Las Vegas influenced by Detroit?

[Thruster315]

Detroit would do well to add a building like this to its inventory. There is nothing like this within 1000 miles of the CBD, and it would be a tourism generator. Taking Detroit through all the fazes of great architecture. Open your eyes to rhe future or it woll run you over.

There are lots of things not within the Detroit area, but not all of them would be tourism generators. Let's have a purpose for building something of this magnitude. Make it an opera house, have it house an aquarium, let it be the new DIA, but don't just erect a visually striking building up just for the sake of shock value. Blend art and functionality together.

If it's too functional and bland, no one cares and will take it for granted. If it's too shocking and daring, the appeal fades and gets mocked. Now come up with something that can appeal to both is the key.

[swingline]

Hmm, not sure how one should comment on this thread given that Wirt's original post provided us with some pictures but no actual viewpoint? Things have meandered a bit as a result, but that's Ok. Not criticizing. They're good pictures of a provacative building.

The Detroit-relevancy of Gehry's work and similar "wild" buildings probably lies best in their ability to illustrate why architecture matters [[to borrow Paul Goldberger's phrase). Good architecture contributes art, sense of place, and inspiration to the quality of life of its location. Detroit needs plenty more of all of these things. Controversy over the visual impact of a building doesn't have to be a bad thing. Poor scale or unkind pedestrian orientation are far worse architectural sins.

Thankfully, Downtown Detroit benefits from its mostly successful architecture. Neglect and ill-advised demolition are steadily rendering a once cohesive urban place into a mere collection of stand-alone objects though.

A Gehry designed project in Detroit would supply a much-needed declaration to the rest of the country and the global market that this city intends to take on its 21st century problems rather than succumb to them. Yet, it's pretty certain that such a declaration won't happen here with a Gehry project simply because our real estate market can't successfully pencil out his very expensive designs. But that doesn't mean that our owners, developers and leaders should settle for architectural middle-of-road for any future projects. Innovative, creative architecture doesn't have to cost $500 sq ft. and excellent architecture will be absolutely essential to whether any future downtown projects help to sustain a Detroit turnaround. Freeway exit designs won't get it done.

[Detroitnerd]

Gehry reminds me of that flim-flammer from the Music Man. Or a shakedown artist who has convinced people they need one of his buildings to "make a declaration." We have better things to spend our limited resources on.

Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken!
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken.

[d.mcc]

If everyone here knows so much about architecture, how come I only had 12 people in my studios? and only 100 in my theory lectures???

Ghery is an artist who specializes in built sculpture, but this says nothing of his ability to plan spaces in an efficient and effective manner. He designs a form, and his planners and engineers are left with the task of working the function into the space his designs leave over.

[d.mcc]

Most don't know how to design a neo-classical structure ala Kamper. Might be maybe 12 architects in the world who could properly pull it moff today.

I would call bullshit. You do realize that there are entire colleges of architecture dedicated entirely to that branch of the profession right? I could probably give you the phone numbers of 12 that I personally have worked with.

[Detroitnerd]

If everyone here knows so much about architecture, how come I only had 12 people in my studios? and only 100 in my theory lectures???

Ghery is an artist who specializes in built sculpture, but this says nothing of his ability to plan spaces in an efficient and effective manner. He designs a form, and his planners and engineers are left with the task of working the function into the space his designs leave over.

Excellent way to put it. Have you read Stewart Brand's remarks on "magazine architecture"?

[d.mcc]

"Peter Calthorpe: follies of the profession would vanish if architects decided they do craft, not art."

I am familiar with Mr. Brand

[Detroitnerd]

"Peter Calthorpe: follies of the profession would vanish if architects decided they do craft, not art."

I am familiar with Mr. Brand

Brand put it well. I, too, wish architects would walk away from the monumentalism of the last 100 years and get down to human scale and integrating their work within a landscape.

[d.mcc]

Brand put it well. I, too, wish architects would walk away from the monumentalism of the last 100 years and get down to human scale and integrating their work within a landscape.

Something Gehry is famous for NOT doing. But I guess I am a philistine, right eno?

[rb336]

There are some of Gehry's things I like, there is some brutalist arch. I like [[geisel [[giesel?) library for example). Most of both I can look at and say "interesting" but I would not want to live with it day in, day out. Gehry's getting to be a "didn't you already do that" kind of thing for me

[Ray1936]

Las Vegas has been strongly influenced by Detroit.

It has a huge workforce with just high school diplomas, one industry, and a ton of vacant homes.

And a whole lot of retirees, like me. Who goes to Detroit to retire????

[Michigan]

And a whole lot of retirees, like me. Who goes to Detroit to retire????

Well, as prices go down maybe more will!!

[PeachLaser]

Of course, the MIT problems weren't quite the same as the overly reflective Disney Concert hall in LA that raised the temp on the surrounding buildings 30 degrees and burned retnas all the way to San Jose.

I saw the Disney Center as it was half-way done being de-reflectorized. It was still very bright after all the sanding and buffing to dull its surfaces. Love the building though.

