DPS leader's bad writing: Wrong message? Column

neighbor · March-04-10, 08:37 AM

Great column by Laura Berman.

Another reason why the DPS is what it is. There is not way this borderline illiterate should be in charge of anything related to education and yet he is the President of the DPS and was a counselor at WSU.

What a joke. It's people like this in these positions that make it so easy to pick on Detroit.

http://detnews.com/article/20100304/...Wrong-message?

**Detwa** · March-04-10, 08:53 AM

Damn. Can he even read? Because I don't see how you can be a poor writer without also being a poor reader. President, huh? Just...wow.

So that's two special education students on the school board. With degrees. Nice.

**Zacha341** · March-04-10, 09:41 AM

Exactly! "Reading" is the other side of good writing... I can't quote all the rules of grammar, but was always an excellent reader. And reading is one of the gateways to accurate writing to convey your thoughts and ideas accurately.

His inability to write should/ could have been privately addressed on a tutoring level years back, even post high school... There are many professional who have testified to private learning, and re-learning basics such as reading and writing...

Too bad he got to this point, and this far writing so poorly. You cannot be an administrator at any level [[especially in education) sending emails like this... Absolutely not.

Originally Posted by Detwa

Damn. Can he even read? Because I don't see how you can be a poor writer without also being a poor reader. President, huh? Just...wow.

So that's two special education students on the school board. With degrees. Nice.

**Zacha341** · March-04-10, 10:49 AM

The special education aspect can be muddy waters [[as there are levels of aptitude and ability). I have worked in post secondary education and have had designated "special population" students who were special education at the secondary level who did very well.

They may need more time to take a given test, but I've had students in my college classes who wrote very well, and showed high aptitude to their field of study... in some cases it was hard to detect their specific cognitive issue or impairment.

There are also special ed students that may have been designated such only for and within one or two grades and went on to complete high school with the general population.

This integration is become more and more common, unless the cognitive and social issue is extreme......

Now some of the DPS board members.... well.... the jury is out on that.

Originally Posted by Detwa

Damn. Can he even read? Because I don't see how you can be a poor writer without also being a poor reader. President, huh? Just...wow.

So that's two special education students on the school board. With degrees. Nice.

**pffft** · March-04-10, 08:54 AM

The rest of the board have the same reasoning some folks do here: It's not a big deal. Precisely why DPS is in the fix it's in.

**EMG** · March-04-10, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by pffft

The rest of the board have the same reasoning some folks do here: It's not a big deal. Precisely why DPS is in the fix it's in.

Exactly. And many of "these folks" are parents. If even the parents don't care, will the students? Not likely.

**carman** · March-04-10, 09:32 AM

Great story of perserverance and will - Yes. Can the Board use a person with his experiences and leadership - Yes. Should someone at least raise the question in regards to his Presidency and communications - Yes. Will the person that raises that question [[if or when), be accused of racisism - Yes.......It is Detroit!

**Detwa** · March-04-10, 09:48 AM

I don't see it as perserverance or will, in the article, it says that he actually waited until the English proficiency test was no longer required to graduate with a degree. Then he simply reapplied for the degree and received it. So he basically just waited them out and then got his way after all. He never mastered the requirements, in over 15 years. Perserverance would have been to get some tutoring or extra studying or whatever it took, and continue to take the test until you passed it legitimately. He took the coward's way out and got his degree through the backdoor.

I thought Wayne State was better than that. Why would you NOT have English proficiency as a requirement for graduation? He graduated high school with a .98 - why was he even admitted into any college? Maybe they need a "Bobb" to overhaul Wayne State too! Because I want to know who was grading his papers in college that they allowed him to pass! Apparently this isn't just a problem in DPS, its occurring at the college level too, and its truly disgraceful.

**Crystal** · March-04-10, 09:55 AM

Speaking of bad grammar, this sentence is on the front page of today's New York Times:

"A popular category of artificial hip devices are causing severe tissue and bone damage in some patients. Gregory Smith had to have an implant replaced after two years."

When I was a kid, we had to diagram sentences and learn grammar. Our boys are 22, 21, and 19 and they were not taught grammar in school. I think they call it whole language these days.

There is no substitute for writing that is clear.

**pffft** · March-04-10, 09:59 AM

A man who sued, to make Wayne State's requirements less stringent...is now head of DPS. Whew...

Crystal, agreed, I think there is a whole lost generation or two who were allowed to flounder around and use whatever sentence contruction felt right. Imagine if they taught math that way.

**Zacha341** · March-04-10, 10:57 AM

Yeah, I'm "no" grammarian [[ignore the bad lingo just used

) and my typing is not that great, but the the "whole" language thing has ruined ability of many Americans to read and write. It should have been called "partial" language and writing.

