DPS leader's bad writing: Wrong message? Column

[EMG]

The rest of the board have the same reasoning some folks do here: It's not a big deal. Precisely why DPS is in the fix it's in.

Exactly. And many of "these folks" are parents. If even the parents don't care, will the students? Not likely.

[Zacha341]

Well stated. The woman's comments reek with condescension often found in the royal enclosures of the educational elite. However, depending on the setting, posture or amongst another supposed "strata" their condescension often flips over to contempt! This man needs to get help with his writing skills period if he is to work in management. It could be argued that his "issue" is being used for other agendas. Agendas, that have nothing to do with him improving his lot or not!

I thought this part was particularly breathtaking in its condescension to Detroiters:

"I know he's a terrible writer. Oh wow, I've seen his e-mails," says Ida Byrd-Hill, a parent and activist who runs a nonprofit and is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ group. "His job, though, is to represent the community. His lack of writing skills is prevalent in the community. If anybody does, he understands the struggles of what it's like to go through an institution and not be properly prepared."

I will sort of give her the last point, about how he knows what it's like to be trapped in failing institutions. But the first part is just do dumb it's crazy. In other words, many in the community struggle with literacy issues [[given the state of the public schools, the underfunded library system, and the nation-wide trends in the wrong direction) so therefore he represents the community effectively as a semi-literate person. As someone with a dictionary could tell you, "to represent," in the sense of political representation, does not equate to "is the same as," but instead means "advocates for." Mensa my ass.

[Zacha341]

Well stated... self justification does the trick. Then eventually the "trick" reveals itself again, usually NOT on your time table. That's how life is. Stuff cannot stay hidden forever..........

I'm sorry, showstoppa, but that's NOT what the article says at all. Pay attention to this part:

Mathis and another student unsuccessfully challenged the use of an English proficiency test as a requirement for graduation. In 1992, when the case went to trial, the lawsuit gained national attention. Mathis said then his failure to pass the test "made me feel stupid." The requirement was eventually dropped in 2007, and Mathis applied to get his degree the next year, after his election.

Which means that he did NOT pass the test. He simply waited [[15 years) until they dropped the requirement, and then went back and put in the application for his degree. Since the test was no longer required, he was able to get his paper. BIG difference. He never fulfilled the requirements. In all of those years. Also note that he TRIED very had to get them to just drop the requirement altogether, even going to court over it - time and energy he could have been using to study for the test!

[Zacha341]

Yep, well stated... every one is using this to "endorse" their agendas indeed. I'm certain the white supremacist types are just giddy to discuss this on their boards and blogs. Whatever.

Everyone has their axe to grind and sharpen, but to repeat the obvious, Mr. Otis needed to address this, if not become an exemplary writer to at least be functional. First for himself, then for his chosen profession!

For sure much of this in his mind perhaps further the justification for why he did not address the issue in the first place. Instead he chose his road and it now comes up and there's little damage control that can fix it.....

I recall not taking typing in HS school... it was not required for my major so I didn't... In college it was a disadvantage--not knowing how to type, so I got one of those stand-up typing books and self taught myself, hour after hour until I could use all 10 fingers and not just picking.

I could have self-justified to believe the keyboard to be a tool of oppression and not bothered to addressed it... later I advanced my typing skills to become faster using varied typing software programs. Further learning the 10 key numeric keypad....

I did not beat a tambourine about it, I just did as it as I needed the skill.... Period.

After thinking about this on and off today what bothers me most is that his e-mails are a Detroit hating racists wet dream.

Only people who comment on ClickOnDetroit could make up worse e-mails.

I am sure there is a learning disability at work here and I am sure it was never acknowledged in school since he was just passed along from grade to grade.

Mathis took advantage of the system that allowed him to be this ignorant. He is also very much at fault as an adult for being lazy or embarrassed and not improving his skills.

I have never heard him speak but I hope it isn't like he write.

He played the system and now he is in charge of the system. Detroit will never change as long as men like this are at the top of anything.

