Why did Newark produce Cory Booker, and Detroit Kwame Kilpatrick?

[Motor City Sam]

Has everybody been to Newark? I don't think the young people staying there, are doing so because of the nearby "diverse" economies of Philadelphia and New York -- or they'd move there. The people in Newark are poor and under-employed or unemployed, much like Detroit.

I was in Newark on a business trip back in 2000, so it's been awhile. Having grown up in Detroit I'm used to being in an urban environment that can be kind of rough in places, and I've traveled to many cities in the US. Newark is the only place I ever said to myself, "Man, I really have to watch myself here."

Of course, I'm sure that someone from Newark could come to Detroit and say the same thing.

[DetroitDad]

What has really always amazed me is that there are millions of people living outside city property, who appear to never think about, or are okay with living in a society surrounding a big donut hole of lawlessness, greed, and corruption; the breeding grounds of the problems their own children and grand children will soon be faced with.

The time to act is now against corruption and crime, but they just won't do it, they won't

[firstandten]

Going back to the time KK was first elected I think the people of Detroit thought they had there Cory Booker or Adrien Fenty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Fenty

The people saw KK as someone young, smart and unlike the previous two went to a top-tier HBCU , where in some sections of our community I think Harvard, Yale even Stanford would have been seen as too corporalist. The people saw that versus Gil Hill, new blood and fresh ideals could be used to help Detroit. Thats understandable. The mistake the people made was electing him to the second term. However, knowing what we know now, too many palms had been greased, and the election may also have been stolen from Hendrix.

I believe Detroit wants and actually thought they had a Cory Booker or Fenty in its mist. I believe that person exist in the city but they would not be "black enough" for key segments of the population. KK even though he is a Gen X person is more in tune with the Civil Rights movement generation because of his upbringing and that helps him in a city like Detroit.

[iheartthed]

One of Booker's biggest strengths, IMO, is his willingness to go out in the streets and interact with ordinary people, address their concerns, and find out what makes them tick. Kilpatrick spent a lot of time talking at his constituents, but I don't know that he ever really listened to them, and Dave Bing seems entirely indifferent to their existence.

Booker knows a good publicity stunt when he sees one. Take this example from the Wikipedia page: I mean, how can you not love a mayor who does that? Can you see Dave Bing personally shoveling somebody's driveway? Kwame? Hell, Ken Cockrel? Me neither.

Yeah, Detroit has never seen a politician like Booker, and that includes Archer. Booker is a progressive... His closest Detroit area counterpart would probably be Hansen Clarke.

[English]

KK's latest updates are on CNN Newsroom as I type these words. Does the national media even know that we have a new mayor?

To be honest, I don't think that our Cory Booker has to be black. Just as America voted in their first black president a couple of years ago, I do think that the right nonblack candidate could foil the black nationalist-and-church establishment in Detroit. Take it from me as a black Detroiter who grew up going to the Shrine bookstore, with militant relatives, and baptized in a city church. The *second* there is a charismatic white, Latino, or Arab candidate who can code-switch and shift among all communities, that person will be our new mayor.

The problem so far is that even the most well-meaning of candidates hasn't been able to walk the talk in the mainstream black Detroit community... and then resent it when they lose. Did Obama give up politics when Rush beat him silly in 2000? Did Booker wash his hands of politics when James whooped his tail in 2002? NO!!!

What is bewildering to me is that in my hometown, unqualified and underqualified shysters run over and over and over again until the voters finally know their name and they win *something*. Yet the good people get discouraged after one or two tries and quit.

I guess I don't understand it because my dream also took lots of persistence. I have been trying *hard* to publish a book since I was 19 years old, and it's only now, at age 32, that I have my first contract. My purpose is to teach, write, and eventually restart my defunct nonprofit which I started and wrote a grant for at age 16... and all for the love of Detroit. NOTHING will get in the way of that dream.

This sista encourages would-be Detroit heroes to grow a set, and keep going. Yes, it is harder here than lots of other places, harder than it has to be... but imagine the rewards once we finally get it right!

[iheartthed]

Has everybody been to Newark? I don't think the young people staying there, are doing so because of the nearby "diverse" economies of Philadelphia and New York -- or they'd move there. The people in Newark are poor and under-employed or unemployed, much like Detroit.

