Charles Pugh-car crash

[Motor City Sam]

I'm thinking Pugh's actions don't necessarily mean he did anything really wrong. Would it have been wiser for a person of his caliber to wait for police? Sure. But he's innocent until proven guilty.

I do find it interesting, however, that this happens in the wake of criticizing [[the temerity!) an influential pastor. Seems to me I recall that even when it had been shown beyond a reasonable doubt that a certain mayor was guilty of much more serious crimes, these were the same people who hemmed and hawed and talked about due process. Could it be that our great ecclesiastical leaders are a mite bit hypocritical? At least when it comes to who they believe is on God's side?

If I had my druthers, Pugh wouldn't be council president [[due to his name recognition), but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, and especially when this hoopla has the appearance of a deliberate, second-hand slam.

I'm not sure I understand your point here, Detroitnerd. How are the pastors involved in this incident with Pugh? Have any of them come out and criticized Pugh's conduct in this car crash? Are you saying that "they", whoever "they" are, were behind this "second hand slam"?

I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to see what point you're making.

[gnome]

folks may be interested in this site, he's a lawyer and discusses the offense of "Leaving A Scene of an Accident"

http://www.michigancriminaldefensela...nses-leav.html

Michigan Vehicle Code
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/[[S[[wcq...me=mcl-257-618

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE [[EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949

257.618 Accidents; damage to vehicles; stopping required; reporting to police agency or officer; penalty.
Sec. 618.
[[1) The driver of a vehicle who knows or who has reason to believe that he has been involved in an accident upon public or private property that is open to travel by the public shall immediately stop his or her vehicle at the scene of the accident and shall remain there until the requirements of section 619 are fulfilled or immediately report the accident to the nearest or most convenient police agency or officer to fulfill the requirements of section 619[[a) and [[b) if there is a reasonable and honest belief that remaining at the scene will result in further harm. The stop shall be made without obstructing traffic more than is necessary.

[[2) If an individual violates the requirements of subsection [[1) and the accident results in damage to a vehicle operated by or attended by any individual, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

[Buy American]

Thanks for posting the Michigan Vehicle Code. The simple fact is that Pugh should have picked up his City owned cell phone and called the police, told them who he was in a nice way, i.e.[[do you know who the f--k I am?), that his city owned vehicle was in an accident, and waited for police. They would have been there in a heartbeat because he is Council president.

How can DPD or MSP determine that this accident happened exactly as Pugh stated when it wasn't reported until two days later? Seems to me that by taking just his "word" for it will set a precident here in Michigan for everyone who decides to drive home after a vehicle accident.

Now, will Pugh get a ticket? Will he have a fine? Will he get points on his driver's license? Will he have a court date? Will he be sentenced? Will he serve time? If not, then all the citizens in this state have carte blanche to do as they wish in a vehicle only accident and not suffer any consequences.

[Detroitnerd]

I'm not sure I understand your point here, Detroitnerd. How are the pastors involved in this incident with Pugh? Have any of them come out and criticized Pugh's conduct in this car crash? Are you saying that "they", whoever "they" are, were behind this "second hand slam"?

I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to see what point you're making.

First of all, at the very least, I think there is a certain amount of hypocrisy involved if anybody is saying Charles Pugh is guilty until proven innocent, IF they said Kwame was innocent until proven guilty.

Second of all, I am not saying that Detroit's black pastors did a smear job on Push. But I do find it interesting that this crops up in the news so soon after this dust-up. Why? Because for years I have watched as political actors make one brave move to speak truth to power, only to suddenly have some scandal come to light shortly after. See it often enough and, given the low level of political operatives like Mongo or Riddle, and you start to wonder. But that's all that is: wondering.

Want to know somebody's address? Their phone number? Their criminal history up to the very moment? All it takes is having an auntie who works for the DPD. Or a cop willing to scan the criminal records DB in his car. All I'll say is that it's not as difficult as it would seem to dig up dirt on somebody.

And another thing: If you really want to have an effective hit piece on somebody, let them do the dirty work. Don't criticize, don't make any public statements to show you harbor a grudge. Instead, appear magnanimous. Don't do anything to link yourself with the smear. That way it works best.

Anyway, these jumpin'-Jesus pastors all seem to hate exotic dancers, but didn't mind the K-man when he was reading scripture in the pulpit and getting a BJ beneath it. Beyond a doubt, they're hypocrites.

[Buy American]

"Anyway, these jumpin'-Jesus pastors all seem to hate exotic dancers, but didn't mind the K-man when he was reading scripture in the pulpit and getting a BJ beneath it. Beyond a doubt, they're hypocrites. "

Truer words were never spoken.

