Grow Detroit through immigration

[kraig]

Nice strategy. I'll even give Tobocman credit for doing a good job. I just hope that if the City adopts this strategy, it looks at accepting all the new people and the cultures that are brought with them, along reasonable lines, and not harass the hell out of them as is currently done.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...ION03/3180422/

[iheartthed]

Attracting immigrants is about the only way possible to grow Detroit City again. If you look at data for pre-war boom cities that managed to stabilize their population declines better than Detroit, every single one of them did so through attracting foreign-born immigrants to the inner-city. As I have said before, saving Detroit does not start by trying to attract suburbanites to give up their houses and move back to the city. Detroit needs to be made an attractive place to people who don't already live in the metropolitan area.

[dtowncitylover]

Sounds good me.

Not to deter from the subject, but I always thought Detroit should have a land grab. Have city officials plot out all the empty lots in the city. Place flags on them. Then at high noon, shoot that starting pistol into the air and have people race for the different plots. In order to keep your plot, probably big enough for a single-family home, you have to start build something within 6 months or face giving the land back to the city. This should be internationally advertised so that immigrants do come. Isn't land the greatest thing to own?

[lilpup]

more insterested in achieving a functioning Detroit before worried about growing it - am wary of this overemphasis on the need for size just for size's sake - more people won't automatically solve the problems, more likely will conpound those already present and introduce new ones

[iheartthed]

more insterested in achieving a functioning Detroit before worried about growing it - am wary of this overemphasis on the need for size just for size's sake - more people won't automatically solve the problems, more likely will conpound those already present and introduce new ones

Well, attracting foreign immigrants can also be looked at as a means to stabilize Detroit's population, which will be needed to achieve a functioning Detroit. Case in point, much is made about the middle class black families leaving Detroit for the suburban areas, but this isn't exactly a Detroit phenomenon. There is a nationwide trend of middle class black families leaving the inner-city, but other cities have been able to stabilize their populations by attracting immigrants.

[elfez]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilpup
more insterested in achieving a functioning Detroit before worried about growing it - am wary of this overemphasis on the need for size just for size's sake - more people won't automatically solve the problems, more likely will conpound those already present and introduce new ones.

Agreed. Good Luck intergrating a new Foreign Population into the hood. As friendly as we might like to think of ourselves, a great many Detroiters aren't going to accept a bunch immigrants, with their foreign languages and customs. Sorry, but I see it daily.

[milesdriven]

Immigrants usually flock to areas which have an abundance of employment, something that Detroit is lacking.

[DetroitPlanner]

Why not? It worked for Hamtramck!

[Fury13]

Attracting immigrants really is the only way the city will stabilize and grow. The major obstacle to attracting people is the crime problem. Another challenge may be the current power structure's desire to maintain Detroit's status quo as a "black city."

Of course, if there are no jobs here, no one will want to come anyway.

[Danny]

Attracting new immigrants to Detroit is great ideal. However Detroit does have a lot of regionalizational, dilapidated Detroit Public Schools districts, political and race, and urban crime problems all over its ghettohoods:

1. Detroit needs to get on the regionalizational bandwagon. New altenative jobs needs to be established to welcome an influx of immigrants. Isolation and keeping other folks out of Detroit is not the solution. Detroit back then was 85% white, from 1701 to 1975 that didn't last long. Detroit today is 85% Black from 1975 to present. That will not last long after 2050. Detroit might become 40% mixed race like Arab Muslims and Chaldeans and East Indians and Mexicans and Hispanics and few younger whites from 2050 to the 21st Century. That will not last long. Detroit might be 40% Centurians and 40% Tau Ceti Alien race and 16% Humans from the 2100 to beyond. That might last long for thousands of years while those aliens take away our humanity and our planet.

2. Detroit can attract new immigrants if we Detroiters put away politicial corruption, race cards and happy talk. So many city leader talking about " We must do this and we must do that."I say just shut up and do it." Everyone should be leaders in our ghettohoods and clean up yourselves. Then you all can fix up your ghettohoods and turn them into real neighborhoods where we see no more vacant and abandon buildings. No more looking at street pharmacists doing their 'Drugs R' Us' sales on every street corners. No more looking at common house fires where familis not only lost their possessions but also loved ones as well.

3. Detroit can attract immigrants if the Detroit Public School district fix its educational problems. Of course emergence financial manager Robert Bobb is doing 'Joe Clark's H.N.I.C.'s' job of cleaning up corruption in the school board, shutting down 44 schools and downsizing class sizes. However DPS has a long way to go. Folks, of you all want a better DPS school districts, help your children to learn how to read, write and do math. Some of the Detroit's ghettohoods may come from broken homes, but their broken hearts needs to be repaired through education and love so they can be prepared to perform the American dream and do the impossible.