I've been to Newark. I was there last weekend in fact. In some ways Detroit is better off, and in some ways it is worse off. Detroit is depressed, but it isn't as depressed as Newark, IMO. There is nothing in Newark resembling downtown Detroit. And there are also aren't really any neighborhoods like Palmer Woods, Indian Village, the Rosedale Parks, etc. Detroit may only have a handful of Starbucks, but Newark only had one and it closed a year ago.

On the other hand, Newark's population has begun to grow again. Part of that is because it is located 8 miles from Midtown Manhattan, and is a much cheaper alternative for immigrant families than living in NYC. [[Philadelphia's economy has little to no effect on Newark -- Newark is a satellite of NYC.)

[firstandten]

To be honest, I don't think that our Cory Booker has to be black. Just as America voted in their first black president a couple of years ago, I do think that the right nonblack candidate could foil the black nationalist-and-church establishment in Detroit. Take it from me as a black Detroiter who grew up going to the Shrine bookstore, with militant relatives, and baptized in a city church. The *second* there is a charismatic white, Latino, or Arab candidate who can code-switch and shift among all communities, that person will be our new mayor.

I agree but I don't see that person currently on the horizon. Maybe once the council votes by district that person will emerge. However, I tell my wife all the time that if Fieger ran for mayor I believe he could win.

The problem so far is that even the most well-meaning of candidates hasn't been able to walk the talk in the mainstream black Detroit community... and then resent it when they lose. Did Obama give up politics when Rush beat him silly in 2000? Did Booker wash his hands of politics when James whooped his tail in 2002? NO!!!

Obama knew he made a mistake even while campaigning, running against Rush so I don't think that discouraged him at all. However, according to his statements in his books to Michelle he was down to his last strike when he ran for the Senate. Due to an increditable set of circumstances, all of which fell in his favor he won that race.

What is bewildering to me is that in my hometown, unqualified and underqualified shysters run over and over and over again until the voters finally know their name and they win *something*. Yet the good people get discouraged after one or two tries and quit.

Yes, they are unqualified and shysters but you must add the words politically connected to that. Thats why they win. The good people find that without bending their ethics they can't get the political backing and funds in the D and thats why they quit. They don't want to be that "professional candidate" who runs and runs and runs trying to get that name recognition however never winning. You can go broke doing that stuff.

I guess I don't understand it because my dream also took lots of persistence. I have been trying *hard* to publish a book since I was 19 years old, and it's only now, at age 32, that I have my first contract. My purpose is to teach, write, and eventually restart my defunct nonprofit which I started and wrote a grant for at age 16... and all for the love of Detroit. NOTHING will get in the way of that dream.

This sista encourages would-be Detroit heroes to grow a set, and keep going. Yes, it is harder here than lots of other places, harder than it has to be... but imagine the rewards once we finally get it right!

I tip my hat to your success, You are a example that Detroiters can look up to !

[Haikoont]

Just from this thread I learned that English was an honors student at Renaissance, has a contract to write a book and started a non-profit at age 16. Maybe he or she is our Cory Booker.

[d'oh]

Yes, GREAT post English...

[firstandten]

Yes, GREAT post English...

<<However, I tell my wife all the time that if Fieger ran for mayor I believe he could win. >>
Am I wrong or isn't Feiger just a show-boating clown?..

He might be that, but blacks in this town considers him a fighter for the rights of the little man/woman and the show-boating just adds to the appeal. [[Now the problem I might have with him is looking at his commercials it looks like he doesn't have one black attorney in his firm).

[English]

Just from this thread I learned that English was an honors student at Renaissance, has a contract to write a book and started a non-profit at age 16. Maybe he or she is our Cory Booker.

That's so kind of you. But I'm far too much of an egghead, extremely geeky, and have struggled with social skills since I was a kid walking up to Mim's candy store right off Davison and I-96. No politics in my future! I have classmates and friends who are into the political world. They have always been charismatic and passionate. They can have it. I'll volunteer, but I don't even want to be precinct captain, let alone run for office.

Thinking about it, if Dwight Schrute from *The Office* was a black and a woman, that would be me. An academic is what I've become, and academia is where I belong.

However, there are some really, really cool people in the Detroit civic and arts community from all backgrounds whom I've met. We just need to get them connected to the black churches and fraternal organizations in the city -- love 'em, hate 'em, or indifferent, you need some kind of machine to GOTV.

[English]

Yes, GREAT post English...

