Michigan Identification [[keeping tabs)

**ggores** · February-26-10, 08:29 AM

Having been relieved of duty by the oncoming nite squad, I departed post and beat it to the local pharmaceutical to nab a twelve of barley and hops. Usual fare on a late February evening in the diggs. Sat the cold pack on the counter and whipped out my debit card for swiping, and therefore, paying by way of EFT. Rummy says to me, "Swipe your ID." And thus began the following exchange:

"ID? You mean my debit card, no?"

"No, your identification. Swipe it."

Befuddled, I broke out one of my various Michigan State identification cards and showed it to the man.

"You mean this?"

"Yes, that's it."

I pulled away and put that ID card back into the wallet and he became agitated when I further explained:

"Wrong one. Let me get the right one."

I whipped out a convenient driver's license and swiped it. Babba dee boop, the cash register sounded, some lights flashed and the OK was given to make the purchase.

"OK", said the attendant.

"The fuck is THIS all about? Now I have to swipe AGAIN to pay for this?"

"Yep, it's the new system just installed today."

"Jezzuz christ", I says, "Unbelieveable."

Swiped and paid, took the receipt and beat feet out the door.

In other words, this is something new - swiping your State ID card [[or driver's license) prior to making any purchase of sinful suds or smokes, and probably perhaps condoms. I do not support this, not one bit. Sheesh, I guess Gannon has been right all along.

**johnsmith** · February-26-10, 09:10 AM

Just like when they demand to see ID from a 40 something year old with his or her 10 year old children standing right next to them to buy beer. Ridiculous. I thought it was bad enough they have to type in your birthday, but now, with your ID swipe, they'll probably keep track of all of your personal details. "It's to keep the children safe and sober!" Bull$#!t.

**ndavies** · February-26-10, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by ggores

Having been relieved of duty by the oncoming nite squad, I departed post and beat it to the local pharmaceutical to nab a twelve of barley and hops. Usual fare on a late February evening in the diggs. Sat the cold pack on the counter and whipped out my debit card for swiping, and therefore, paying by way of EFT. Rummy says to me, "Swipe your ID." And thus began the following exchange:

"ID? You mean my debit card, no?"

"No, your identification. Swipe it."

Befuddled, I broke out one of my various Michigan State identification cards and showed it to the man.

"You mean this?"

"Yes, that's it."

I pulled away and put that ID card back into the wallet and he became agitated when I further explained:

"Wrong one. Let me get the right one."

I whipped out a convenient driver's license and swiped it. Babba dee boop, the cash register sounded, some lights flashed and the OK was given to make the purchase.

"OK", said the attendant.

"The fuck is THIS all about? Now I have to swipe AGAIN to pay for this?"

"Yep, it's the new system just installed today."

"Jezzuz christ", I says, "Unbelieveable."

Swiped and paid, took the receipt and beat feet out the door.

In other words, this is something new - swiping your State ID card [[or driver's license) prior to making any purchase of sinful suds or smokes, and probably perhaps condoms. I do not support this, not one bit. Sheesh, I guess Gannon has been right all along.

It's simple say never mind, walk out the door and go find another store. If enough people do this and they quit selling alcohol because of a stupid in store policy, they will soon change the policy.

**Ray1936** · February-26-10, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by ndavies

It's simple say never mind, walk out the door and go find another store. If enough people do this and they quit selling alcohol because of a stupid in store policy, they will soon change the policy.

Wise advice from ndavies, once again.

Retroit · February-26-10, 01:55 PM

What's the big deal? Store owners can be prosecuted for selling alcohol to the under-aged. Don't they have a right to protect themselves? They don't write the laws. I'm sure most of them would be more than happy to sell booze to a 20 year old if it were legal.

**ndavies** · February-26-10, 03:01 PM

Sorry I, refuse to have my ID associated with an alcohol purchase. You do know your full name and address is buried in that strip. Computers never forget.

What about my privacy rights and protection against someone keeping track of my vices. Why would I trust the corner convenience store to protect me from the government or an angry lawsuit.

I can see angry lawyers out subpoenaing every party store within a thirty mile radius when there's a minor fender bender, workplace accident or a particularly nasty divorce. I can for-see a witch hunt against someone whose only transgression is they like to buy alcohol at the corner party store.