[Hypestyles]

This blows my mind-- then again, people have reached higher office than that with questionable college fundamentals.. oh well; 'kids, you too can fail upward'.. This cements my belief that the DPS school board structure needs to be abolished, brought under mayoral control, with a CEO in charge.. but 'activists' and such will continue to uplift the conspiracy angle that all "they" [[anonymous/semi-anonymous big business tycoons & Lansing lawmakers) want to do is wrest control from local [[read: black) control..

[LeannaM]

I know now if you wanna teach, in any state, you have to take a test showing that you are proficient in grammar [[and math, science, and Social Studies). I realize he's not a teacher, but you would expect he would be held to the same standards. You also have to take the SAT or ACT to get into many colleges in the first place.

You would think the President of the school board would at least have a secretary to proofread stuff.

So many of these mistakes seem to be basic stuff anyway. Our instead of Are, have/has, shown/showed. I'm not special ed. And I'm no expert on it, but some of these seem like pretty simple mistakes.

[pffft]

"...some of these seem like pretty simple mistakes."

No, you need to turn that around. Because this is "simple" grammar, not complicated stuff, all the more reason an educated adult shouldn't make such elementary, basic errors.

[Zacha341]

Excellent point. We can all make mistakes or a typo or two - but this writing sample shows core problems in basic writing that were not addressed for many years.... He was pretty busy I suppose -- justifying and politicizing it instead of privately getting a tutor [[which some other executives have probably done without banging a gong about it) and MOVING onward. I am sure it is top of mind now... now that the gong is being BANGED LOUDLY ABOUT IT!!!!!

"...some of these seem like pretty simple mistakes."

No, you need to turn that around. Because this is "simple" grammar, not complicated stuff, all the more reason an educated adult shouldn't make such elementary, basic errors.

[showstoppa]

This blows my mind-- then again, people have reached higher office than that with questionable college fundamentals.. oh well; 'kids, you too can fail upward'.. This cements my belief that the DPS school board structure needs to be abolished, brought under mayoral control, with a CEO in charge.. but 'activists' and such will continue to uplift the conspiracy angle that all "they" [[anonymous/semi-anonymous big business tycoons & Lansing lawmakers) want to do is wrest control from local [[read: black) control..

as of right now, this isn't about race anymore ! this is about doing the right thing. why is this man president of the SCHOOL BOARD with writing like this ? If anyone were to protest school board refrom, I will be further convinced that people here use "race" as a excuse. The real issue is that we have too many power-hungry people in this community. That is the reason we're in the state we're in !

[TKshreve]

People don't know who they really are voting for in these elections. As long as somebody has a minimum of name recognition, or they change their name to Reverend, they will get elected. I think people would elect pretty much anybody these days. And this is not just in the City proper either. The minor elective races are pretty much not researched by anybody.

Yawn. This broken record argument brings nothing to the table. Name recognition..... really? You can bat that tired concept around till all the beads fall out, but until you question the true problem here, you're getting nowhere.

Truth is, you need to guarantee an educated voter. Everybody knows [[by now) you cannot guarantee an honest [[let alone educated) candidate. Sorry to make you the scapegoat here stosh, but I can't swallow this excuse once more. Your standpoint defends both the voting public and the poor candidates that reach office under qualified.

We need to limit voting to those who can handle the responsibility. How do we do that......well that's the tricky part. But your answer to the REAL problems lie there. Not this tap dance around peoples feelings and tightroping the race debate. Hang that $hit out to dry already.

Until these elective positions get the attention they deserve, the results will remain the same. It's hard enough to get people to vote on the major offices. Somehow these offices probably should be not elected, but perhaps appointed by council and the mayor? The education of the children should not be depending on the whims of a largely uncaring public.

OK. A shot at a solution and I commend you for this. Many people are experts at identifying the problem, but offer nothing towards a solution. Unfortunately, Detroit has proved why appointments is not on the table for solutions. The leaders of the city have time and time again put family and friends first, leaving the qualified individuals [[who are right for the job) on the sidelines. It only exacerbates the problem when family is appointed, creating a ROYAL FAMILY, like we have seen with the Kilpatricks, Conyers and others.

