Relocating to Detroit metro area

[Gizmo]

Hi Forum-goers,

I'm relocating to the area and am interested in buying a house. SO will be working in downtown Detroit, and I'd buy a house there except for the high crime rates & probable [[?) issues reselling if it's not a long-term move. The Grosse Pointes seem safe & nice, but not ethnically diverse. Oakland county seems to have low crime as well, but lots of newer houses [[I like the old style -- built by craftsmen).

It would be interesting to see what others think if they were to give me advice. I only have a very limited window to travel to the area & look around, prior to buying...

Thanks for any comments!

Gizmo

[gnome]

Gizmo,

You hint that your stay may be short when you say, "if it's not a long-term move" hence maybe buying isn't in you best interest right now. If you're not sure you are going to find a fit with your firm, then buying anywhere is a bad idea.

However, if I read too much into that phrase, then you need to tell us the lifestyle profile before you get proper info. Married? Kids? Kids in future? Visiting kids? Is spouse outdoorsy? or a clubster?

If you are looking for the closest thing to an active urban lifestyle, then downtown Birmingham is really the only choice. Birmingham has live theater; a couple of movie houses; indian, middle-eatern, irish, greek and american restaurants; a half dozen coffee shops; a pair of day spas; furniture stores; eyeglass stores ... all within 3 blocks of Woodward and Maple.

And don't think that Birmingham is the sole stomping ground of Buffy and Chip. That may be true for the neighborhoods, but downtown is a magnet for all types of people.

The downside is the commute to downtown Detroit. It's and hour or more in traffic.

I don't want to sound like a shill for Birmingham, but it is the only town around here that has that kind of a mix. Plymouth is close and maybe Ann Arbor to a degree. Certainly Windsor, but for safe urban residential living, downtown Birmingham is the only choice.

[Gizmo]

@gnome: Spouse may be eligible to retire in several years [[we're both 40-something), whereupon we may or may not stay in the area, depending upon how we fit in, friendships, economic situation, etc. I'm assuming I'll never be able to retire . I like the freedom & responsibility of owning, & there are certain projects [[radio antennas, etc.) which I'd like to do which would probably preclude renting. Also, we have pets who are like kids. Married, no kids, want kids. Like to think I was outdoorsy, once, but the reality is that I've been a 'couch potato'. Room for improvement!

Walkability to stores, etc., would be nice, but not necessary.

[cloud_wall]

Sounds like one of the newly coined "Woodward 5" communities might be a good fit: Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge, Huntington Woods, Royal Oak, and Berkley. All are in Oakland County but have older, nice housing stock.

Ferndale would be my biased choice of those; you can get downtown via Woodward or I-75. Contrary to Gnome's dire warnings for everything not Birmingham, it's 'urban' and safe. Retail, dining, bars, and other things to do within walking distance from just about every neighborhood.

If you're looking for Detroit options, you might check out houses in the nicer portions of East English Village [[I'd look between East Warren and Mack). You might be pleasantly surprised. There are other more expensive neighborhoods as well and some good condo options in greater downtown, as mentioned earlier.

[Retroit]

Well, that has got to be the best follow-up from any first-time poster I've ever seen!

And enough info for me to vote for Indian Village. Although you might also consider Palmer Woods, or if you are a little more adventurous, Boston-Edison. Of course, a lot still depends on your price range.

Outside of Detroit, any of the Grosse Pointes might provide a home you'd be interested in, or one of cloud_wall's suggestions.

[Gizmo]

Retroit, Thanks for the kudos! In fact, it's really my first posting anywhere on the internet... [[!) I tend to lurk, & glean information, but haven't had the time / presence of mind to actually post. Of course, I'm doing it in a self-interested fashion here... forgive me.

[Baselinepunk]

" How does this mismanagement of RO compare w/ the mismanagement of Detroit city? I hear horror stories about D due to lack of funds, corruption & malaise, but people have mentioned that Oakland county's different."

