American Consumer Survey

[jcole]

OR drive on government built roads, park in FREE parking provided by communities, use any parks, visit any museums, look at informative signage, call the police or fire departments for help in an emergency,,,

Or use public streetlights, accept Medicare...

[oladub]

Not only that, but they don't hesitate to fill out a lengthy form with many personal questions, including bank account numbers and Social Security number to get a credit card.
Oladub, I assume you would never do that, so you don't have credit cards, right?
I'm also assuming that people that refuse to help their community by filling out the above-mentioned form because the government is intrusive and stealing all of our money through taxation would never accept Social Security payments from said government?

You confuse private and voluntary relationships with state mandates. I am uncomfortable with some private relationships too. Google, for instance, keeps logs. However, a big concern with Google or credit card companies is again government access to their records. Beginning next year, for instance, our government will be expanding its reach to monitor out of state sales. If more than $10,000 is taken out of a bank, the bank has to report the transaction to the IRS. I found this out when I had a college bill to pay. So you are right about private businesses especially in their relationship to required government snooping. By law, Social Security numbers were never intended as tracking devices.

The intent of having a head count census every ten years is only to provide equal representation in Congress. I do encourage everyone to voluntarily cooperate with the Census Bureau to attain that goal. No punishments were provided for not doing so but it is a sensible idea. What I have been criticizing here is how the Census Bureau has somehow been allowed to morph into an agency with more powers than courts, sticking its nose up everyone's rear, and punishing anyone who doesn't bend over. The enthusiasm of some of its victims is somewhat surprising - maybe just a case of Stockholm Syndrome.

I have been forced to pay into Social Security and the IRS. You better believe that I will try to get back whatever portion I am legally allowed to in the form of monthly checks or refunds. Since the Clinton/Gingrich team monkeyed with how the cost of living is calculated, most of us will never recover what we contributed to SS because SS cost of living increases no longer reflect the actual cost of living. My suggestion would be to tie increase SS benefits to raises in Congressional pay.

edited to include-

gazhekwe adds, "OR drive on government built roads, park in FREE parking provided by communities, use any parks, visit any museums, look at informative signage, call the police or fire departments for help in an emergency,,,"

My local community and State provides everyone of those things and , at least in my community, local officials have a pretty good idea of such local needs. The DOT, for instance keeps track of local traffic volume and to decide where roads are needed.

Social Security and Medicare already have their own records of program contributors and their ages.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe the Census Bureau can adopt Homeland Security technology to glean information from citizens. It sounds like there is support for compliance on this board. If non-cooperators could just be marched through this Stoshmobile while listening to CensusuBureau soundtracks, [["Are you Caucasian", "Do you own ducks", "Do you have a flush toilet", "Do you own your house outright", etc) brain scan and biometric readings could be used to fill out forms without the threat of fines.

[gazhekwe]

You could look at it this way. People are like the cells of the community organism. The ones who go about their business working toward the health of the community are like the normal healthy cells of the body.

Then you have the wild card cells/people, who don't behave in a manner conducive to community health. If they can agglomerate to a degree that significantly impacts the community, then the health of the community suffers.

[jiminnm]

Where does the US Constitution provide a right to privacy? In Bowers v. Lawrence, the US Supreme Court said it lies in 14th amendment due process. This is a continuation of the "penumbra" of privacy rights established in Roe v. Wade [[one of the most confusing and convoluted decisions you will ever read), which built on the privacy right the court developed in Griswold v. Connecticut.

BTW, I received a similar detailed questionnaire in 2000. I answered some of the questions, but felt others were too intrusive and didn't answer those. I never heard anything else about it.

[Detroitnerd]

BTW, I received a similar detailed questionnaire in 2000. I answered some of the questions, but felt others were too intrusive and didn't answer those. I never heard anything else about it.

I did the same thing.

[Stosh]

Maybe the Census Bureau can adopt Homeland Security technology to glean information from citizens. It sounds like there is support for compliance on this board. If non-cooperators could just be marched through this Stoshmobile while listening to CensusuBureau soundtracks, [["Are you Caucasian", "Do you own ducks", "Do you have a flush toilet", "Do you own your house outright", etc) brain scan and biometric readings could be used to fill out forms without the threat of fines.

