, unemployment, and recent attacks of privacy.

There are a number of voters who would vote for smaller less intrusive government but have no political home. Consider them [[us) a swing vote. Democrats did come up with a good Governor in Montana so don't assume Republicans have a lock on this constituency. Also, sometimes the real Democrat is a better option than the Democrat light Republican candidate.

[firstandten]

It might be because neocons and Democrats are both statists in the tradition of Hamilton. There are a lot of people still around who used to vote Republican when the Republican Party represented small government, fiscal responsibility, and a humble foreign policy who are now adrift. Since the Republican Party was taken over by neocons, some have unenthusiasticly continued to vote Republican, voted third party, or stayed home and not contibuted. The Republican Party of Bush/Cheney/Kristol is just another big government party run by the elite. Going back to 1980, I have voted for 6 independent or third party candidates, 2 Republicans, and 1 Democrat presidential candidates.

Since Democrats are in power, it doesn't make much sense to call in to criticize Bush anymore for overspending, expanding the war in Afghanistan, increasing the debt, unemployment, and recent attacks of privacy.

There are a number of voters who would vote for smaller less intrusive government but have no political home. Consider them [[us) a swing vote. Democrats did come up with a good Governor in Montana so don't assume Republicans have a lock on this constituency. Also, sometimes the real Democrat is a better option than the Democrat light Republican candidate.

Maybe the way this poll was structured if you weren't a registered Dem or Repub you were considered an independent. Then someone that might have voted for the Green Party or Libertarian Party or Nader would be lumped in with the independents.

If the point is the two party system is only in name and we are really talking one big party with various shades of grey, I would agree.

[rb336]

There are a lot of people still around who used to vote Republican when the Republican Party represented small government, fiscal responsibility, and a humble foreign policy who are now adrift.

and when was that? I think those people are nostalgiac for a party that never was

[ghettopalmetto]

You beat me to the punch, rb. In practice, the Republican party has *never* held to a policy of limited government, fiscal responsibility, and humble foreign policy. There is simply no historical evidence supporting any of these ideals. At best, it's just more of the same bullshit talking points prepared for mass consumption by the stupid. At worst, it's a litany of excuses for trying to take our society back to the early 19th century, when a small cadre of wealthy white men made decisions for everyone else.

[Detroitej72]

In practice, the Republican party has *never* held to a policy of limited government, fiscal responsibility, and humble foreign policy. There is simply no historical evidence supporting any of these ideals.

You got to hand it to them, they sure do a good job with their spin doctors in shaping the public's perception to the contrary though.

[oladub]

You beat me to the punch, rb. In practice, the Republican party has *never* held to a policy of limited government, fiscal responsibility, and humble foreign policy. There is simply no historical evidence supporting any of these ideals. At best, it's just more of the same bullshit talking points prepared for mass consumption by the stupid. At worst, it's a litany of excuses for trying to take our society back to the early 19th century, when a small cadre of wealthy white men made decisions for everyone else.

Oh, the righteous rhetorical talking points.

Read up on Harding and Coolidge. Harding did nothing when a Fed induced bubble burst in 1921 and unemployment soared to 11%. There were consequently some bankruptcies which allowed debt to be liquidated and the unemployment went back to something like 3.9% two year later. Now that's the change we should hope for but hopefully without scandals as occured during the Harding administration. Harding even released Eugene Debs from his political imprisonment by Roosevelt.

Coolidge oversaw an era of prosperity. He reduced taxes, the size of the military, and ended Wilson's military draft. My only criticism of his Presidency was that he didn't kill the Fed which was creating another bubble which burst under Hoover. Hoover, like Roosevelt, failed to allow debts to liquidate and stretched out the resulting depression.

"Let Well Enough Alone" - Collidge's motto. Coolidge cleaned up the corruption that occurred during the Harding administration and his popularity increased as President.

Eisenhour wan't half bad either. He tried to warn us about the growing military-industrial complex which has since been joined by pharamcetical, insurance, and banking equivalents. He ended the Koran War.

Even the problematic Richard Nixon ended Johnson's war and Roosevelt's draft.

[EMG]

Biblically, the books of 1 and 2 John use the term "antichrist" multiple times in a general way to refer to anyone who denies the deity of Jesus Christ.

The Book of Revelation refers to a Beast and a False Prophet, and numerous unpopular political figures from Nero to Hitler to Saddam Hussein have been "nominated" - obviously incorrectly - by their generations as filling those roles.

Obama may be many things, but personally I'm pretty confident that Antichrist is not one of of them.

[maxx]

I love the words used by the author. "Hatriot" and "Obama Derangement Syndrome." Very descriptive.

I heard a guy comparing this health care squabble to a lab experiment where a rat was put in a situation where it could get food by pressing a lever. Pressing the lever also shocked another rat. Eventually the rat stopped pressing the lever showing that even rats have some form of empathy. Then he said "If even rats can understand it, why can't Republicans?" ROTFLMAO!

Evidently rats have more empathy than people. Maybe calling someone a rat should be a compliment.

http://faculty.babson.edu/krollag/or...ram_exper.html

Someone did this experiment recently and got similar results. Plus ça change, plus
c'est la même chose. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[rb336]

Read up on Harding and Coolidge.

Harding implemented large-scale tarriffs to protect agriculture and manufacturing, instituted farm bail-outs and numerous other items.

Coolidge continued those policies and added at least two more programs - a flood control program and a building program - that combined for $600 million [[around 7.7 billion today) over a short term [[and that doesn't count the cost of continuing Harding's programs) alone more of a percent [[barely) of GDP per year of the program than Obama's most expensive propositions [[remember, it may be a trillion dollars, but over 10 years - 100 billion/year for a 14 trillion gdp)

also, there was this little thing called....legal child labor until 1922. It was a great era for the monied classes, not so good for the working and farming families

[maxx]

Time to heal folks it's getting nasty out there....

David Frum says that the Republicans are just so angry about being out of power, they do not think rationally.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...um_firing.html

[maxx]

So says the party that thought George Bush would declare himself king and cancel the 2008 elections. Come on, give me a break with this nonsense.

Some people have short memories.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0115-22.htm

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/bl.../2008_election
The damage is broad, deep and spreading, apparent not only in international disorder and violence, the unprecedented decline of U.S. prestige, and the flouting of our security and economic interests but also in the hollowing out of the federal government's departments and agencies, and their growing incapacity to fulfill their functions, from FEMA to the Department of Justice.

[oladub]

rb, I'm cool with Cal. At the end of the day, Coolidge reduced the national debt by a third. Coolidge cut income taxes drastically. By 1927, 98 percent of the population paid no income tax. "Every year of his one term saw the budget balanced; taxes were repeatedly cut, and Coolidge once made a speech about reducing pencil expenditures!" -Amazon book review

He even left Hoover with a $600M budget surplus despite all the tax cuts.

Bush might as well be a Democrat when compared with Calvin Coolidge. No inflation adjusted hopey-changey equivalent to a $2.4T deficit and a 78% unemployment increase after one year in office either.

Coolidge: the un Bush/Obama

Coolidge quotes;

There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration has been minding my own business.

The right thing to do never requires any subterfuge, it is always simple and direct.