Who let the MORON drive Ladder 13?

**Sstashmoo** · March-02-10, 12:37 PM

Some keep asking "why didn't someone move it when they saw the train?"

Let's see, Parked truck, high speed train barreling down on it, you'd hop in and save the truck? We could realistically be mourning the loss of a firefighter instead.

bartock · March-02-10, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by ct_alum

It is obvious that the vast majority of the posters are not First Responders. There is a phenomenom called "tunnel vision" that causes the responder to focus narrowly on the task at hand and not see items external to the task. This also causes many crashes in high speed pursuits. Was this a factor? Could be. Should the driver be insulted by the posters here? I'm sure that he feels bad enough as it is and will probably get dinged. Good point by SWMAP; "Executive Chief" [[WTF is that?) Mack shouldn't be throwing stones. If the average citizen knew how much "politics and personalities" there is in DFD and DPD, they'd puke.

Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but I thought Mack's comments - especially in light of some of the stories related to the FD leadership, budgets and expenditures of the last few weeks - sounded hollow, political and opportunistic.

**cman710** · March-02-10, 12:45 PM

I do not think this is a black and white issue.

It is entirely consistent to appreciate all that firefighters do for us to save lives, while also acknowledging that the firefighters involved in this accident made an incredibly poor decision, as well as any supervisors that should have been monitoring the situation. The accident should be investigated and appropriately addressed, and we can be thankful that no one was killed.

Buy American · March-02-10, 01:01 PM

697Macomb....that is the address of the old communications division....I am very familiar with the old place...we may know each other.

**Meddle** · March-02-10, 01:43 PM

This is not an accident. This is criminal negligence. This guy needs to be fired and arrested. Full restitution is the only option.

Macomb, American, you wouldn't remember the name Earl Joiner would you?

Retroit · March-02-10, 01:52 PM

Along the "tunnel vision" explanation, I wonder if emergency personnel are indoctrinated into taking unnecessary risks to their own life when helping others. Is it wise for firefighters to climb upon the roof of a burning structure just to poke holes in it? Is it necessary for firefighters to go into an abandoned structure that is on fire? Is it realistic to expect firefighters to climb stairs in a 110 story building that was hit by a jetliner? Does a routine auto accident necessitate the gamble that the train won't come?

I appreciate the risks that emergency personnel must take, but for heaven's sake, don't make your job more dangerous than it already is!

Michigan · March-02-10, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

This is not an accident.

Are saying this was done purposely? Do you have some inside information that we others lack? If so then please share, because that is a serious accusation.

Originally Posted by Meddle

This is criminal negligence.

I see your neeglect to consider the facts.

Originally Posted by Meddle

This guy needs to be fired and arrested.

THis is starting to sound like a personal vendetta. I think that there is some sort of inside relationship here. Jilted lover perhaps?

Originally Posted by Meddle

Full restitution is the only option.

That is another falsehood. There are myriad options available. The most likely being that the city will be reimbursed by its insurance carrier. Just like any other automobile accident would be handled. Unless you are saying that Detroit is not insured?

I think that you just like to meddle in other people's business.

**ct_alum** · March-02-10, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Some keep asking "why didn't someone move it when they saw the train?"

Let's see, Parked truck, high speed train barreling down on it, you'd hop in and save the truck? We could realistically be mourning the loss of a firefighter instead.

Both of you obviously didn't read the article - The injured FF was trying to move the truck off the tracks - Sheesh!

Buy American · March-02-10, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

This is not an accident. This is criminal negligence. This guy needs to be fired and arrested. Full restitution is the only option.

Macomb, American, you wouldn't remember the name Earl Joiner would you?

Meddle, you're kidding, right?

Earl was a fire dispatcher and a fire buff...I knew him.

**Meddle** · March-02-10, 02:34 PM

Not kidding. There is no reason for the insurance company to have to pay for this guy's negligence. Parking a rig on tracks is nothing other than negligence. These guys are paid NOT to make these kinds of mistakes.