I guess that you aren't gonna respond to that Jefferson letter I posted. he's right. The Constitution SHOULD be changed every few years to reflect changing times. That would avoid all this pissing about in most cases. Of course, that would remove all of your reasons to post here, wouldn't it?

Boy, some people just can't be pleased, huh? Sounds like you've been overtaken by some as of yet unnamed syndrome that renders one incapable of rational thought. I find the Stoshmobile thing laughable. Read the replies below the movie to gauge the type of people that read this stuff. Sound like you? One of the nice things about something like that is the fact that it removes the excuse that it violates any modesty requirements of religion. Of course, Oladumb will probably object to that too.

I suppose that you would want us to return to the days where nobody would be required to be searched at all, at airports or public buildings. I'd like that too, but probably not practical, considering that there are nuts from within and without more than willing to splatter your body parts about if given half the chance. Then if you DON'T stop them, you have people pissing about being weak on terrorism...

So now you have no problem filling out the census form.. Stick to your story? Not possible. Maybe you should move to a waffle house?

My local community and State provides everyone of those things and , at least in my community, local officials have a pretty good idea of such local needs. The DOT, for instance keeps track of local traffic volume and to decide where roads are needed.

Your local community doesn't get the money for roads and the fringe benefits in your community just from your local taxes, either. Ever hear of CDBG funds? Now you are just being myopic.

[johnsmith]

THAT I agree with. But the overarching paranoia, not so much. They already know more than YOU know about you. Same with many corporations. But people blindly enter "contests" and click on ads in web pages. Your proclivities are known already.

Since they already apparently know all of the information about me, then there is absolutely no need to report anything more than a headcount on the Census.

[johnsmith]

The Constitution SHOULD be changed every few years to reflect changing times.

And that's why the founding fathers allowed for the amending process.

[Stosh]

Since they already apparently know all of the information about me, then there is absolutely no need to report anything more than a headcount on the Census.

Great. That's all they ask for too. 10 questions.

Of course they want to know how old that head is,what color, and ethnicity, and other relevant things about said head that they want to know.

[Gistok]

Well you really didn't waste your time. But now you are being abusive.

I am just answering your baseless fear related questions with some measure of humor. Note the by my PW remark. You really need to take this board, and by extention yourself, a lot less seriously.

Ummmm I was merely pointing out that we're bombarded almost daily by scam artists... and you call it baseless fear? You must not have read my entire thread [[where I got scammed), or you probably wouldn't have used the weak analogy of theatre tours...

[Stosh]

And that's why the founding fathers allowed for the amending process.

Not quite. He felt the WHOLE thing needed to be refreshed every 19 years..

[Stosh]

Ummmm I was merely pointing out that we're bombarded almost daily by scam artists... and you call it baseless fear? You must not have read my entire thread [[where I got scammed), or you probably wouldn't have used the weak analogy of theatre tours...

No, I never saw that thread. Sorry that you got scammed. I suppose it is a valid fear, but if it happens, well let's just say that one is powerless to do anything about it. It's just a damned shame that's the case there.

[oladub]

Originally Posted by johnsmith
And that's why the founding fathers allowed for the amending process.

Not quite. He felt the WHOLE thing needed to be refreshed every 19 years..

johnsmith is correct. Whatever Jefferson 'felt' but chose not to act on is superceded by what was put into and remains in the Constitution. Stosh, if you want to, there are amendment mechanisms in the Constitution that do allow you to refresh it every 19 years or even more often. That might make you, and possibly Jefferson, happy. Although I'm concerned that you might revise it to read more like a cross between the former Soviet Union's constitution and the Enabling Act, my special request, just a small request, when you get busy on this project would be to repeal the 16th Amendment.

Your local community doesn't get the money for roads and the fringe benefits in your community just from your local taxes, either. Ever hear of CDBG funds? Now you are just being myopic.