4. Detroit can attract new immgrants by reducing street crime. Over the past 40 years even after the 1967 riot, Detroiters everywhere in the ghettohoods and in the streets are joining gangs, getting rob, shot, killed, conned by others. Brothers killing brothers and sisters fighting sisters. We need to cut that out! Detroiters, we should be the police force, not the Detroit Police. Start community policing, block clubs, do 'walking the beat' [[as in patrolling your ghettohoods). That would keep the perps out.

If we can do all of the things instead of crying to your corrupt city leaders, than Detroit would be a better place to attact new wave of immigrants.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHETS

In memoriam: Neda Soltani

[jcole]

I swear to God that when I glanced at the title of this thread I thought it said 'Grow Detroit Through Intimidation'

[English]

Kraig, as one of those black middle-class Detroiters, I have long said that we need immigration into the city. Part of what makes a city great is its diversity -- and I can say without malice that a place that is over 75% black isn't all that diverse.

I also don't think dtowncitylover's land grab idea is all that farfetched. In fact, there's historical precedent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Act

[kraig]

Kraig, as one of those black middle-class Detroiters, I have long said that we need immigration into the city. Part of what makes a city great is its diversity -- and I can say without malice that a place that is over 75% black isn't all that diverse.

I also don't think dtowncitylover's land grab idea is all that farfetched. In fact, there's historical precedent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Act

I'm right there with you. When I moved back into the City I chose the Southwest side because of it's diversity. If I don't have the opportunity to travel all of the world, I would like for small parts of the world to be close by.

[ndavies]

Immigrants move to cities for exactly the same reasons non-immigrants move to other cities. They move to places to improve their way of life.

They want safe places to live, city services that work, good schools and jobs. If I made the effort to move half way around the world would I move to Detroit and it's current mess or would I move to somewhere that was more likely to prosper. Name one reason an immigrant would currently choose Detroit over any other city in the nation.

Immigrants aren't going to save Detroit, without Detroit fixing itself first. What makes you think immigrants will put up with anymore crap than native people will? Immigrants aren't stupid, They are leaving their current lives to get better ones.

[English]

Detroit is more attractive to immigrant business owners than you might think, especially from the global south.

[daddeeo]

No jobs = no people.
These people better have jobs or a bad situation would only get worse.

[ndavies]

Detroit is more attractive to immigrant business owners than you might think, especially from the global south.

Once again, why would an immigrant choose Detroit over any other U.S. city. Their requirements are exactly the same as any locally born citizen. If you can't recruit citizens how are you going to recruit non citizens. What makes you think their standards for a better life are any lower than the people who already live in this country.

My family moved here from overseas in the late 60's, I came here by jet. My family moved here for a better life. Being a highly educated mechanical engineer, My father chose Detroit for it's high tech manufacturing capabilities and the availability of jobs in his field. If we were doing the same now, Detroit would not have even made the list of destinations we would have chosen. In the 60's it was number one on my families list.

My father left Detroit for a better job in Alabama the late 80's. He followed the manufacturing there. He happily retired and lived the rest of his days there.

[EastsideAl]

Once again, why would an immigrant choose Detroit over any other U.S. city..

One big reason: inexpensive land and housing.

When I lived in NYC I lived in some very immigrant-heavy neighborhoods. One of the main things that almost all of the immigrant families there were striving for was the possibility of owning a home, and possibly some investment properties. Something that would have been difficult or impossible for them back in their previous countries. Even neighborhoods that were considered "bad" or worse by older New Yorkers had a lot of economic activity and were being revitalized by an ongoing influx of immigrants due to the relatively inexpensive property there. Of course, even a shack or a vacant lot in those "bad" NYC neighborhoods cost a few times what a really nice house in the City of Detroit costs.

Increased immigration, and the economic activity it would inevitably generate, would be a boon to Detroit and the Detroit area. As Det_ard's map indicates, the relative lack of it is one major reasons that Detroit has fallen behind other cities in the country. The southwest side, despite being poverty-stricken by American standards, is the most densely populated and economically active part of Detroit. And, not coincidentally, is also the only sizable part of the city with any significant presence of immigrants. Anything that encourages more immigration into the city can only be a good thing.

[Hypestyles]

I personally welcome it.. Africa, Asia, Europe, South America, all should be outreached.. But I fear for the reaction of certain urban Detroit activists & pundits, it can all too easily get spun into a Nativist thing, "They're trying to bring in [[fill in the blank) group to push black people aside!".. [[even if the 'other group' includes Haitians, Nigerians, etc.)

[Mackinaw]

Yes, yes, absolutely YES.

Might wanna fight for some immigration reform, too. Talk to your Congresspeople.

[English]

Once again, why would an immigrant choose Detroit over any other U.S. city. Their requirements are exactly the same as any locally born citizen. If you can't recruit citizens how are you going to recruit non citizens. What makes you think their standards for a better life are any lower than the people who already live in this country.

My family moved here from overseas in the late 60's, I came here by jet. My family moved here for a better life. Being a highly educated mechanical engineer, My father chose Detroit for it's high tech manufacturing capabilities and the availability of jobs in his field. If we were doing the same now, Detroit would not have even made the list of destinations we would have chosen. In the 60's it was number one on my families list.

