Rev. Marvin Winans is mad at Charles Pugh

[R8RBOB]

The people who live in the neighborhood have to fight for their daughters' safety constantly. Young women can't walk without being accosted on 8 mile and have not been able to so for more the last 30 years.

I think you are confusing the objective here. It is not that the good preacher is trying to close the businesses down. It is just that he is trying to instill some morality behind closed doors. Your point would be better understood if Winans and his followers were picketing outside these establishments calling for their closure. He is not doing that. He want peep show environments. The issue about safety was not brought up because it is smoke and mirrors.

[DetBill]

Good for Pugh. I wasn't really a fan of his but was glad he called Winans out on this. Winans, like the club owners, made the concious decision to move to Bloomfield. Its entirely his own business ofcourse but pointing a arrow at the owners was really stupid. Pugh caught it and was sharp with the reply. For the most part those businesses are actually pretty well kept, pay taxes and well, lets face it, the areas otherwise would be nothing but total crack dens. I agree with what Cockrel had said about not regulating morality. Winans, like so many of the prior years city connections, is generally used to getting his way. Its good to see we have council members that stand up to these people. I'm actually pleasantly suprised..

[Zacha341]

Hmm, they don't all clean up their lots or adjoining sidewalks and walkways. That Dejavu joint up on Woodward and 6 mile is mile high with weeds and trash around the whole building, they do not shovel either [[perhaps a lawsuit will motivate them). It could be argued that the parking lots is jacked due to the strip having other business but the side of the building is not maintained at all...

That I know of churches are tax exempt, as well as church property such as schools. Charles Pugh had a good point, how many of these highly-paid religious bags of hot air actually live in Detroit?

I guess by the opponents' logic an abandoned dark business without tits and ass are preferable to lit, guarded establishments that clean up their parking lots and EMPLOY people.

Don't forget, the idiot preachers vehemently opposed gambling casinos in Detroit, partly claiming they would bring crime. God forbid crime should come to Detroit.

[sumas]

Most of the "hookers" I see on 8 mile are police decoys. Can someone please explain the purpose of decoys. I would much rather police would detour crime not encourage it.

[bailey]

Most of the "hookers" I see on 8 mile are police decoys. Can someone please explain the purpose of decoys. I would much rather police would detour crime not encourage it.

...and if you're going to run a decoy operation, why are there signs designating the area as "decoy area"? i'm sure there must be an entrapment lawsuit that dictated that, but c'mon, sort of pointless now isn't it?

[Zacha341]

I am hearing a great deal of angst and pathos re. "preachers" here... Got that. I and while I am not an attendee of a mega-church I am not anti-clerical, and I think the jury is still out on the full fall-out of casinos in Detroit. While they did not bring crime 100%, their presence has had an impact financially, along with the mortgage folly and lack of jobs, drugs, educational deficits etc... it all adds up, or should I say subtracts from.....

That I know of churches are tax exempt, as well as church property such as schools. Charles Pugh had a good point, how many of these highly-paid religious bags of hot air actually live in Detroit?

I guess by the opponents' logic an abandoned dark business without tits and ass are preferable to lit, guarded establishments that clean up their parking lots and EMPLOY people.

Don't forget, the idiot preachers vehemently opposed gambling casinos in Detroit, partly claiming they would bring crime. God forbid crime should come to Detroit.

[Toolbox]

Hmm, they don't all clean up their lots or adjoining sidewalks and walkways. That Dejavu joint up on Woodward and 6 mile is mile high with weeds and trash around the whole building, they do not shovel either [[perhaps a lawsuit will motivate them). It could be argued that the parking lots is jacked due to the strip having other business but the side of the building is not maintained at all...

You might want to look at a map.


You do know that joint is in Highland Park and not Detroit right?

[Baselinepunk]

Pastor Winans is nothing more than a parachute preacher who soaks the flock for what its worth. These morality "charges" function as red meat to flock and are used as a means to fat the collection plate. Perhaps Pastor Winans should come out of his palace and move into a residence next to his "church"?

[sumas]

Not sure what you are trying to say Bailey. Just don't get entrapment. Would much rather see better police response and neighborhood patrols.

Entrapment cases are rife with lawsuits. Had a friend who was gay. Police lied through their teeth. I put together his defense for his attorney from ACLU. He won a sizable settlement. Since I live in the city I would much rather see funds being spent to improve the city not drain its resources.

Personally am not anti church at all. Today is Ash Wednesday and will shortly be heading to church for the service. I do strongly believe in separation of church and state. Tell the good Rev. let well enough alone.

[gnome]

Shouldn't Herr Winans spend some of his time completeing his "Perfecting Church" at 7 and Woodward? That place has been sitting, half-built, for 4 or 5 years becoming a collection point for all manner of blight.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7+and+...318.29,,0,3.31




Pugh... what was he thinking when he compared strip clubs to the Civil Rights struggle?

Detroit --City Council President Charles Pugh today likened passing ordinances to shut down strip clubs to laws that segregated blacks during an interview on a religious radio station.
Speaking to WQLV-AM 1500 host Paul Edwards hours after a contentious debate about a crackdown on Detroit's 33 clubs, Pugh said the city can't pass regulations that "unduly target" strip clubs and twice referred to the civil-rights struggle to make his point.
"You're making a judgment about what's being sold. Some people made a judgment against African-Americans having the audacity of walking in the front door," Pugh said. "I'm talking about discrimination. I'm talking about targeting laws against law-abiding businesses."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100216/...#ixzz0fo0wbDjp

[Zacha341]

Yeah, I know that, [[I live in Detroit) but that unkempt strip joint is "within" Detroit boundaries [[and on a major street leading to and thru Detroit) as appose to it being located in the UP -- So I'm referencing it...