I don't use credit or store reward programs for these types of purchases. Why would you trust any of these businesses to protect your privacy.

**Ragtoplover59** · February-26-10, 04:19 PM

"What about my privacy rights and protection against someone keeping track of my vices. Why would I trust the corner convenience store to protect me from the government or an angry lawsuit."

While I agree with you, I know that the problem will not end just because I didn't use my ID or credit card.

I would also need to give up use of all car's that have "On Star".
[[get a ticket for speeding,On Star could someday be used to prove or disprove a case)

I'm sure you have seen the Ad showing On Star shutting down a car, Put the right computer setup in a police car, and all cars become "bait" cars. But thats a good thing! Right?

And also my wonderful multi-use all in one tool....my cell phone!
[[someone commits a crime, gets caught later and says he was never there. Better not have had a smart phone on his person, that nifty little GPS that is built in, has tracked his phones every move.)

Now I know no one is sitting , looking at a screen, watching how my day unfolds.
But give someone a good enough reason to check, and all that info can be had with the click of a mouse.

We just have to face it, with the products we have nowadays, we can be outsmarted in a heartbeat. we're not talking micro-waves and VCRs anymore

Ravine · February-26-10, 07:49 PM

ndavies wrote:

"It's simple say never mind, walk out the door and go find another store. If enough people do this and they quit selling alcohol because of a stupid in store policy, they will soon change the policy."

100% Agree. Don't do it. You know it is bullshit. Don't do it. Plenty of party stores, in Detroit, who will sell you beer without running you through any bullshit like that.

Retroit wrote:

"What's the big deal? Store owners can be prosecuted for selling alcohol to the under-aged. Don't they have a right to protect themselves? They don't write the laws. I'm sure most of them would be more than happy to sell booze to a 20 year old if it were legal."

You are completely missing the point. You are not even within hollerin' distance of the point. Proof of being 21 has been easy enough, with no electronics involved, for all of the days up to this one. Ggores was told it was a new system, just installed. Who said anything about the law, or who writes the laws?

This is a policy that deserves to be mercilessly stomped into the ground. I don't buy beer, but if I did, there is no way that I would buy it from a place using that policy.

**Detroitej72** · February-26-10, 08:13 PM

I've experienced the same problem when I go the the drug store to buy some cold or allergy medicine. Now you must go to the pharmacy, show your ID and the computer will refuse you if you have bought too much decongestant medication in the last month. What happens if you have a large family and its needed?

This big brother $h!t is getting out of hand.

**Roq** · February-26-10, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

I've experienced the same problem when I go the the drug store to buy some cold or allergy medicine. Now you must go to the pharmacy, show your ID and the computer will refuse you if you have bought too much decongestant medication in the last month. What happens if you have a large family and its needed?

This big brother $h!t is getting out of hand.

Just a tip if you go to Windsor, pick up a couple boxes. They still sell it over the counter without all this b.s.

**Jimaz** · February-26-10, 08:31 PM

the computer will refuse you if you have bought too much decongestant medication in the last month

I think that's an ingredient in meth manufacturing, which I thought wasn't much of a problem around here.

**East Detroit** · February-26-10, 08:38 PM

Yet almost everyone who has one will happily fork over his ID in order to vote.

Poll tax is okay, but tracking your beer purchases is not?

**mjs** · February-26-10, 10:41 PM

East Detroit, I'm not following. I always vote and I've never paid a poll tax.

As for showing my ID to vote. I have no problem with their knowing I voted at the only place I'm allowed to vote when they don't know who I voted for or even when I voted.

With a beer swipe system, they now know how much, where, when, what type, how often. None of their business. On that topic, does Big Brother still know what books I'm checking out of the library in the hopes of reading my thoughts?

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."

**jiminnm** · February-27-10, 08:23 PM

Poll Taxes have been unconstitutional since 1964.

**East Detroit** · February-28-10, 05:31 AM

So, even though some people don't need an ID otherwise, they still need one to vote?

They really don't, so far, but try voting without one sometime and see what kind of hassle they give you... anything from ignorant poll workers saying you have to, to other voters getting bitchy.

**Hermod** · February-28-10, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

So, even though some people don't need an ID otherwise, they still need one to vote?

They really don't, so far, but try voting without one sometime and see what kind of hassle they give you... anything from ignorant poll workers saying you have to, to other voters getting bitchy.

