Preservation Wayne theater tour question[[GISTOK)?

[Stosh]

Yep, that's what happens when you have the money and will to do something.

Things get done. Unfortunately that combination is severely lacking in the city these days.

And I think that the implication that I am basicallly clueless about the Gem is rather offputting. I've been to both for plays and other events, and the information on both the Gem and Century is common knowledge, and has been on their websites since the move.

Those architectural elements are gone. You should have hired some of the urban explorers to get them before the demo. It's really just simple concrete mold work, after all. Simple to replicate. Anybody with basic skills can churn out concrete elements by the ton using gang molds. Just a little patience and money incorporating into buildings. Probably even easier if you are using resins. Lighter and gives the same look.

Edit: And that reminds me of something... why is it that preservation groups dont get somebody on scaffolding and get some of the architectural elements on buildings now in molds for future preservation or sale? The Freep building has some outrageous stuff on the building. Now that's a worthwhile thing for them to do, and plaster, resin or concrete reproductions could be done to raise funds for actual restoration work.

Now that brings me back to the National Theatre. You say that was cleared out by PW a number of years ago.. how much is it up for sale for now?

[Gistok]

Stosh, my appologies about the Gem/Century comments. We have so many people here posting from around the country [[and world), that since I don't know you.... well lets just say I could have phrased that much more diplomatically. Sorry.

As for the National Theatre... although it is city owned, some group does have [[or had) an option on it. But I can't find any details.

Although the facade of the National did have facade clean-up done with the SuperBowl downtown building cleanup fund, the interior plasterwork is in sad shape. The city did have the sense to put a new roof on the National long ago... but sadly that was after the plasterwork in the auditorium deteriorated [[water damage) and it is probably in worse condition than the United Artists. I'm not blaming the city on the condition of the interior.... it may have been abandoned before the city took title.

[PQZ]

OTSC had the funds they needed from other sources. How does the fact that they didn't also solicit donations on their web site mean that they're not a credible organization?

Hell, the DEGC doesn't solicit donations are their web site either. Does this mean that their not a credible organization?

DEGC has a website. Something more than OTSC was able to do in this godaddy.com era.

[Fnemecek]

Right. Who cares about whether or not a group has money or a viable plan to redevelop a historic site?

It's all about their web site.

[exmotowner]

Will the theater tour include the National?

[PQZ]

Right. Who cares about whether or not a group has money or a viable plan to redevelop a historic site?

It's all about their web site.

OTSC certainly had a good plan and idea. They certainly did not have adequate cash in hand to implement the plan. Promises of funding, promises of federal earmarks are one thing. Not having the wherewithal to get a basic website up and running within 18 months when folks are clamoring for a way to donate money is a strong indicaotr of the capacity of the organization to execute the plan and actually secure the promised funding.

As usual Frank, you want to make cutesy comments that ignore the reality.

Yes, OTSC had a decent plan - but the execution and capacity were sorely lacking. As a person who loves preservation and agitates for it, I liked their plan. As a professional with an advanced degree in urban planning, and as a professional who actually did some of the heavy lifting on the Book Cadillac - as opposed to say selling t-shirts - their execution and capacity were sorely sorely lacking.

Yes, the EDC was not as supportive of the plan as it could have been, but to pin the failure of the OTSC on the EDC is to completely and willfully ignore the serious organizational issues that the OTSC had.

[56packman]

You can gnash and wail all you want about preservation, and who is doing what, and who isn't, but I have observed that here in America, if a historic structure stands in the way of a developer or corporate interest making money, it's a goner. You can make all of the court-ordered stays of demolition you want, they will just start at night and get enough done so that "it has to come down now, it's unsafe" and no one will be dragged into court to answer for their actions.
If you want to save a building, figure out a way for it to pay for itself, beyond any aesthetic value the building may hold for "building huggers".
Once the costs of restoration and rehabilitation are spent and the building is finished the fixed costs of keeping it up and heating it [[and taxes and cleaning and so on) are always going to be there, and that requires monthly cash flow.

[Gistok]

Will the theater tour include the National?

No the tour does not. Just the Grand Circus Park theatres. The National is quite a distance from the other theatres, and if I am not mistaken, it has no electricity turned on inside.

To add the National to an already exhausting tour [[at 4 1/2 hours) would likely extend the tour to over 5 hours. Your feet will probably be sore enough after the existing tour [[especially if it's a hot and muggy August day).

[detourdetroit]

Not having the website accept online donations is unfortunate, but it didn't stop the conservancy from soliciting or accepting donations. This seems like a bit of red herring. I don't know of any major redevelopment initiative where the difference was made on paypal. having an up to the minute website seems like something even the degc struggles with... http://www.degc.org/current-projects.aspx. the tiger stadium demo...especially how the end was handled...seemed from the outside to be especially vindictive and political, and in the end a very detroit response. the result = less city.

[Stosh]

Not having the website accept online donations is unfortunate, but it didn't stop the conservancy from soliciting or accepting donations. This seems like a bit of red herring. I don't know of any major redevelopment initiative where the difference was made on paypal. having an up to the minute website seems like something even the degc struggles with... http://www.degc.org/current-projects.aspx. the tiger stadium demo...especially how the end was handled...seemed from the outside to be especially vindictive and political, and in the end a very detroit response. the result = less city.

I was just wondering if anyone can tell me what is being done with the donations to the OTSC now that the development is no more? Seems to me that if they were still an ongoing concern, they would be filing statements with the State DLEG, since their inception in 2007. Nothing since the articles of incorporation were filed. Curious.

[Fnemecek]

OTSC certainly had a good plan and idea. They certainly did not have adequate cash in hand to implement the plan. Promises of funding, promises of federal earmarks are one thing. Not having the wherewithal to get a basic website up and running within 18 months when folks are clamoring for a way to donate money is a strong indicaotr of the capacity of the organization to execute the plan and actually secure the promised funding.

As usual Frank, you want to make cutesy comments that ignore the reality.

I'm the one ignoring reality?

The federal earmark passed both Houses of Congress and was signed into law by the President.

And that's only a mere promise?

[Stosh]

I'm the one ignoring reality?

The federal earmark passed both Houses of Congress and was signed into law by the President.

And that's only a mere promise?

And of course that earmark quickly became a hot button issue around the country for being notorious pork.
I wonder what happened?

And an earmark IS a promise. An appropriation is what was needed.

[Fnemecek]

And of course that earmark quickly became a hot button issue around the country for being notorious pork.
I wonder what happened?

Yes, there are people who don't like earmarks.

Yes, the OTSC earmark was one of the ones that they complained about in 2009.

What's your point?

And an earmark IS a promise. An appropriation is what was needed.

Wow! And I thought Peter was off-base with his comment about the OTSC not being a legitimate organization because of their web site or lack thereof.

An earmark is a type of appropriation; one that circumvents the normal, competitive process of allocating funds within the federal budget.

http://earmarks.omb.gov/earmarks_definition.html