You might want to look at a map.

You do know that joint is in Highland Park and not Detroit right?

[Zacha341]

The time line on that church being built is getting long! And yes, everything is compared to the Civil Rights movement these days.......

Shouldn't Herr Winans spend some of his time completeing his "Perfecting Church" at 7 and Woodward? That place has been sitting, half-built, for 4 or 5 years becoming a collection point for all manner of blight.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7+and+...318.29,,0,3.31

Pugh... what was he thinking when he compared strip clubs to the Civil Rights struggle?

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100216/...#ixzz0fo0wbDjp

[jcole]

Shouldn't Herr Winans spend some of his time completeing his "Perfecting Church" at 7 and Woodward? That place has been sitting, half-built, for 4 or 5 years becoming a collection point for all manner of blight.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7+and+...318.29,,0,3.31




Pugh... what was he thinking when he compared strip clubs to the Civil Rights struggle?

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100216/...#ixzz0fo0wbDjp

Actually, I've seen activity on the building the last couple times I've driven by, most recently Monday afternoon. I was really surprised.

[R8RBOB]

Shouldn't Herr Winans spend some of his time completeing his "Perfecting Church" at 7 and Woodward? That place has been sitting, half-built, for 4 or 5 years becoming a collection point for all manner of blight.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7+and+...318.29,,0,3.31

I know I don't get out much...LOL. I remember when I returned to Detroit and they were knocking down those houses in that neighborhood and I actually thought they were going to build new homes. Now I know. Another mega-church!!!

[East Detroit]

Glad Pugh gave the smack down to Winan's suburbs vs Detroit codespeak.

[Zacha341]

Too often the idea of building larger churches is met with problems financially and zoning. Something is slowing down the process of that church being built..... I prefer the smaller sized churches congregations.

Actually, I've seen activity on the building the last couple times I've driven by, most recently Monday afternoon. I was really surprised.

[kraig]

Too often the idea of building larger churches is met with problems financially and zoning. Something is slowing down the process of that church being built..... I prefer the smaller sized churches congregations.

Maybe his shakedown of the strip clubs hasn't panned out the way he thought it would.

[Zacha341]

I'm not engaged or motivated to defend either.

Maybe his shakedown of the strip clubs hasn't panned out the way he thought it would.

[kryptonite]

And just how do the many churches in Detroit contribute to the improvement of the city? Complaining about the presence of strip clubs seems idiotic to me when you can see so many badly maintained churches. Some are well maintained and a benefit to their neighborhood but at least half the churches look like crap and only contribute to urban blight. I would take a clean looking strip club anyday to a rundown storefront church or badly maintained old church building with an equally poorly maintained property.

[sumas]

Not really sure why I am defending strip clubs. Have only been in three in my lifetime. However they have the right to exist and a duty to be a good citizen in their business district.

Haven't seen unkempt churches either unless they are vacant.

Don't care for mega churches though. I prefer my pastor to really know my name. Ministers should stay in the pulpit with their ideas of sin. Preach to the converted.

I don't go to those places but my husband likes to view a porn mag now and then and it does not bother me either. People just like a little fantasy now and then. Ease up people.

[Toolbox]

Yeah, I know that, [[I live in Detroit) but that unkempt strip joint is "within" Detroit boundaries [[and on a major street leading to and thru Detroit) as appose to it being located in the UP -- So I'm referencing it...

Unless I fucked up my civics lessons, Highland Park is within the boundries of The city of Highland Park and under the code enforcenment policies of The City of Highland park . My HPFD and DPW relatives paychecks sure as hell did not say City of Detroit.

[Zacha341]

OK, I and we get that... weeee! Shall I be spared from the firing squad!? You've missed the broader point!

I originally brought it up to point out that ALL of these places are NOT spotless clean on the outside, not argue civics relative to who pays who, or who enforces or surrounds what... I knew the local when I mentioned it.

Though it is interesting that this one [[in Highland Park a city in close "proximity" to Detroit) is one of the most unkempt located on "Woodward", as appose to the ones on 8 mile... which tend to be a bit outwardly neater.....

Unless I fucked up my civics lessons, Highland Park is within the boundries of The city of Highland Park and under the code enforcenment policies of The City of Highland park . My HPFD and DPW relatives paychecks sure as hell did not say City of Detroit.

[Gistok]

These councilpersons could be on the Take. Strip club owners and Liquor Store owners could throw a couple of bones at these despictable council persons who bends down and pick it up. Charles Pugh could be one of them. When a candidate runs for office research should be done on him/her. Find out what major entity is financing their campaign. You will know who has the remote control controlling the decision the robot councilperson or Mayor will make.

Stasu, you certainly are being quite presumptuous about Pugh based solely on him asking Winans if he lived in Detroit.

But if you want to find out where the money trail the "robot councilpersons or Mayor" got much of their money and support from in the past.... from the churches!

So much for separation of church and state eh??

[Zacha341]

I'd prefer neither [[run down church or strip joint), but it is what it is. Detroit is so desperate for revenue I suppose it can be argued that these places must exist... it was the same argument for casinos. And when all is said and done there are decent, well meaning people on both sides of the argument....

And just how do the many churches in Detroit contribute to the improvement of the city? Complaining about the presence of strip clubs seems idiotic to me when you can see so many badly maintained churches. Some are well maintained and a benefit to their neighborhood but at least half the churches look like crap and only contribute to urban blight. I would take a clean looking strip club anyday to a rundown storefront church or badly maintained old church building with an equally poorly maintained property.

[Detroitej72]

Maybe his shakedown of the strip clubs hasn't panned out the way he thought it would.

I thought I heard there was some complications with the financing, maybe your onto something!