[d.mcc]

I saw the Disney Center as it was half-way done being de-reflectorized. It was still very bright after all the sanding and buffing to dull its surfaces. Love the building though.

Not to mention, even after it was done, they needed to go back and re-sandblast certain areas.

[mikeg19]

Gehry's getting to be a "didn't you already do that" kind of thing for me

I think that expresses the sentiment of a LOT of people's thoughts on Gehry's works. Yes they are vastly different in actual design, but in the same perspective they are all the same. Seems like the same thing over and over again.

[ghettopalmetto]

I think that expresses the sentiment of a LOT of people's thoughts on Gehry's works. Yes they are vastly different in actual design, but in the same perspective they are all the same. Seems like the same thing over and over again.

And that in itself speaks to a lack of respect for any context, history, sense of place, culture, or building function, and more to his own oversized ego.

[Gannon]

This is a classic example of holding unique as the highest ideal...'nobody has ever done this before' kinda thinking.

I see it with automobiles and other items that have grown into fashion...well beyond variations of practical use and proportion.



I think engineers and architects should be required to submit their designs to some board of philosophers who will assist them in divining 'why' a thing hasn't been done a certain way before.

It might help change a few 'would' or 'could' into 'should'...or in THIS case, 'should not'.


I have to suffer seeing that monstrosity in Minneapolis every time I visit there...and each and every time I see it, as it gets uglier with the aging of the metal panels, I simply ask why and want to have a word with those who commissioned it.



This fellow is no genius...or perhaps he IS like Lloyd-Wright...just a generation ahead of the materials and engineering required to actually build his imaginations correctly. Falling Waters could be built properly today...and I daresay it should be done again right!

I find no value in doing a thing merely because it was never done before...I am not a part of the whole 'new must mean improved' meme.



In defense of Detroit...I take offense at the premise of this thread. Gehry hasn't emulated anything that echoes Detroit beyond perhaps a bad acid trip during a disjointed show at the Grande Ballroom.


Cheers anyways...thank the Maker that I left LA before the Disney thing was built, I really don't need any more evidence of this relative foolishness.

[LeannaM]

What an ugly building.

It belongs in Vegas.

[mikeg19]

If everyone here knows so much about architecture, how come I only had 12 people in my studios? and only 100 in my theory lectures???

Ghery is an artist who specializes in built sculpture, but this says nothing of his ability to plan spaces in an efficient and effective manner. He designs a form, and his planners and engineers are left with the task of working the function into the space his designs leave over.

Where is it you teach at????

[Dabirch]

I think that expresses the sentiment of a LOT of people's thoughts on Gehry's works. Yes they are vastly different in actual design, but in the same perspective they are all the same. Seems like the same thing over and over again.

How functionally different are Kahn's industrial complexes? His office towers?

How different are the Kamper or Stratton houses in Indian Village?

How different are all of Wright's houses? or Van Der Rohe's towers?

Or, if you like period architecture, how different is the Ford building from the Dime Building from the Buhl Building?

[Michigan]

We sound like Philistines! We should welcome this sort of progression to Detroit. I kid you not, there is a huge market to come and see this modern work juxtaposed to Detroit's great older work. The amount of tourism alone would pay for the investment. This is the typical no no no mentality that holds our country back behind the rest of the world.

People flock to Montreal for tourism and it is cold, why can't Detroit do the same?

[Detroitnerd]

We sound like Philistines! We should welcome this sort of progression to Detroit. I kid you not, there is a huge market to come and see this modern work juxtaposed to Detroit's great older work. The amount of tourism alone would pay for the investment. This is the typical no no no mentality that holds our country back behind the rest of the world.

No, this is looking at Gehry architecture and seeing what it's good at [[being controversial and eye-catching) and what it's bad at [[being a silver bullet for economic development and tourism, being integrated into neighborhood design, having unity of form and function, sensible cost-to-benefits ratio, being in alignment with human scale, being easy to care for, etc., etc., etc.).

[Michigan]

No, this is looking at Gehry architecture and seeing what it's good at [[being controversial and eye-catching) and what it's bad at [[being a silver bullet for economic development and tourism, being integrated into neighborhood design, having unity of form and function, sensible cost-to-benefits ratio, being in alignment with human scale, being easy to care for, etc., etc., etc.).

I don't agree. The Fisher building and the Poletown plants don't blend in with their neighborhoods either. They created a neighborhood around themselves. So will these as they grow in economic importance.

[Detroitnerd]

I don't agree. The Fisher building and the Poletown plants don't blend in with their neighborhoods either. They created a neighborhood around themselves. So will these as they grow in economic importance.

The Fisher building created a neighborhood around it?

The Poletown plant created a neighborhood around it?

[DetroitPlanner]

The Fisher building created a neighborhood around it?

The Poletown plant created a neighborhood around it?

Hmmm dunno about these, Like DN I have to question these statements as well. The original Model T factory was just a few blocks from the Fisher and it predated the Fisher by 20 years. Some would argue that the Poletown plant destroyed a couple of neighborhoods. I don't see much evidence of anything around Poletown that was built because of it. Yeah there is a jail up there, but its there most likely because the land was cheap and available.