No need to swoon. Let's get rid of CDBG funds too. This is another dubious federal program outside the scope of the powers granted Congress under the 10th Amendment. Let the States and local communities decide if they want to spend money on such things as local signage and hiking trails instead of taxing people in one state to give to another state when they might want it spent on the same thing locally instead. Really, local people know more about local needs than bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.. ands should be able to accomplish most things for less money. We don't need to fodder useless bureaucrats in the census bureau, some CD bureau, the Federal Department of Education, and other bureaucratic redundancies.

[rb336]

Jefferson felt that the Constitution should be rewritten every 19 years or so, to reflect the changing times. How can you hang your hat on one line of text is beyond me.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found.../v1ch2s23.html

that seems to be more of a thought exercise than an actual argument he believed in. they addressed the generational principals by making various aspects purposefully vague, so future generations could self-define them

[Stosh]

johnsmith is correct. Whatever Jefferson 'felt' but chose not to act on is superceded by what was put into and remains in the Constitution. Stosh, if you want to, there are amendment mechanisms in the Constitution that do allow you to refresh it every 19 years or even more often. That might make you, and possibly Jefferson, happy. Although I'm concerned that you might revise it to read more like a cross between the former Soviet Union's constitution and the Enabling Act, my special request, just a small request, when you get busy on this project would be to repeal the 16th Amendment.

I cn see where you would be happy to do that, but no. you still have to pay your fair share.

Cross Post to Oladub is Cheap Thread.

And your obscure references to my way of thinking and others are tedious at best. You remind me of someone that is quite full of themselves; thinking they are mentally and morally superior. THAT is a laugh. Cut and paste intellectualism isn't that impressive. Perhaps come up with an original thought?

Here's one to mull over. Since you are so dead set against the census being paid by the federal government, and accusing the corporations of benefitting more from it, why don't they sponsor it? Allow ads on all federal forms. Pays for some of that, and then you can get back to your ducks and flushing toilet?

No need to swoon. Let's get rid of CDBG funds too. This is another dubious federal program outside the scope of the powers granted Congress under the 10th Amendment. Let the States and local communities decide if they want to spend money on such things as local signage and hiking trails instead of taxing people in one state to give to another state when they might want it spent on the same thing locally instead. Really, local people know more about local needs than bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.. ands should be able to accomplish most things for less money. We don't need to fodder useless bureaucrats in the census bureau, some CD bureau, the Federal Department of Education, and other bureaucratic redundancies.

Once again, myopia. It's rather ignorant to suggest such a thing, although it would be attractive to just eliminate the US taxes all together, then put it into each state's pot. Then your dream of state's rights would become a reality. Of course you could kiss Medicaid and your social security bye-bye. And by the way, no more federal government, or United States. Happy now?

[gazhekwe]

Hmmm! I got TWO census forms today, both to my address, a single family home.

It took less than five minutes to complete the form. Now to hope there are no changes between now and April 1. Kind of strange to deliver it on 3-15, asking for it to be completed and mailed today, but the questions are geared to conditions as of April 1.

[Jimaz]

I'm glad I didn't get the detailed one. I don't know the answers to some of those questions off the top of my head.

The general form was easy. Some of it was even funny, e.g., "What is Person 1’s sex? Mark [[X) ONE box." They emphasize "ONE" as if some people are likely to be confused by the concept. I wonder how a hermaphrodite is supposed to answer?

Now I kind of feel like Steve Martin in The Jerk when he sees his name in the phone book and says "I'm SOMEbody!"

[oladub]

Here's one to mull over. Since you are so dead set against the census being paid by the federal government, and accusing the corporations of benefitting more from it, why don't they sponsor it? Allow ads on all federal forms. Pays for some of that, and then you can get back to your ducks and flushing toilet?

I haven't objected to the cost counting the population every ten years for the sake of apportioning representatives. Never did. You imagined that. My objections had to to with noseyness, harassment, and fines. I would prefer that corporations paid for their own surveys.

Once again, myopia. It's rather ignorant to suggest such a thing, although it would be attractive to just eliminate the US taxes all together, then put it into each state's pot. Then your dream of state's rights would become a reality. Of course you could kiss Medicaid and your social security bye-bye. And by the way, no more federal government, or United States. Happy now?