Thanks. Standard, garden variety pep talk, warmed over from my Cass Tech days. Not sure I'll ever get over my 2005 layoff... I miss that school, my fellow teachers, administrators, and staff, and teaching bright Detroit kids so badly. There was never, ever a dull moment in the classroom or in the halls. I had a rocky start, but all things considered, it was the best job I've ever had.

[R8RBOB]

Thanks. Standard, garden variety pep talk, warmed over from my Cass Tech days. Not sure I'll ever get over my 2005 layoff... I miss that school, my fellow teachers, administrators, and staff, and teaching bright Detroit kids so badly. There was never, ever a dull moment in the classroom or in the halls. I had a rocky start, but all things considered, it was the best job I've ever had.

I just remembered that you were a teacher. I had a brief job as a contractor for DPS when I returned to Detroit in 04. I give credit to teachers like yourself because I got to witness with my very own two eyes what teachers in the "D" had to go through with the students each and every day when I visited the schools. I graduated in '89 and the stuff I saw as I visited the schools left me with a deep sadness pondering what's next.

[English]

To be honest, I got lucky. I was never in the trenches. I student-taught at Davis Aerospace with my old teacher from Renaissance, got a job at my K-8 alma mater, Bates Academy, and then from there transferred to Cass Tech. I hung on as long as I could, and then got a teaching job outside of the city.

I think the schools are one step away from being taken over by a districtwide charter. I find that very sad. In Chicago, there are some schools being run by neighborhood co-ops. Maybe that could eventually work in Detroit.

[DetroitDad]

I was under the impression that Kwame really thought he was doing the right thing, he really thought that he was God's soldier, or what have you. He saw nothing wrong with getting all his friends out of the ghetto and into the life I'm sure he thought they deserved. Kwame thought and thinks of himself as a savior who went down for his beliefs.

In reality, Kwame was a joke that some could easily control. The guy had no idea what the Heck he was doing, or what he should be doing.

Others in our government really know what needs to be done, but they don't know how to get where they want to go, or how to get past the hand of corruption that is holding Detroit hostage.

Still others know exactly what needs to be done, I agree with English that there are many of them; those who know what they're doing. For some reason, they are procrastinating, they're waiting for something... God only knows why. I think more "good" people have made it than we know, but have really been working behind the scenes for change. A charismatic leader in the public eye might be an open target at this point in time. Sometimes when things are done right, for a good cause, you never even know anything has happened at all.

Detroit isn't completely dead, and I think that is strong evidence there are a lot of unseen people working hard; some underground Detroit Army.

[Brick City Bandit]

Hello Detroit,

I see that we share a common desire to find that candidate which possesses honorable traits and strong moral and ethical fiber. In Newark we once believed that Cory was that person. It has shown itself not to be the case. His tenure has produced some of the most inept decision making and pay to play politics in the history of the city. I could go on for days attempting to provide all the details but would rather you all visit NewarkSpeaks.com to see, that just as all of you here seem to feel, we also are in need of honest government.

Please Google the most recent events in Newark pertaining to police corruption, FBI investigations and the indictment of the former deputy mayor who was hand picked by Cory Booker. The point I wish to make is simply to watch what you wish for because you might, just as we did in Newark, get it.

If you visit our little corner of the world via NewarkSpeaks, please check the contributions made by posters like Make Newark Clean, Miss Tam-Tam, ProSouth, HaveSeenEnough, Braveheart, ACLU-NJ and 5Reasons. They seem to provide the best overall picture of the corruption, both political and police-wise, within Newark.

[trstar]

Going back to the time KK was first elected I think the people of Detroit thought they had there Cory Booker or Adrien Fenty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Fenty

The people saw KK as someone young, smart and unlike the previous two went to a top-tier HBCU , where in some sections of our community I think Harvard, Yale even Stanford would have been seen as too corporalist. The people saw that versus Gil Hill, new blood and fresh ideals could be used to help Detroit. Thats understandable. The mistake the people made was electing him to the second term. However, knowing what we know now, too many palms had been greased, and the election may also have been stolen from Hendrix.

I believe Detroit wants and actually thought they had a Cory Booker or Fenty in its mist. I believe that person exist in the city but they would not be "black enough" for key segments of the population. KK even though he is a Gen X person is more in tune with the Civil Rights movement generation because of his upbringing and that helps him in a city like Detroit.

I couldn't agree with you more. We were fooled, by the pedigree, the assumed political savvy, and mostly the maturity. What we got was a spoiled brat, wanna player, and political buzz-word generator.