Again, Stosh...... no disrespect, but until the complaining voices on this board dig a little deeper at the problem, we are all in the ditch for a long time. Not to mention, tough decisions WILL need to be made. Complacency is what delivered us to this spot, so it will not get us out of here.

You should have to invest in your right to vote, or you need to forego that right.

[Downtown Lady]

"...some of these seem like pretty simple mistakes."

No, you need to turn that around. Because this is "simple" grammar, not complicated stuff, all the more reason an educated adult shouldn't make such elementary, basic errors.

I think that's what Leanna is saying. I took her post to mean that these basic mistakes indicate a fundamental lack of grammar skills, but not a learning disability.

[pffft]

I think that's what Leanna is saying. I took her post to mean that these basic mistakes indicate a fundamental lack of grammar skills, but not a learning disability.

Downtown Lady, sure, but I'm not sure what the point is. Either way, he may be a nice man, but his skill set and/or learning disability render him unfit for that job.

[Ravine]

"Wrong message?"
Not at all.
The fact that this man,who-- for whatever reasons, be they a failing on his part, or not-- cannot write at all, holds the position he holds, well, that fact delivers the truth: The management and administration of the DPS are chock full o' imbeciles.
And when is the truth ever the "wrong message?"

[Downtown Lady]

Downtown Lady, sure, but I'm not sure what the point is. Either way, he may be a nice man, but his skill set and/or learning disability render him unfit for that job.

No, I completely agree with you that he is unfit for the job -- I'm not debating that at all.

I was trying to be delicate in how I phrased it, but I'll just be direct: the point I was trying to make is that I don't think he has a learning disability, I think he just never learned the basics and he calls it a learning disability because it's an easy excuse and he may have found that calling it a learning disability garners him some sympathy.

Of course, I have no way of knowing that with any certainty, so it's just a hypothesis.

[MaxDetroit]

In this day and age when Image is everything [[for better or worse) electing a person who's barely literate as president of the *SCHOOL BOARD* for gods sake is beyond stupid. Why do these people persist in shooting themselves in the foot? It displays a total lack of self-awareness or worse still that they just don't give a damn. I hope Robert Bobb will have some success cleaning up the mess but I'm afraid he's 20 years too late. Maybe it's time to disband the system and have nothing but charter schools.

[Buy American]

Tonight on Fox News he is claiming he has a "learning disability"....
If you believe that, I have a bridge you may want to buy!

[LeannaM]

I think that's what Leanna is saying. I took her post to mean that these basic mistakes indicate a fundamental lack of grammar skills, but not a learning disability.

Thanks. That is what I meant. I guess I worded it poorly.

Mr. Bobb's mistakes seem like mistakes that most people can master.

Has he been diagnosed with a learning disability? Maybe if he were diagnosed with something, people would be a little more understanding. Otherwise it just sounds like laziness.

I couldn't get a decent job if I wrote like that. It seems odd that he would. If he has a learning disability, he needs to prove it, in my opinion. It would seem odd that a learning disability would utter him unable to use proper grammar, yet the rest of his skills would be unaffected.

If he refuses to fix his issues, or if he says he can't fix them, then the least he could do is run things by a spell checking program. That would pick up on a lot of the issues. Or get someone to proofread it.

If he doesn't have a learning disability, it sounds bad that he is the boss over a school board. If he does not have a learning disability, then he needs to learn, like you do as a kid, how to speak correctly. Maybe he can speak how he wants with his friends, but in business he needs to be professional.

[Buy American]

Thanks. That is what I meant. I guess I worded it poorly.

Mr. Bobb's mistakes seem like mistakes that most people can master.

Has he been diagnosed with a learning disability? Maybe if he were diagnosed with something, people would be a little more understanding. Otherwise it just sounds like laziness.

