Port Authority Public Dock & Terminal Rises

[MotownSpartan]

"...it's surrounded by paved roads that have no sidewalks. In terms of a tourist spot, it's a really difficult location to get to from just about anywhere except for the RenCen and the water"

Incorrect^. The facility is already connected to RenCen by the Riverwalk, eventually it will also be connected to Hart Plaza. It's position along Atwater Drive will allow taxi's and tour buses to access it.

Lowell, you are correct. There is a sidewalk along Atwater but this sidwalk contains a large concrete barrier that cuts it off from the building and the riverwalk [[it's hard to see this barrier on the google satellite image). The building is also connected to the riverwalk, but as I said, it's horribly disconnected from downtown [[especially because it's tucked in behind a much larger parking garage).

I really hope this project is successful and don't mean to be a negative nancy ... I'm just trying to be realistic about the drawbacks of that particular spot. As it stands, Hart Plaza and the Ren Cen are already fairly disconnected from the rest of downtown and don't get a lot of natural foot traffic. Even after this building is up and running, there isn't a whole lot in the immediate vincinity for tourists to go to and do [[shop, etc. ... besides the RenCen which is a fairly confusing building to navigate in, especially for a tourist).

[MotownSpartan]

I agree with most of your posts. Setting aside the issue of how long this took, since there's nothing we can do about that, let's focus on the use of the adjacent land, and model ourselves after similar successful downtown ports [[perhaps Baltimore, Boston, South Street Manhattan).

It is imperative that the Ford Auditorium is removed ASAP and rezoned for a combination of Hart Plaza expansion on the west and mixed use 2-5 story buildings on the east [[along Bates Street), so that there is a walkable and appealing stretch of street connecting downtown to the river. It is absurd that so many landmark downtown buildings have been torn down in the time that FA has been vacant and should have been removed. And normally I would support keeping the FA to avoid wasting resources and as a nod to its [brief] history, but in such a prime location, it has to go. If I was Bing or Jackson I would have the RFP for its demo and for replacement mixed use development posted today. [The Kilpatrick administration was pretty close to doing this IIRC, until some certain negative news broke]. Talk about a low-hanging fruit for encouraging downtown development! How are they missing this?!

Ideally the Miller Garage could be either phased out and rezoned for a better use, or at least renovated to look more like the new Port Auth. garages east of the Ren Cen [[with productive street-level space).

Agreed re: Miller Garage. It's unrealistic to expect this building to be phased out as it is needed for RenCen parking, however, something could certainly be done to give the building productive street-level space ... this would make a big difference in that little riverfront area. As it stands now, there's just too many large buildings, objects, int'l border crossings, etc. that don't add life to the area and really actually hurt the area in terms of walkable urban "ness". Fortunately, the river walk is down there and will have to play a large part in the success of this port authority building.

[Johnlodge]

Sure, Lowell, you can 'get there', but what's going to entice someone drifting around downtown as a visitor etc to walk there from, say, Campus Martius or Greektown? There are no appealing, properly urban streets linking Jefferson and the water [[ironically, of course, there were plenty before urban renewal), and if you walk through the Ren Cen you'll probably get lost. Lowell, would you agree that Bates St. and the FA site need to be focused on as this Port nears completion?

I'm not sure a facility like this benefits that much from random foot traffic from people drifting around downtown, being its purpose is so specific. If you want to use it, you'll find out where it is. But I would agree that it is a bit "isolated". Since you can't do much on two sides, the Ford Theater seems like the obvious answer to opening the area up a bit. But again, not sure how much benefit would come from that.

[Lowell]

A walk through Hart Plaza to Campus Martius is not daunting for the average person and would be a pleasant stroll. Likewise to walk through RenCen to the People Mover station is easy, interesting and pleasant. For the lazy and vehicle addicted types it is an easy pickup and drop off. There is a taxi stand by RenCen too.

Hey it's the Riverfront. This is primarily for people debarking not for foot wanderers. If you can think of a better location tell us. I think it is the best possible location of those available.

[MotownSpartan]

A walk through Hart Plaza to Campus Martius is not daunting for the average person and would be a pleasant stroll. Likewise to walk through RenCen to the People move station is easy, interesting and pleasant. Hey it's the Riverfront. If you can think of a better location tell us.

Agree and disagree, for your average person getting off a tourist ship at the port authority building, getting to the RenCen and then navigating through the RenCen to find the People Mover Station isn't straightforward, they will probably need to use maps and/or ask the security personnel around the building. Again, not a huge deal, but this area isn't exactly like Fisherman's Wharf in San Fran or the marina district in Baltimore in terms of its accessibility and nearby attractions.

