Right turn on red

The Dude · March-12-10, 10:01 PM

I didn't know that right turn on red was legal in Michigan in the 1930's. Didn't think it was legal until the mid 1970's.

**eriedearie** · March-12-10, 10:47 PM

I think you're correct. I don't remember being allowed to do that when I started driving. Maybe Ray1936 will chime in and set the record straight on that law.

**Huggybear** · March-13-10, 12:01 AM

Gerald Ford popularized it nationwide.

**MDoyle** · March-13-10, 12:28 AM

Having lived in CA for the last 7 months yet growing up in Michigan, coming back I find Michigan lefts unbearably annoying. I'm extremely disappointed every time they make another intersection downtown a "no left turn". It works fine everywhere else with 2 times the traffic volume. Why the Michigan left?

The Dude · March-14-10, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by MDoyle

Having lived in CA for the last 7 months yet growing up in Michigan, coming back I find Michigan lefts unbearably annoying. I'm extremely disappointed every time they make another intersection downtown a "no left turn". It works fine everywhere else with 2 times the traffic volume. Why the Michigan left?

I used to feel the same way. But , if you want to have left turns on median roads, here's what would and will happen. First, they would have to move the medians back so there can room for left turns and UE's. Now let's say you are appoaching the intersection and the light is turning red for you. First, the cross street has the left green signal, then the thru green signal, then your street has the left green and finally the thru green. This causes backups. I know, this the way it's done in Florida [[Tampa Bay area). Better off one driver gets annoyed then a line of drivers getting annoyed waiting minutes for the lights.

**Hamtragedy** · March-13-10, 12:29 AM

Maybe Ray can chime in on all those "Complete Left Turn On Red When Traffic Clears" which line Outer Drive. As a result of those signs, I treat most similar intersections [[East bd Davison Ave to Jeffries entrance, for example), where there is no sign. Right or Wrong?

**313WX** · March-13-10, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Maybe Ray can chime in on all those "Complete Left Turn On Red When Traffic Clears" which line Outer Drive. As a result of those signs, I treat most similar intersections [[East bd Davison Ave to Jeffries entrance, for example), where there is no sign. Right or Wrong?

I suppose it would depends on the size of the median in between the intersection & the overall size of the road ones turning onto. For example, on narrow streets such as Mack through Grosse Pointe, it would prevent congestion on the side you're turning from because there's only so much stopping room for each car.

However, I don't believe this applies on the turning left intersections along 8 Mile [[Kelly, Gratiot, Groesbeck, Hoover, etc.).

**MikeM** · March-13-10, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

For example, on narrow streets such as Mack through Grosse Pointe, it would prevent congestion on the side you're turning from because there's only so much stopping room for each car.

Also, if you can't fit in the median quit blocking the left lane. Drive up to the next break to turn, it's only a hundred feet.

**313WX** · March-14-10, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Also, if you can't fit in the median quit blocking the left lane. Drive up to the next break to turn, it's only a hundred feet.

As far as I know, it's not ILLEGAL to block that lane if you're turning [[one could experience the same situation at all the medians), so why should one inconvenience themselves?

**mkhopper** · March-15-10, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Also, if you can't fit in the median quit blocking the left lane. Drive up to the next break to turn, it's only a hundred feet.

Similar to this problem is something I see all the time at Ford Rd and Telegraph.
Drivers going south on Tele. who weren't able to use the cutover turn to go east on Ford. So instead they swing into the first turnaround in the median and then want to cross all 4 lanes of northbound Tele. to turn right onto Ford.

I just don't understand why people can't drive the extra 1/8th mile down to the next turnaround, where traffic is much lighter and it is easier to get across. But every day, there they are forcing their way into the road, blocking all lanes.

I was hoping that when they rebuilt that whole intersection, they'd take that turnaround out completely.

**zitro** · March-15-10, 11:15 AM

Not quite a right turn on red story but similiar. It was 1974-75 I was attending CCS the first year the new building was opened. A gal student and I decided to go to lunch, there used to be [[maybe there still is) a McDonald's on Woodward just north of East Grand Blvd. I head north on Brush to EGB and head west to Woodward. I make a right turn on Woodward on green heading north.

I look in my rearview mirror and I see a DPD on a horse kind of galloping behind me, so I treat it like any other emergency vehicle and pull over so he can pass. He stops behind me and gets off his horse and tells me there is no right turn on Woodward at that interesection!! So he proceeds to write me ticket.

I actually got pulled over by McCloud for ticket!! I went back to the intersection and it was one of those with a myriad of signs and sure enough there was no right turn. I believe it stayed like this for 4-5 years later and then was removed.

I still laugh about this one today

**Big Dog** · March-13-10, 12:52 AM

Most drivers today do not know that when turning left at an intersection, an on coming car turning right has the right of way. At a light, people turning left, cut in front of my right hand turn, most of the time. It they hit me, they will receive a ticket and heavy fine. Didn't mean to hijack the thread

**SMRJim** · March-13-10, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Most drivers today do not know that when turning left at an intersection, an on coming car turning right has the right of way. At a light, people turning left, cut in front of my right hand turn, most of the time. It they hit me, they will receive a ticket and heavy fine. Didn't mean to hijack the thread

One of my pet peeves. I have to wonder what they're teaching people these days in drivers ed. And people get REALLY carried away with using the turn lane as a 'merging' lane when making lefts out of parking lots, etc. Then there's the right-on-red folks who think they have the right of way over someone going thru the green light. Could start a whole other thread on this type of stuff!