Whole language as instituted was just a pycho-babblish, socially driven, codified and therefore authorized means of doing English "light". This er' "learning" and teaching method skips over the details required for adequate reading and writing. Thus, we have the poor writing you see daily in the media, news and elsewhere...

Originally Posted by Crystal

Speaking of bad grammar, this sentence is on the front page of today's New York Times:

"A popular category of artificial hip devices are causing severe tissue and bone damage in some patients. Gregory Smith had to have an implant replaced after two years."

When I was a kid, we had to diagram sentences and learn grammar. Our boys are 22, 21, and 19 and they were not taught grammar in school. I think they call it whole language these days.

There is no substitute for writing that is clear.

Stosh · March-04-10, 11:07 AM

People don't know who they really are voting for in these elections. As long as somebody has a minimum of name recognition, or they change their name to Reverend, they will get elected. I think people would elect pretty much anybody these days. And this is not just in the City proper either. The minor elective races are pretty much not researched by anybody.

Until these elective positions get the attention they deserve, the results will remain the same. It's hard enough to get people to vote on the major offices. Somehow these offices probably should be not elected, but perhaps appointed by council and the mayor? The education of the children should not be depending on the whims of a largely uncaring public.

**Melocoton** · March-04-10, 12:23 PM

I thought this part was particularly breathtaking in its condescension to Detroiters:

"I know he's a terrible writer. Oh wow, I've seen his e-mails," says Ida Byrd-Hill, a parent and activist who runs a nonprofit and is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ group. "His job, though, is to represent the community. His lack of writing skills is prevalent in the community. If anybody does, he understands the struggles of what it's like to go through an institution and not be properly prepared."

I will sort of give her the last point, about how he knows what it's like to be trapped in failing institutions. But the first part is just do dumb it's crazy. In other words, many in the community struggle with literacy issues [[given the state of the public schools, the underfunded library system, and the nation-wide trends in the wrong direction) so therefore he represents the community effectively as a semi-literate person. As someone with a dictionary could tell you, "to represent," in the sense of political representation, does not equate to "is the same as," but instead means "advocates for." Mensa my ass.

Retroit · March-04-10, 12:51 PM

Eye doesn't sea what the problem iz. He be a good men and he dose a greet job. Alot of peoples in Detroit ain't no how to right, so he be a good roll model.

**mam2009** · March-04-10, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Melocoton

I thought this part was particularly breathtaking in its condescension to Detroiters:

"I know he's a terrible writer. Oh wow, I've seen his e-mails," says Ida Byrd-Hill, a parent and activist who runs a nonprofit and is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ group. "His job, though, is to represent the community. His lack of writing skills is prevalent in the community. If anybody does, he understands the struggles of what it's like to go through an institution and not be properly prepared."

I will sort of give her the last point, about how he knows what it's like to be trapped in failing institutions. But the first part is just do dumb it's crazy. In other words, many in the community struggle with literacy issues [[given the state of the public schools, the underfunded library system, and the nation-wide trends in the wrong direction) so therefore he represents the community effectively as a semi-literate person. As someone with a dictionary could tell you, "to represent," in the sense of political representation, does not equate to "is the same as," but instead means "advocates for." Mensa my ass.

Yu sed dat reel gud Melocoton

**Zacha341** · March-04-10, 08:54 PM

Well stated. The woman's comments reek with condescension often found in the royal enclosures of the educational elite. However, depending on the setting, posture or amongst another supposed "strata" their condescension often flips over to contempt! This man needs to get help with his writing skills period if he is to work in management. It could be argued that his "issue" is being used for other agendas. Agendas, that have nothing to do with him improving his lot or not!

Originally Posted by Melocoton

I thought this part was particularly breathtaking in its condescension to Detroiters:

"I know he's a terrible writer. Oh wow, I've seen his e-mails," says Ida Byrd-Hill, a parent and activist who runs a nonprofit and is a member of Mensa, the high-IQ group. "His job, though, is to represent the community. His lack of writing skills is prevalent in the community. If anybody does, he understands the struggles of what it's like to go through an institution and not be properly prepared."

I will sort of give her the last point, about how he knows what it's like to be trapped in failing institutions. But the first part is just do dumb it's crazy. In other words, many in the community struggle with literacy issues [[given the state of the public schools, the underfunded library system, and the nation-wide trends in the wrong direction) so therefore he represents the community effectively as a semi-literate person. As someone with a dictionary could tell you, "to represent," in the sense of political representation, does not equate to "is the same as," but instead means "advocates for." Mensa my ass.

**bee@dee** · March-08-10, 08:45 PM

anybody can be a member of 'mensa'. just keep taking the tests until you arrive @the desired #.

**TKshreve** · March-05-10, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Stosh

People don't know who they really are voting for in these elections. As long as somebody has a minimum of name recognition, or they change their name to Reverend, they will get elected. I think people would elect pretty much anybody these days. And this is not just in the City proper either. The minor elective races are pretty much not researched by anybody.