I couldn't get a decent job if I wrote like that. It seems odd that he would. If he has a learning disability, he needs to prove it, in my opinion. It would seem odd that a learning disability would utter him unable to use proper grammar, yet the rest of his skills would be unaffected.

If he refuses to fix his issues, or if he says he can't fix them, then the least he could do is run things by a spell checking program. That would pick up on a lot of the issues. Or get someone to proofread it.

If he doesn't have a learning disability, it sounds bad that he is the boss over a school board. If he does not have a learning disability, then he needs to learn, like you do as a kid, how to speak correctly. Maybe he can speak how he wants with his friends, but in business he needs to be professional.

A spell check program wouldn't help in this situation. Spelling may be a problem, but it's the way his sentences are constructed and the words he uses [[or doesn't use properly) in this case.

[Downtown Lady]

Has he been diagnosed with a learning disability? Maybe if he were diagnosed with something, people would be a little more understanding. Otherwise it just sounds like laziness.

I couldn't get a decent job if I wrote like that. It seems odd that he would. If he has a learning disability, he needs to prove it, in my opinion. It would seem odd that a learning disability would utter him unable to use proper grammar, yet the rest of his skills would be unaffected...

If he doesn't have a learning disability, it sounds bad that he is the boss over a school board. If he does not have a learning disability, then he needs to learn, like you do as a kid, how to speak correctly. Maybe he can speak how he wants with his friends, but in business he needs to be professional.

I completely agree Leanna!

Just to clarify though, it's not Robert Bobb who has these issues, it is Otis Mathis. Robert Bobb is the emergency financial manager of DPS, appointed by the governor, and Otis Mathis is the president of the school board, an elected position.

[Thruster315]

A spell check program wouldn't help in this situation. Spelling may be a problem, but it's the way his sentences are constructed and the words he uses [[or doesn't use properly) in this case.

If I was his underling and fully capable of reading, I'm not so sure I could fully follow his written directions out and that's where I have a problem with this guy. It has everything to do with communication- can he dispense vital information and direction effectively?

[DetroitTeacher]

If one KNOWS one has a learning disability, then one should have their written communication proofread prior to sending it out. That is the first rule that teachers teach kids with written communication deficits. Having a learning disability is not a valid excuse for this man's lack of skills.

[Ravine]

If one KNOWS one has a learning disability, then one should have their written communication proofread prior to sending it out. That is the first rule that teachers teach kids with written communication deficits. Having a learning disability is not a valid excuse for this man's lack of skills.

Thank you, for pointing out the obvious.
I don't say that in a wisenheimer way. It really is obvious, but people around here have become accustomed to being permitted to fire off all manner of lame-ass excuses, alibis, and weak woe-is-me tales and get away with it.
The citizens of Detroit have taught them that it's OK. Our low-standard acceptance of bullshit behavior and incompetence is so pervasive that it nearly establishes an implicit form of encouragement.
Can't handle the job? Can't play by the rules? No problem. We weren't looking for much, anyway.
Following this trail leads me to conclude that low self-esteem is the root source of almost all of Detroit's problems.
Please, anybody, prove that I am wrong about that.

[Mikeg]

Received the following in a forwarded chain e-mail with "Subject: Detroit Burger King"
Attachment 5392
Whether the photo is true or not, the publicity surrounding Otis Mathis will guarantee that this e-mail will be forwarded endlessly.

[Melocoton]

Received the following in a forwarded chain e-mail with "Subject: Detroit Burger King"
Attachment 5392
Whether the photo is true or not, the publicity surrounding Otis Mathis will guarantee that this e-mail will be forwarded endlessly.

Just because someone will choose to use this episode to spread racial stereotypes [[like chain letters that claim to depict photos from Detroit) doesn't mean that we should.

[Mikeg]

Just because someone will choose to use this episode to spread racial stereotypes [[like chain letters that claim to depict photos from Detroit) doesn't mean that we should.

Where exactly is the racial stereotype in that image?