Off topic but no need for such drama. Amendments could save whatever programs the majority care to save or states could adopt their own such programs. If Prince Edward Island can manage its own health care program, then I'm sure that large states like Michigan can do the same. The federal government still would have plenty to do as it is charged with international relations, the military, promoting science and the useful arts and dozens of other such responsibilities. The difference would be that states would manage more of their own affairs directly. I don't think most people would notice the difference except that taxes would go down. Some Washington, D.C. bureaucrats would have to find real jobs.

States already make all sorts of agreements and compacts with each other without federal involvement. They accept many of each others' licenses, agree to student tuition reprocicity agreements, set up mutual tax agreements, etc.

Once a year I get an annual Social Security statement informing me of how much Social Security I will receive upon retirement. I noticed the following on my last statement. "The law governing benefit amounts may change because, by 2037, the payroll taxes will be enough to pay for only about 76% of scheduled benefits". I thought I would mention that because the Federal government is broke. Americans will have to start doing things more locally when they realize the federal government has an empty cupboard.

[Stosh]

I haven't objected to the cost counting the population every ten years for the sake of apportioning representatives. Never did. You imagined that. My objections had to to with noseyness, harassment, and fines. I would prefer that corporations paid for their own surveys.

Not so much in print, but rather in spirit. Re "gut the 10th amendment"...

Kind of like CCBatson lite are we? Just without the Randian BS...

[oladub]

Not so much in print, but rather in spirit. Re "gut the 10th amendment"...

Kind of like CCBatson lite are we? Just without the Randian BS...

Not so much in print but maybe in someone's imagination. Where did you come up with the ""gut the 10th amendment"..." quote. I'm ok with the 10th Amendment except for having to argue with people who would rather that it didn't exist or can't believe it says what it does. It was the 16th Amendment that I was hoping you would get rid of. I argued with bats a little about wars and wind energy among other things but I don't remember Bats defining himself with statements like-

"I am am firm believer and supporter of the system of government of the United States of America. It seems to me that you, and others, are not."
"I just love the paranoia on this board. So special to know that these same people are permitted to vote in this country."
"This is a data driven society now, maybe you should stop being so anal and just learn to live with it."
"The only ones afraid of government questions are the ones that have something to hide."

[RaumVogel]

Ask Connie Mack about your beliefs.

[johnsmith]

Not quite. He felt the WHOLE thing needed to be refreshed every 19 years..

What do you mean "not quite" ???

If you weren't aware, the US Constitution usurps whatever Jefferson personally "felt" or "thought", aside from what is actually IN the Constituiton. Again, the amendment process is there for the very reason you speak of. Case closed.

[johnsmith]

Great. That's all they ask for too. 10 questions.

Of course they want to know how old that head is,what color, and ethnicity, and other relevant things about said head that they want to know.

Nope, headcount. That's it. I don't care what they "want" to know. They have no constitutional authority to ask. Apportioning the # of representatives to the states requires nothing more than a headcount.

As far as color and ethnicity, aren't we supposed to be colorblind? The federal gov't sponsored division continues, even though we're not supposed to group people by race and color.

[Sstashmoo]

What would a list of names and addresses of folks that would:

1) Respond to something by mail
2) Naively divest personal information
3)List their income
4)Harass others to do the same

be worth to a telemarketer or junkmail spammer? A flashdrive full of those would be worth an attractive sum.

[Stosh]

Not so much in print but maybe in someone's imagination. Where did you come up with the ""gut the 10th amendment"..." quote. I'm ok with the 10th Amendment except for having to argue with people who would rather that it didn't exist or can't believe it says what it does. It was the 16th Amendment that I was hoping you would get rid of. I argued with bats a little about wars and wind energy among other things but I don't remember Bats defining himself with statements like-

The 10th amendment reference was a mistake on my part. Don't act so dumb. The 16th is what I meant to put down. Once again, you reinforced it, good for you. Eliminating the 16th amendment will eviscerate the United States, which you seem to want so badly. Then that reverts the whole thing back down to the "state's rights" thing, which is what you seem to desire in the first place.

You sure must hate the US.