[Downtown Lady]

Anyway, these jumpin'-Jesus pastors all seem to hate exotic dancers, but didn't mind the K-man when he was reading scripture in the pulpit and getting a BJ beneath it. Beyond a doubt, they're hypocrites.

But you're painting all pastors with an awfully broad brush. True enough, some are con men on the take, buddies and defenders of Kwame. But some are truly good Christian men that just want to serve God and their congregation. It's not fair to lump them all together. I don't know enough about Pastor Winans to know which category he falls into, but all indications are that he's a good man.

[Motor City Sam]

First of all, at the very least, I think there is a certain amount of hypocrisy involved if anybody is saying Charles Pugh is guilty until proven innocent, IF they said Kwame was innocent until proven guilty.

Second of all, I am not saying that Detroit's black pastors did a smear job on Push. But I do find it interesting that this crops up in the news so soon after this dust-up. Why? Because for years I have watched as political actors make one brave move to speak truth to power, only to suddenly have some scandal come to light shortly after. See it often enough and, given the low level of political operatives like Mongo or Riddle, and you start to wonder. But that's all that is: wondering.

Want to know somebody's address? Their phone number? Their criminal history up to the very moment? All it takes is having an auntie who works for the DPD. Or a cop willing to scan the criminal records DB in his car. All I'll say is that it's not as difficult as it would seem to dig up dirt on somebody.

And another thing: If you really want to have an effective hit piece on somebody, let them do the dirty work. Don't criticize, don't make any public statements to show you harbor a grudge. Instead, appear magnanimous. Don't do anything to link yourself with the smear. That way it works best.

Anyway, these jumpin'-Jesus pastors all seem to hate exotic dancers, but didn't mind the K-man when he was reading scripture in the pulpit and getting a BJ beneath it. Beyond a doubt, they're hypocrites.

Thanks for the response.

I agree that it's hypocritical for anyone to have said Kwame was innocent until proven guilty and then not use the same thought process with Pugh.

But you also seem to be at least implying that the preachers are guilty of a smear campaign on Pugh without any evidence of that at all. You mention that this is coming out after the dust up with Winans, but I think that's just a function of when Pugh wrecked his car.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but you seem to be a Pugh supporter or definitely anti Detroit preacher. I don't have a dog in this fight. I mostly agree with Pugh on the strip club issue and I agree that some [[not all) preachers in Detroit are hypocritcal. But the issue I'm responding to is Pugh wrecking his car and his subsequent actions. Trying to bring some possible pastoral conspiracy into it reminds me of Kwame trying to switch the focus to an ufair media when he got busted.

Lastly, your last paragraph sounds like comments such as "all those Detroiters support Kwame" or "all those people who live in the suburbs hate Deteroit". It's a very general statement that incorrectly paints with a very broad brush. I attend a church in Detroit, the pastor is Black, and he's spoken out for years against Kwame and recently against Pugh. He's not a high profile attention seeker like some of the others, but he's certainly not alone in his criticism of corruption in Detroit.

[Downtown Lady]

painting all pastors with an awfully broad brush

paints with a very broad brush

Same words two minutes apart -- we think alike, Sammy.

[Motor City Sam]

Same words two minutes apart -- we think alike, Sammy.

Must be that Jesuit education.

[Downtown Lady]

Must be that Jesuit education.

True that.



[sorry, private joke for MC Sam ... back to your regularly scheduled thread]

[Detroitnerd]

Thanks for the response.

I agree that it's hypocritical for anyone to have said Kwame was innocent until proven guilty and then not use the same thought process with Pugh.

But you also seem to be at least implying that the preachers are guilty of a smear campaign on Pugh without any evidence of that at all. You mention that this is coming out after the dust up with Winans, but I think that's just a function of when Pugh wrecked his car.

Maybe they're trying to smear him and maybe they're not. Surely one of those statements is true.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but you seem to be a Pugh supporter or definitely anti Detroit preacher. I don't have a dog in this fight. I mostly agree with Pugh on the strip club issue and I agree that some [[not all) preachers in Detroit are hypocritcal. But the issue I'm responding to is Pugh wrecking his car and his subsequent actions. Trying to bring some possible pastoral conspiracy into it reminds me of Kwame trying to switch the focus to an ufair media when he got busted.

Like I said, I wasn't pleased when Pugh got the top job on council. So I'd hardly call myself a Pugh supporter. Still waiting to see what he's got. But I did enjoy his tough questioning of Winans. Wish more people wouldn't be so obsequious around pastors. As for the "conspiracy" stuff, hey, I'm just a human being. I've been around. It's not unnatural for a person to wonder, is it?