Oakland county isn't different; the scale and visibility may be, but corruption and nepotism knows no bounds.

Specifically, RO has offered a tremendous amount of tax breaks as a means to draw businesses into the city over the years. Unfortunately, RO did not diversify enough and threw all of it eggs into the "bar basket". With no additional tax revenue coming in, and a heavy draw on city services that these businesses require, RO is screwed.

My bet is that they will be going before the voters here soon to ask for a millage increase; which will in turn facilitate the usual shit fit that occurs in that city ever so often. They have very poor governmental leadership and very little vision. The school district is good, but even they are trying to screw over their teaching and support staff in this latest round of contract negotiations and has caused quite the kerfuffle. They've also cut busing for next year, so you will have to drive your children to school.

Housing stock has some neat structures in it, but I think that homes values are still very inflated. Speaking of housing stock, I would also caution if you do decide to purchase in RO based on the fact that the city was a hotbed for flips during the housing bubble. Who knows who did what where in those homes; a lot of people made a mint flipping in RO, a large portion of flippers where amateurs looking to turn a quick buck and I would be very concerned about how much lipstick got put on the pig. A ton of those homes had multiple owners in a very short period of time.

PS -- I would also agree with Retroit regarding checking out Palmer Woods. Fucking beautiful area and a great location.

[Gizmo]

@cloud_wall: Thanks for your suggestions as well. Reading your & others comments, I almost get the idea that if there were a massive push en masse to purchase all distressed properties in the area simultaneously, the urban decay could change to urban renewal. But regardless of people's preferences on where to live, it seems like everyone has a certain fondness for the Detroit metro area. This gives me hope about the region, even though I'm not yet a resident.

[Fury13]

Say what you want to about Royal Oak, it's still a damn nice place to live. Yes, maybe too many eggs in the "bar basket" but it remains Oakland County's [[and maybe even the whole metro area's) entertainment center. Away from the Party Central that is downtown, the neighborhoods are attractive and quiet. Overall, I too would recommend any of the "Woodward 5" -- they're centrally located, have good shopping nearby, and are walkable/bikeable. Pleasant Ridge might be the most underrated of the bunch. Very nice. Ferndale has good business strips along Woodward and 9 Mile, but the schools are not good [[warning: Pleasant Ridge uses Ferndale schools as well) and the eastern part of Ferndale is pretty crappy, IMO. Huntington Woods has great quality of life but no downtown. Berkley has a lot of generic postwar Cape Cods that are mostly well kept, and interesting businesses clustered along 12 Mile and Coolidge. Great schools in Berkley; some of the best in the metro area.

[cloud_wall]

for safe urban residential living, downtown Birmingham is the only choice.

That is what I took to be a warning. I suppose "the only choice" may have meant something more like "the best choice" to you, but I don't think it's accurate as written.

[sumas]

Given your criteria, I say Grosse Pointe Park. Several fast ways to get down town. It is very diverse. Lots of bargains but given you don't know if this is long term, I'd consider renting til you know. GPP has great city services, plenty of shopping, very walkable and the waterfront parks are great. Forgot to mention the schools are great. Check out their website for more info.

[Ravine]

"The Grosse Pointes seem safe & nice, but not ethnically diverse."

I am curious. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[neighbor]

If you want diversity in your neighborhood you shouldn't move here. However, the area is very diverse. No matter where you move you will only be a short drive to an area that has a larger than normal ethnic population [[examples: Dearborn-Arab, SW Detroit Mexican, Oak Park-Orthodox-Jewish..... )

GPP is the best in my opinion because I live here. Close to downtown, great schools, great old houses[[even thought they are expensive to heat), and safe streets.

My second would be Royal Oak because living there it seems like you are close to everything.

[Gizmo]

@Ravine: I had a friend living in GP about 10 years ago. She told me about geographic-economic dividing lines, African Americans getting questioned by police on the 'wrong' side, etc. I did some brief demographic 'research' on-line and reached my conclusions this way, but I realize that wouldn't substitute for experience...