[Motor City Sam]

Hello Detroit,

I see that we share a common desire to find that candidate which possesses honorable traits and strong moral and ethical fiber. In Newark we once believed that Cory was that person. It has shown itself not to be the case. His tenure has produced some of the most inept decision making and pay to play politics in the history of the city. I could go on for days attempting to provide all the details but would rather you all visit NewarkSpeaks.com to see, that just as all of you here seem to feel, we also are in need of honest government.

Please Google the most recent events in Newark pertaining to police corruption, FBI investigations and the indictment of the former deputy mayor who was hand picked by Cory Booker. The point I wish to make is simply to watch what you wish for because you might, just as we did in Newark, get it.

If you visit our little corner of the world via NewarkSpeaks, please check the contributions made by posters like Make Newark Clean, Miss Tam-Tam, ProSouth, HaveSeenEnough, Braveheart, ACLU-NJ and 5Reasons. They seem to provide the best overall picture of the corruption, both political and police-wise, within Newark.

Interesting. A brother of mine lives in Passaic and he thinks Booker is great. Another guy I know lives in Newark and shares the opinion of my brother with regards to the Mayor.

[maxx]

When people say that someone isn't black enough, do they even know what they are saying? Has "black enough" ever been defined? Or is it just a question of trust? And what does it take to win the trust of Detroiters?

[dookie joe]

Let's hold off a bit on canonizing Saint Dennis the Archer, shall we? As far as I'm concerned he was just another politician who was in the pockets of the rich and powerful.

When a rash of schoolgirls were getting raped, Saint Dennis was going around to churches -- stumping for casino support. Only after much criticism did he deem the schoolgirl rapes important enough to mention, although his main priority remained getting the casino issue passed, despite the fact that the will of the people had already been made clear by rejecting the proposal several times.

Archer also worked hard to ram the stadium issue down the throats of voters when, again, our wishes had been made crystal clear. We overwhelmingly passed a resolution to ban spending a dime of precious city money on a new ballpark for billionare Mike Ilitch.

Saint Dennis got his stadiums and casinos, but the holes in the schoolhouse roofs didn't get fixed. Of course, the city's leader didn't go around stumping to have those school problems addressed the way he did with the stadiums and casinos. If he had, maybe something would've "gotten done" on that front, too.

Also, lest we forget, the police department under his watch became so corrupt the feds had to bring in oversight. The Consent Decree was initiated largely because of things that happened under Archer.

Now I can't blame the mayor entirely for what goes on in the police department, but he maintained the status quo even after rampant shootings by the likes of Eugene Brown, along with the cover-ups of those shootings, were exposed. Did Archer call anyone on the carpet? Did he replace his good ol' boy police chief? The answer is no.

Look at what happened with his administration's handling of the Packard Plant. With his approval, there were Gang Squad officers staked out in the lobby of the plant 24 hours a day for several months, although no reason was ever given why. These officers illegally frisked people going in and out of the complex, in what tenants said was a bullying tactic to get them to move out. In many cases it worked. The Archer Administration also ignored a judge's orders to cease and desist tearing down the plant, and building officials were hauled into court several times to explain why they weren't adhering to what the judge had ordered. Archer's people tried every dirty trick in the book to try to get control of that plant, when it was owned by a private citizen. Why, we can only guess, although there were hints of a huge environmental funding payoff.

Saint Dennis also helped bury reports that his spokesman Greg Bowens had been caught picking up a hooker. Luckily for those interested in the truth, a police officer leaked the actual report, which wound up on the Internet. Was an investigation launched into this coverup? What do you think?

Dennis Archer was just another politician in rich people's pockets. The fact that he didn't speak jive doesn't make him any less crooked. People say "well, Archer got things done." Yeah -- when he wanted to [[rather, when his puppetmasters wanted him to).

Meanwhile, he did nothing about the corrupt police department until he was forced to. However, he did indeed get things done, such as subvert the will of the voters in favor of the rich and powerful casino and stadium interests.

Now I realize we live in the real world, where politicians have to woo the rich and powerful in order to get things done. But they shouldn't do it to the deteriment of what the people have voted for. The voters spoke loudly and clearly on the casino and stadium issues, but Saint Dennis was only listening to one sound: Cha-Ching! Then he turned around and acted like he was serving us.

Sounds like just another bullshitting politician to me.