Lastly, your last paragraph sounds like comments such as "all those Detroiters support Kwame" or "all those people who live in the suburbs hate Deteroit". It's a very general statement that incorrectly paints with a very broad brush. I attend a church in Detroit, the pastor is Black, and he's spoken out for years against Kwame and recently against Pugh. He's not a high profile attention seeker like some of the others, but he's certainly not alone in his criticism of corruption in Detroit.

The remark was aimed at jumpin'-Jesus pastors who are angry about exotic dancers but supported Kwame. It is not intended as a dig at any and all people who holler about Juh-hee-zus on Sunday mornings.

[Motor City Sam]

Maybe they're trying to smear him and maybe they're not. Surely one of those statements is true.

Like I said, I wasn't pleased when Pugh got the top job on council. So I'd hardly call myself a Pugh supporter. Still waiting to see what he's got. But I did enjoy his tough questioning of Winans. Wish more people wouldn't be so obsequious around pastors. As for the "conspiracy" stuff, hey, I'm just a human being. I've been around. It's not unnatural for a person to wonder, is it?

The remark was aimed at jumpin'-Jesus pastors who are angry about exotic dancers but supported Kwame. It is not intended as a dig at any and all people who holler about Juh-hee-zus on Sunday mornings.

Thanks for the clarification.

[daddeeo]

The condo situation was the first strike as far as I'm concerned.

[LodgeDodger]

I think Charles Pugh should get a used government car that the former president had used. That would be his punishment. No new car for him for awhile. And for God's sake do not let him use public money to buy hisself an SUV

I think Charles Pugh should use his own car. Was he on city business when the accident happened?

[Gistok]

Thanks for posting that Gnome. I wasn't aware of that part of the Michigan code. Perhaps they should add an addendum mentioning a specific time frame limit [[in Detroit... 24 hours perhaps)... where if police don't show up within a set time limit, you are allowed to leave the scene of the accident.

Some of you conspiracy theorists should go work for the National Enquirer.... your anti-Pugh bias is showing....

As far as worrying about getting hit in the rear on a Detroit freeway, I'll give Pugh the benefit of the doubt on that one.... just ask Fnemecek how much fun he had getting hit from behind on I-96 by a 100 MPH drunk driver and waking up from a coma a week later....

[kryptonite]

For now I think he is safe, but I wonder if he is smart enough to know that if convicted of a felony he would have to resign from city council.

"Smart enough"? - naaaaah.

[thecarl]

uhh, is this the same charles pugh who famously admitted that he caries a pistol? seriously. he should have called the police and waited at least 30 minutes, then he's in the clear. the cops would have showed up pretty quickly; obviously not what he wanted.

no impropriety, or APPEARANCE of impropriety - and yet another public official who refuses to believe they should be held to a higher standard.

[Just Amazed]

Detroitnerd love your analogy along with the image "Because for years I have watched as political actors make one brave move to speak truth to power, only to suddenly have some scandal come to light shortly after.
Really did not know about the political actors, and their one brave move ....................

[gnome]

I heard it was one of Winnan's big hatted church ladies who was behind the wheel of that vehicle that ran Mr. Pugh off the road. Look for hat pins in Charles' back after Monday's Strippers vs Church Ladies on the 13 Floor.

[jtf1972]

When asked why he didn't call the police immediately, he said: "In the middle of the night, at 10 p.m. at 75? No."
Pugh said he drove home in part because he didn't think it was safe to wait at the scene.

Way to lead there, pal...

[tetsua]

There should be a 3 month probation period where you aren't allowed to have any scandals for City Council.

[kryptonite]

according to this article in Detroit News, he is in violation of the city's policy on city-owned vehicles and could be disciplined, even dismissed.

http://detnews.com/article/20100220/...port-car-crash

His story is so full of holes, I did not really think it would amount to much earlier but seeing that he has not only violated state law but city ordinances as well, Pugh may be in deep 'fertilizer'. To me his story sounds like desperate back-pedaling, an attempt to cover up. The damage to the vehicle was substantial and I believe the sign on the I-75 exit was destroyed. For destroying that sign I believe the state holds him or his insurance company liable.

[Zacha341]

Ah, to dream to dream...

There should be a 3 month probation period where you aren't allowed to have any scandals for City Council.

[Danny]

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Maybe somebody wanted him dead due to that stipper club debacle.

[One Shot]

I want to know what cement wall he brushed up against with the drivers side. He claims to have hit a sign with the rt front [[which looks suspicious) but how do you explain the scrape on the drivers side and the blown out tires? There shouldn't be objects in the vicinity of the freeway or ramp to blow out tires. Where is the mirror that was knocked off? Take me to the scene and let me see the pieces that broke off. Another jackoff in the city council.