[sumas]

"The Grosse Pointes seem safe & nice, but not ethnically diverse."

I am curious. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Personally, I am curious as how could you "quote" something that is not t all what I posted. I said it is very diverse. Reread post please.

[Ravine]

Sumas, chill out, fer chrissakes. I was quoting Gizmo!!

[Gizmo]

@sumas: Do you mean diverse in terms of services, or ethnic diversity, or ???

[sumas]

Given your criteria, I say Grosse Pointe Park. Several fast ways to get down town. It is very diverse. Lots of bargains but given you don't know if this is long term, I'd consider renting til you know. GPP has great city services, plenty of shopping, very walkable and the waterfront parks are great. Forgot to mention the schools are great. Check out their website for more info.

Ravine, again I ask you to compare your quote of my words and please explain how you can justify a non existant quote? I am truly baffled.

[Ravine]

As I said: I was quoting Gizmo.
I don't know how in the hell to make it any plainer than that.

[sumas]

Sorry Ravine, Look at the order of the posts I am third you are forth. Certainly looked like you were addressing me.

As a peace offering, I showed my husband what I thought was a response to me and he said that is wierd since Ravine is normally so sensible.

I do find GPP to be very diverse, the rest of the Pointes not so much. An example of diversity is my church on Lakepointe and Kercheval. Our female pastor [[recently ordained) is in her 60's and our Associate female pastor also in her sixties [[not yet ordained) is Black. Our congregation is comprised of blacks and whites in almost equal numbers, we also have members who are asian and lebanese.

I do agree that if our friend is looking for nightlife, Birmingham is great.

For friendly people, walkability, easy access to downtown, the riverfront, nifty specialty stores, safety, diversity of people and housing stock and income levels, GPP can't be beat.

[Ravine]

Sumas:
Oh, no problem. We forge ahead, bravely.

"... I showed my husband what I thought was a response to me and he said that is wierd since Ravine is normally so sensible."

I am curious. How did he arrive at that conclusion?

[sumas]

Gizmo, I could write thesis on that question. There are so many iniciatives for urban gardening but I'll keep to a short list.

The Garden Resource Program is comprised of several non profits with the goal of crediting urban gardens. Participating members are Greening of Detroit, Detroit Agricultural Network, Earthworks Urban Farm, with support from Michigan State University. This is a very short list there are so many others.

[hudkina]

Downtown doesn't have as much crime as you would think. If you choose to buy, there are condo projects all around the Greater Downtown area. Corktown, Lafayette Park, Rivertown, Woodbridge, Midtown [[particularly the areas near Wayne State University), and the CBD are all good neighborhoods with relatively cheap housing.

If you choose to not live in the city, Grosse Pointe Park is your best option if you work downtown. It's the closest you can get without actually living in the city. It's only about 6 miles from the Ren Cen, though your only route is a surface street. The schools are some of the best in the state, and it's actually the most diverse and progressive of the Pointes.

You might also like Dearborn. The East Side is home to a large ethnic middle eastern community while the West Side has a decent amount of affluence. The East Side is also only about 6 miles or so from Downtown.

Once you get beyond those two communities, the commute starts getting a bit longer, though 20-30 minutes to some people isn't a big deal.

[Retroit]

When you provide us more information, as requested by gnome, you might also want to give a price range and house size/style preference.

If you are unfamiliar with the area[[s), I would suggest you take a virtual tour using Google map's Street View function.

[Gizmo]

@Retroit: Thx for the suggestions re: Google maps. For housing, I personally prefer the [[IMHO) better craftsmanship of houses built during the first half of the 20th century. I'd rather get a somewhat 'fixer-upper' than buy a fully updated [[and hence price elevated) house. We wouldn't purchase above max $350k, but would prefer around $200k. I like the Tudor revival styles in some Detroit houses, but am certainly not locked in to that architecture.