My father left Detroit for a better job in Alabama the late 80's. He followed the manufacturing there. He happily retired and lived the rest of his days there.

With all due respect, this is not the 1960s or 1980s. This is 30 years later.

Did anyone even read the article I posted? There are studies showing the turn. A change is coming. Many large metros that have been traditionally associated with immigrants are too expensive for newcomers to set up small shops in.

[ndavies]

With all due respect, this is not the 1960s or 1980s. This is 30 years later.

Did anyone even read the article I posted? There are studies showing the turn. A change is coming. Many large metros that have been traditionally associated with immigrants are too expensive for newcomers to set up small shops in.

Yes, I did read you article. and it states.

[quote]

"Newly arriving immigrants are likely to settle where there are job opportunities and affordable places to live,” says Ira Mehlman, spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. “It also dispels one of the key assertions of the immigration enthusiasts [[who) often look at the fact that immigrants tend to congregate in areas of the country where the economy is most robust, and conclude that immigration is the cause of economic growth. This study suggests that they are confusing cause and effect. If a robust economy exists, the effect will be an influx of immigrants." [\quote]

So we have affordable places to live. Other than that we have nothing. Thisis exactly what I am arguing. Fix the local economy, the city services and the schools and people will flock here.

It may not be 30 years ago, however immigrants mov to places for the exact same reasons they moved to places 30 years ago. They want a better life. Number 1 on the list of things needed for a better life is a good job. Followed closely by good schools for htier children. The last thing they want is a unsafe enviroment with crappy schools.

What everyone fails to realize is that the immigrants we are currently bringing into the country are highly educated people. The current immigration laws give priority to doctors and engineers. So without high paying jobs you will bring very few of them to the region.

Most of the recent immigration into the area has been Chinese and Indian engineers. Without the auto industry pulling these people in there would be very few immigrants coming here.

[English]

Yes, I did read you article.

Thank you.

So we have affordable places to live. Other than that we have nothing.

This is exactly the reason why not only Detroit, but SE Michigan is in the state that it is in.

Thisis exactly what I am arguing. Fix the local economy, the city services and the schools and people will flock here.

Sigh. Look, if we have nothing, as you say -- then how on earth are we to make all these fixes happen?

It may not be 30 years ago, however immigrants mov to places for the exact same reasons they moved to places 30 years ago. They want a better life. Number 1 on the list of things needed for a better life is a good job. Followed closely by good schools for htier children. The last thing they want is a unsafe enviroment with crappy schools.

I've traveled extensively. Detroit is more unsafe than many places in the Western world, but there are many, many places on the globe where life expectancy and opportunities are lower.

I'm a product of those crappy Detroit schools, coming from working class inner city Detroit parents without a college education, and I've done quite well for myself. So have thousands of other people. I love it when people don't see us coming. Also there is the satisfaction that we had to work twice as hard with half of the resources in order to get a fraction as far.

Finally, "unsafe environment" and "crappy schools" are features of many urban environments. I have met smart city kids from all over the country, and the stories that kids from East L.A and South Central L.A. have are stories that I could never relate to. Lots of these friends are the kids of Asian and Latino immigrants, and they talk about what growing up in Chicago or L.A. or Philly in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s was like. It was no different than growing up in Detroit... if not worse. I didn't have to worry about the colors I wore on the bus as a teenager, for instance.

Immigrants gravitate towards certain communities not just because there are jobs there, but because there are other immigrants there. People make choices for a whole host of reasons.

What everyone fails to realize is that the immigrants we are currently bringing into the country are highly educated people. The current immigration laws give priority to doctors and engineers. So without high paying jobs you will bring very few of them to the region.

Immigration laws can be changed. In fact, if amnesty comes, they will be, mark my words. What a great opportunity to offer amnesty in exchange for residence in places like Detroit, New Orleans...

Most of the recent immigration into the area has been Chinese and Indian engineers. Without the auto industry pulling these people in there would be very few immigrants coming here.

Once this region stops looking backwards into the past while trying to move forward, and then being surprised when we trip over our own two feet... we'll be fine. We may have to wait until time culls away some of the old resentments and hatreds, but I guarantee you, folks won't care about the same stuff by mid-century.

[English]

What jobs are the Chaldean and/or Korean merchant classes in the city taking from residents that would have been available if they themselves were not present?

Our inability to think ourselves out of the cave of our own making here in Detroit, in the state of Michigan, and increasingly in our nation, will be our undoing.

[Hermod]

What jobs are the Chaldean and/or Korean merchant classes in the city taking from residents that would have been available if they themselves were not present?

1. They are not taking any jobs from residents. Detroit's current residents are not interested in operating small grocery stores and dry cleaners.

2. There is a finite limit on the total number of Koreans and Lebanese that can support themselves by running small stores in Detroit. That would put a limit of growing the city through immigration.