Yawn. This broken record argument brings nothing to the table. Name recognition..... really? You can bat that tired concept around till all the beads fall out, but until you question the true problem here, you're getting nowhere.

Truth is, you need to guarantee an educated voter. Everybody knows [[by now) you cannot guarantee an honest [[let alone educated) candidate. Sorry to make you the scapegoat here stosh, but I can't swallow this excuse once more. Your standpoint defends both the voting public and the poor candidates that reach office under qualified.

We need to limit voting to those who can handle the responsibility. How do we do that......well that's the tricky part. But your answer to the REAL problems lie there. Not this tap dance around peoples feelings and tightroping the race debate. Hang that $hit out to dry already.

Until these elective positions get the attention they deserve, the results will remain the same. It's hard enough to get people to vote on the major offices. Somehow these offices probably should be not elected, but perhaps appointed by council and the mayor? The education of the children should not be depending on the whims of a largely uncaring public.

OK. A shot at a solution and I commend you for this. Many people are experts at identifying the problem, but offer nothing towards a solution. Unfortunately, Detroit has proved why appointments is not on the table for solutions. The leaders of the city have time and time again put family and friends first, leaving the qualified individuals [[who are right for the job) on the sidelines. It only exacerbates the problem when family is appointed, creating a ROYAL FAMILY, like we have seen with the Kilpatricks, Conyers and others.

Again, Stosh...... no disrespect, but until the complaining voices on this board dig a little deeper at the problem, we are all in the ditch for a long time. Not to mention, tough decisions WILL need to be made. Complacency is what delivered us to this spot, so it will not get us out of here.

You should have to invest in your right to vote, or you need to forego that right.

Buy American · March-04-10, 09:57 AM

"Do DPS control the Foundation or outside group? If an outside group control the foundation, then what is DPS Board row with selection of is director? Our we mixing DPS and None DPS row's, and who is the watch dog? "

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100304/...#ixzz0hDg4cQZ9

That is absolutely shameful. He admits that he can't write an English sentence. It's obvious that he writes like he speaks. How did this man get to where he is today? Then the DPS has the nerve to go after the teachers because the students can't read or write...what a crock. Teachers are paying $500 a month to DPS out of their salaries to help DPS, and these illiterates are making policy...a disgrace.

**agirlintheD** · March-04-10, 10:49 AM

I don't even know where to begin! Is this sending the wrong message? Would HELL YES be a strong enough answer? They want everyone to volunteer their time for the Reading Corp because it is crystal clear they can't help these kids read! I'm infuriated. I am one of the biggest believers in Detroit and hopeful that it can make a comeback [[in someone's lifetime), but after reading this article, I have some really strong doubts. When will this district learn that lowering standards is not helping anyone. It is hindering the future. The fact that he jokes [[I believe it said, "he chuckled") that he was kicked in and out of school and that he attended once a week, rather than every two weeks is absurd! His deficiencies were noted as early as the fourth grade, yet, he was still pushed through the system. Wow...just wow. The article also states, "he stayed at Wayne for 15 years, as a student and a counselor, becoming a virtual "prisoner of Wayne," as he jokes, unable to graduate", and for that he's in the position of Detroit School Board Chief? He spent time as a counselor? Who the hell did he counsel? He also spent time as a substitute teacher? Detroit, when will you get the big picture? When will all of us collectively see that lowering standards is not the damn answer. These kids need to be pushed. Mediocrity should not be acceptable. Wow.

**Det_ard** · March-04-10, 10:55 AM

Wow indeed.

So who wants to admit to voting for this guy? Some of y'all had to, he did get elected.

I'm going to volunteer with the Reading Corp since I want to help DPS Board members learn how to read.

**Gsgeorge** · March-04-10, 10:57 AM

Yikes. This is really disheartening. May God help us.

**Crystal** · March-04-10, 11:01 AM

[[I am not making this up.)

I remember clearly when one of the boys was in [[maybe) first or second grade. Andrew brought home a writing assignment with a happy face sticker and two misspellings ignored. I mentioned it to the teacher. Her reply was that it was better for students' self esteem if the errors were not pointed out.

**Hermod** · March-04-10, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Crystal

Her reply was that it was better for students' self esteem if the errors were not pointed out.

Kids today have too much self esteem. Kids shouldn't have self esteem. Kids should realize that they are nothing but a sorry piece of crap. Then they need to be taught that, with a lot of hard work, they might someday become a useful member of society.

Buy American · March-04-10, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Kids today have too much self esteem. Kids shouldn't have self esteem. Kids should realize that they are nothing but a sorry piece of crap. Then they need to be taught that, with a lot of hard work, they might someday become a useful member of society.

I hope you're being sarcastic, because that statement is not correct.