They say that having to show an ID in order to vote discriminates against minorities because they are less likely to have ID.

The requirement to show ID at the voting booth is an attempt to eliminate voter fraud by having party "technicians" voting tombstones.

**Patrick** · February-28-10, 11:05 AM

I'm sure most of them would be more than happy to sell booze to a 20 year old if it were legal.

Many stores do, in this economy even with the risk of punishment.

**Detroitej72** · February-28-10, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

I think that's an ingredient in meth manufacturing, which I thought wasn't much of a problem around here.

Pretty sure your right. On the same path, baby formula is being locked behind glass at many drug stores supposedly because its used to hold crack together.

**ggores** · March-09-10, 12:31 PM

After the initial shock, and avoiding this store for several days, I went back to restock and I was much more unquestioning of having my driver's license run through the register first. And this is the disturbing part.... my mind became used to the fact of this infrigment. I believe there is a phrase, the slow erosion of freedom. How over a looooong stretch of time these freedom eroders are put in place, little by little.

The various issues brought up here all make good points, but to me it all boils down to simply avoiding things that do not necessarily compute. And so, my shopping habits have since changed. Viva Life!

**EMG** · March-11-10, 02:27 PM

In the final analysis, this sort of thing is really only a problem for people who have something to hide.

**ndavies** · March-11-10, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by EMG

In the final analysis, this sort of thing is really only a problem for people who have something to hide.

No, this is only a problem for people who want their privacy protected.

Obviously you are willing to share everything about yourself with the government and the corporate interests that put these policies in place. I am not.

**gnome** · March-11-10, 02:54 PM

What causes an avalanche? The first snow flake or the last?

Small erosion's in personal freedom come as tiny flakes. Here and there we don't even feel them, maybe even think such things are to our benefit, but the final outcome will be frightening.

**ggores** · March-12-10, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by EMG

In the final analysis, this sort of thing is really only a problem for people who have something to hide.

Spooky logic.

**EMG** · March-12-10, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ragtoplover59

"What about my privacy rights and protection against someone keeping track of my vices. Why would I trust the corner convenience store to protect me from the government or an angry lawsuit."

While I agree with you, I know that the problem will not end just because I didn't use my ID or credit card.

I would also need to give up use of all car's that have "On Star".
[[get a ticket for speeding,On Star could someday be used to prove or disprove a case)

I'm sure you have seen the Ad showing On Star shutting down a car, Put the right computer setup in a police car, and all cars become "bait" cars. But thats a good thing! Right?

And also my wonderful multi-use all in one tool....my cell phone!
[[someone commits a crime, gets caught later and says he was never there. Better not have had a smart phone on his person, that nifty little GPS that is built in, has tracked his phones every move.)

Now I know no one is sitting , looking at a screen, watching how my day unfolds.
But give someone a good enough reason to check, and all that info can be had with the click of a mouse.

We just have to face it, with the products we have nowadays, we can be outsmarted in a heartbeat. we're not talking micro-waves and VCRs anymore

And this is exactly what I meant by my so-called "spooky logic."

If you're not an alcoholic drunkard who gets behind the wheel while intoxicated and has accidents and/or kills people, it's not a problem if the store has a record that you purchased alcohol.

If you don't use the Internet to perform illegal activities, it's not a problem if there's a record of every site you visit.

If you don't steal cars, or use your own car to commit crimes, it's not a problem if your car's whereabouts can be tracked using On-Star.

Am I saying I'm in favor of all of these new "invasions of privacy" or that they're necessarily a good thing? No. But I am saying that in the overall scheme of things, they're really not something the average decent citizen needs to get all up in arms about.

As technology advances, the degree of "privacy" available is going to diminish, plain and simple, and there's really very little we can do about it whether we like it or not. If there's fear of having "vices" exposed, the solution is going to have to be to give up the "vices."

We're just really coming full cycle. Just as many forms of technology developed over the last few past generations have made more vices easier to get away with [[think birth control pills, Internet porn, caller ID block), the ongoing development of newer technologies is now starting to make them more difficult again.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The person who doesn't have anything to hide doesn't have anything to worry about.

My advice to those of you who worry about things like grocery store cards is: don't ever Google your own name, address, or phone number. You're liable to have an apoplectic fit when you find out what's probably already available to the whole wide world.