--------

I can't remember who 400 was at the time, but I remember a comment that they would save a reel of tape a month when EJ retired. A tongue-in-cheek joke about how much he talked on the air.

**cman710** · March-02-10, 02:58 PM

Whether the insurance company will pay will depend on what the terms of the insurance contract. If the contract has a provision that allows the company to deny an insurance claim when the loss was caused by negligence, then the insurance company may not have to pay. Short of a good explanation for why the truck needed to be on the tracks, leaving a truck on train tracks would almost certainly be considered negligent [[i.e., the law's "reasonable person" would not park a truck on train tracks under normal circumstances).

Whether it would be criminally negligent would be another matter and depend on Michigan state law. At the least, though, it would probably require a finding recklessness on the part of the driver.

**downtownguy** · March-02-10, 03:12 PM

I believe the City of Detroit is self-insured. It's likely the taxpayers are taking the hit on this one.

Buy American · March-02-10, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

I believe the City of Detroit is self-insured. It's likely the taxpayers are taking the hit on this one.

You are correct, the City is self insured.

Buy American · March-02-10, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Not kidding. There is no reason for the insurance company to have to pay for this guy's negligence. Parking a rig on tracks is nothing other than negligence. These guys are paid NOT to make these kinds of mistakes.

--------

I can't remember who 400 was at the time, but I remember a comment that they would save a reel of tape a month when EJ retired. A tongue-in-cheek joke about how much he talked on the air.

Morey Roach was 400. Do you remember Chuck Ziegenbein?

**Whitehouse** · March-02-10, 03:39 PM

Whoopsie!!

Hahaha!!! "Keep back 500 feet". The traindriver didn't oblige.

**Stinger4me** · March-02-10, 04:34 PM

You have one of two options here; "you can't fix stupid" or "you plant potatoes, you get potatoes". The driver is a threat to everyone.

**Scottathew** · March-02-10, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

Whoopsie!!

Hahaha!!! "Keep back 500 feet". The traindriver didn't oblige.

That'll buff out, but not really.

- I have a tremendous respect for our firefighters. I truly appreciate what they do for us every day.

- I also have a tremendous respect for my employer and the property of my employer.

- I also have a tremendous respect for the lives and safety of others.

With the above points being made, I would honestly expect nothing less than the termination of the responsible party's employment with the Detroit Fire Department.

The very sad thing is that the union will come to the rescue of this firefighter, despite the fact that he put MANY MANY lives at risk and destroyed a ladder truck.

In any non-union situation this employee would have been fired, immediately, period, without a second thought. My goodness, the moron parked a freaking ladder truck on railroad tracks, then a commuter train filled with innocent people had to be subjected to the danger of his lack of responsibility. Heck, I wouldn't even rule out charging him with a crime. No one should have to die to make it a crime.

Fire the moron, and write up the rest of them that came with him on the truck and didn't object or move the truck themselves.

**Sstashmoo** · March-02-10, 08:10 PM

ct-alum wrote: "The injured FF was trying to move the truck off the tracks"

Then what are you crying about? It was a momentary lapse in judgement. Actually incidents at rail crossings are quite common.

**wolverine** · March-02-10, 08:18 PM

It is a black or white issue. You can't park a fire truck on railroad tracks. The amount of training firefighters receive is incredible....not something many people can do. But what just happened was downright unacceptable. If you want to trumpet your pride and respect for firefighters on this forum that's absolutely fine, you are preaching to the choir...who doesn't have deep respect for people who save others lives?

But some of you are incredibly narrow minded and need to realize not everyone who has a career in emergency response is immune to stupidity.

We're all human at the end of the day and still need to be held accountable when we put other people's lives in danger.

**Ray1936** · March-02-10, 08:54 PM

As Forrest Gump put it so brilliantly:

**Lowell** · March-02-10, 10:25 PM

Let's not be too hard on this driver. He had to be highly qualified to drive one of these rigs. It was only his parking that sucked. If this wasn't such a near disaster, it would have all the plot lines of a comedy, with Ladder ~13~ and all...