[Motor City Sam]

Joe, your post is full of inaccuracies and bias. No one but you called Archer "Saint Dennis" or has gone overboard in their comments about him, so you're arguing a point that hasn't even been made. Your comments are a regurgitation of the Michigan Citizen anti Archer stance.

Nobody claims Archer was perfect, but I'd be more than happy to go back to the days of balanced budgets, a small tax cut, greater police presence, new housing developments, and, oh yeah, my Mayor not being a national embarrassment.

[dookie joe]

Joe, your post is full of inaccuracies and bias. No one but you called Archer "Saint Dennis" or has gone overboard in their comments about him, so you're arguing a point that hasn't even been made. Your comments are a regurgitation of the Michigan Citizen anti Archer stance.

I never once read the Michigan Citizen story. I arrived at my conclusions all by myself, which is a point worth considering.

Now, if you want to accuse my post of being biased, I will plead guilty. Of course it's biased, because I am of the personal belief that those who pine for the "good old days" of the Archer Administration are either misinformed or misguided. So, obviously, it was a biased post.

However, I'm gonna have to call you on your allegation that my post was "full of inaccuracies." If you're going to make that claim, then you'd better back it up, Junior.

What was inaccurate?

Are you saying Archer wasn't criticized during the schoolgirl rapes for spending all his time stumping in churches for the casinos? He was.

Are you saying the police department didn't agree to federal oversight based on rampant shootings and civil rights violations that largely occurred during Archer's administration? They did.

Are you saying someone in the police department was held accountable for this? Who? Benny Napoleon didn't lose his job. Who did?

Are you saying the mayor's office didn't order the Gang Squad to sit in the lobby of the Packard Plant for several months, and violate a judge's orders to stop demolishing the place? They did.

Call me biased all you want, but if you're going to claim I'm inaccurate, you'd better have some facts to back it up, son. Otherwise, stay out of the big leagues when it comes to debating.

Nobody claims Archer was perfect, but I'd be more than happy to go back to the days of balanced budgets, a small tax cut, greater police presence, new housing developments, and, oh yeah, my Mayor not being a national embarrassment.

I think Archer was less crooked than Kilpatrick, and far more professional. Dennis Archer had a quiet, dignified, articulate bearing, so in that sense he was the anti-Kwame.

But a politician is more than how he acts in public. Those good old days you pine for weren't quite as good as you're making them out to be. There were lots of problems during his administration, and plenty of questionable deals.

And a lot of the fiscal things you cite, such as tax cuts, budgets and developments, are a function of the larger economy, out of the mayor of Detroit's control. Archer was mayor during the boom-times of the '90s.

I don't think he was the worst politician ever to walk the face of the earth. But to me, he was just another crook, like most of 'em are.

[Motor City Sam]

Joe, I should have realized the futility of trying to have a sensible conversation with someone who calls himself "Dookie Joe", so I'll just let this be my last post on the matter. I have no desire to get into a name calling contest with someone who considers an internet message board debate the "big leagues". And just so you know, resorting to calling someone "son" and "junior" only shows a weakness in the debating skills of which you seem to be so proud.

I won't waste time picking your original post apart, but here's the main inaccuracy in your post about Archer. You claim he was trying to ram the casino proposals down our throats, but the truth is his strong support only began AFTER the city wide vote approving casinos. That is a glaring misrepresentation on your part, showing either an ignorance of the facts, or a bias so strong that it disregards the truth.

Feel free to continue your name calling and internet tough guy act but don't expect me to reply. I've already wasted enough time on this.

[exmotowner]

Same reason DC had Marion Barry [[the one caught on tape snorting coke) and got re-elected. I bet if KK ran again in Detroit, he would probably get elected again too. Not much confidence in the voters in Detroit.

[dookie joe]

I won't waste time picking your original post apart, but here's the main inaccuracy in your post about Archer. You claim he was trying to ram the casino proposals down our throats, but the truth is his strong support only began AFTER the city wide vote approving casinos.

Ahhh...so his "strong" support only started after the voters approved it. And before that, did he merely support the casinos a little bit? A teensie bit? What's your definition of "strong" support?

Beside that, there's the fundamental question: Why would Archer feel the need to throw support, strong or otherwise, to the casino issue AFTER the voters had already approved it?

Does that make any kind of sense whatsoever? The voters approve casinos, and THEN Archer goes around to churches to stump for it? Oh. Okay.

As I said -- Junior -- if you can't hit the curve ball, get on down to Toledo. Leave the serious talkin' to the grown folks.