**Thames** · March-13-10, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Most drivers today do not know that when turning left at an intersection, an on coming car turning right has the right of way. At a light, people turning left, cut in front of my right hand turn, most of the time. It they hit me, they will receive a ticket and heavy fine. Didn't mean to hijack the thread

Also, most drivers don't know that when they turn onto a street that has more than one lane in the direction they wish to travel, they are to stay in the lane closest to them. If they need to change lanes, they should do so after they have completed their turn, not while they are turning.

If a right turn driver turns into the left side lane, they shouldn't be too surprised if they get hit from a left turner, turning into the proper [[left) lane.

The Dude · March-13-10, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Most drivers today do not know that when turning left at an intersection, an on coming car turning right has the right of way. At a light, people turning left, cut in front of my right hand turn, most of the time. It they hit me, they will receive a ticket and heavy fine. Didn't mean to hijack the thread

That's true, Big Dog, except where I have a green left arrow and you have a redlight, even though there is not a "No Turn On Red" sign there.

**SMRJim** · March-13-10, 02:54 PM

It may have been legal back in the 30s but it definitely wasn't when I got my license in 1976. From what I can remember it became legal again some time in the 80s, maybe the late 70s.

**Ray1936** · March-13-10, 03:18 PM

Right turn on red was initiated about 1972 during the Arab Oil Embargo, along with the 55 mph speed limit. It was enacted to save a bit of gas, which it does. I believe it initially was permitted in the 30's, but ended late in that decade.

I just have to comment that the "right turn on red" still means you must come to a complete stop before proceding and making the right turn. Most people just roll through the intersection without stopping, and for that you CAN receive a ticket for "failing to stop for a red light".

As for the lefts on Outer Drive, I have no idea. Been away too long.

One more comment. We all complain about stupid drivers, or drivers doing stupid things. Well, I see 'em, too....but for every dumb move, I see a thousand drivers proceding normally and in a safe fashion. The yokels just seem to stand out, don't they?

Back in the sixties, the DPD had a program of traffic officers watching for drivers making especially safe or courteous moves. They were stopped and rewarded with gift certificates for some merchants, and those with perfect driving records [[checked later) were invited to a final "drive-off" to see who was the safest driver of all. The winner got a nice $250 US savings bond, with $100 bonds to the rest of the participants. It was a nice program; would like to see it again.

**xphillipjrx** · March-13-10, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

They were stopped and rewarded with gift certificates for some merchants...

People these days would get pissed about getting stopped, even if there was a compliment or a reward behind it.

**313WX** · March-13-10, 03:57 PM

Well since everyone wants to be a driving nazi, it pisses me off when people in the left turning lane at a busy intersection sit behind the stopping line and wait unti the light turns red to make their turn [[messing up everyone else behind you).

MOVE UP!

**Thames** · March-13-10, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Well since everyone wants to be a driving nazi, it pisses me off when people in the left turning lane at a busy intersetion sit behind the stopping line wait unti the light turns red to make their turn.

MOVE UP!

Yep, that's another piss off. Good point.

**Jimaz** · March-13-10, 04:52 PM

If there are two adjacent right-turn-only lanes, can you turn right on red from each of them? [[This is a case where it's particularly important to stay in your lane.) I'd assume so, but this is all the state's What Every Driver Must Know booklet says about it:

Right Turns on Red Lights

Unless a sign tells you "no turn on red," you may turn right at a red light after coming to a complete stop. You must yield to pedestrians and approaching traffic. Make sure after you look to the left for approaching vehicles and pedestrians, that you also check again for pedestrians in front of you before turning. Then turn carefully.

**313WX** · March-14-10, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

If there are two adjacent right-turn-only lanes, can you turn right on red from each of them? [[This is a case where it's particularly important to stay in your lane.) I'd assume so, but this is all the state's What Every Driver Must Know booklet says about it:

I suppose one good example of this would be Gunston intersecting Gratiot.

I know I've seen people do it numerous times [[in the lnae furthest from the curb), despite the police station being right there. So I also assume it's legal.

**Gistok** · March-13-10, 06:37 PM

What really irritates me is the newly implemented "blinking left yellow arrow"! At some intersections in the day time these go from blinking yellow left arrow... to solid green left arrow... to solid red light. But at night they go from blinking yellow left arrow... to solid red light.

That catches a lot of drivers off guard!

EastSider · March-14-10, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

What really irritates me is the newly implemented "blinking left yellow arrow"! At some intersections in the day time these go from blinking yellow left arrow... to solid green left arrow... to solid red light. But at night they go from blinking yellow left arrow... to solid red light.

That catches a lot of drivers off guard!

The solid green is used only for higher traffic-count hours. The programming assumes that there is enough time to complete any left turns during the other times.

And that's accurate if people know what they're doing. When the light flashes yellow, you move into the intersection and prepare to turn. It doesn't matter if the light turns red then, because you're legally in the intersection and can complete your turn.