[leland_palmer]

Plus the M1 is supposed to run all the way to Hart Plaza

[MotownSpartan]

Plus the M1 is supposed to run all the way to Hart Plaza

Good point. M1 will make a big difference in terms of moving people in and out of the area.

[Mackinaw]

Lowell, first off you missed my question [[see post 20 and 25). The PA terminal is in exactly the right place. I was imploring for further changes to what's around it, particularly the use of Bates Street, the FA site, and the Miller Garage site.

Indeed, a visitor's walk won't typically take them from other parts of downtown to the port terminal specifically, but it will take them to the same basic spot for the beautiful waterfront, which, notwithstanding any PA terminal, is and has been a destination. Getting there should be pleasant and done along a route that has many other pedestrians. I'm saying that we should pursue that aim by replanning the streets that connect Jefferson and the River-- Bates most of all.

And don't forget the reverse situation of what you addressed-- people arriving at the PA [[assuming some sort of ferries or cruises do use it) and then looking to walk. If they have accomodations at the Book or Doubletree, if they are headed to a ballgame or theatre show, why not give them every reason to walk the 1/2 to 1 mile? Especially for those unfamiliar with Detroit, if they disembark and see concrete embankments, parking garages, and an abandoned auditorium between them and the downtown core, they'll probably take the cabs that are waiting there. And when M1 rail is built and there's a station at HP, we'd rather see the service get used; it will get some additional use if people coming from the PA have a well-lit, appealing sidewalk taking them from the water to the station at Jefferson.

Again, the PA Terminal is a great thing where it is, but let's capitalize on it more fully.

[Lowell]

I couldn't agree with you more about that eyesore of the Miller Garage. Its removal and, unfortunately, Ford Auditorium too with extension of Hart Plaza would be terrific. My point was that once the Riverwalk, currently blocked at the Hart Plaza tunnel, allows free movement it will make a lot more sense. I would love to see that ugly ass Police parking lot by the tunnel gone. I have to believe that is in the plans.

[Bullet]

Hey, that place is fuckin...huge.Ha ha ha! This is a building? I suppose its 'green', so let's not make an impression on those three people strolling along the shore or visiting here. "com-on America, get some nuts and build a fucking skyscraper or something. That thing is a shoe box with chrome underwear.

[Retroit]

They are expecting 100 passenger boats, not 5000 passenger ocean liners.

[gnome]

Bullet, are we to divine from your post that you have issues with chrome underwear?

[Downriviera]

Whatever happened to the guys that wanted to do the cable cars from Hart Plaza to Windsor. Kwame shot them down, but maybe Bing would go for it.

[leland_palmer]

The view from the flip side.

[DetroitPlanner]

Whatever happened to the guys that wanted to do the cable cars from Hart Plaza to Windsor. Kwame shot them down, but maybe Bing would go for it.

Kwame shot them down??? That was a pre 9-11 thing! Kwame was not mayor when these were talked about. Customs and Immigration had issues with the cable cars. I am pretty sure it was Windsor and its Casino that could not decide on a suitable landing spot. Detroit was going to start it around Ford Auditorium.

[casscorridor]

Kwame shot them down??? That was a pre 9-11 thing! Kwame was not mayor when these were talked about. Customs and Immigration had issues with the cable cars. I am pretty sure it was Windsor and its Casino that could not decide on a suitable landing spot. Detroit was going to start it around Ford Auditorium.

Oh wow. I really wish this would have happened. I hope it will still happen.

I'm sure it would become a landmark, known across both Canada and the U.S. and even globally.

[kryptonite]

Kwame shot them down??? That was a pre 9-11 thing! Kwame was not mayor when these were talked about. Customs and Immigration had issues with the cable cars. I am pretty sure it was Windsor and its Casino that could not decide on a suitable landing spot. Detroit was going to start it around Ford Auditorium.

Back in the 1980's when Coleman was mayor, a Detroit/Windsor cable car plan died because Windsor refused to put up any money for the project.

[DetroitPlanner]

Oh wow. I really wish this would have happened. I hope it will still happen.

I'm sure it would become a landmark, known across both Canada and the U.S. and even globally.

Same company that owns it is shopping it to Quebec and Montreal. They are not getting any buyers. The gondola cars are really quite old and come from the 1984 World's Fair in New Orleans. It did not work in New Orleans and has had issues in every other City they tried to put it in, to use it to cross an international boundary, particularly in a post-9-11 freak-out, it is doubtful.