Will Sam Riddle walk?

[ct_alum]

. "There were other jurors who came in there with their minds made up that he was guilty before they deliberated. [/quote]

And you know this how? Because they were white? GTF outta here!

I am also amazed by the number of people who judge Mr. Riddle's guilt/innocence based on the punishment [[or lack thereof ) of other participants in this sad saga, who, btw, pled guilty. That's how it works; if you save everybody time and money by copping a plea, you usually get a lighter sentence.

Based on this, I'm sure that some will say Mr. Riddle should be acquitted after Monica Conyers gets probation [[Which she will).

Another thought - If, in fact the Feiger theory that Mr. Riddle is just a b.s. artist who couldn't deliver anything is true, isn't that obtaining money under false pretenses?

[Mkap]

There were other jurors who came in there with their minds made up that he was guilty before they deliberated. So either way you look at it the mistrial was correct.

Is there not a point in a trial where you, as a juror, come to a conclusion, even if in your own mind? I would have a tendency to think it's usually before diliberations.

I'm not as sure as you that the mistrial was correct. Had there been even one more dissenting juror, it may have been more believable. Only the holdout can answer for the decision that was made. The other eleven seem to know why, but without her giving a full explanation, the rest of us will never know. Like I said: 'Moral conviction comes from within'. We all justify it differently.

[bartock]

. "There were other jurors who came in there with their minds made up that he was guilty before they deliberated.

And you know this how? Because they were white? GTF outta here!

I am also amazed by the number of people who judge Mr. Riddle's guilt/innocence based on the punishment [[or lack thereof ) of other participants in this sad saga, who, btw, pled guilty. That's how it works; if you save everybody time and money by copping a plea, you usually get a lighter sentence.

Based on this, I'm sure that some will say Mr. Riddle should be acquitted after Monica Conyers gets probation [[Which she will).

Another thought - If, in fact the Feiger theory that Mr. Riddle is just a b.s. artist who couldn't deliver anything is true, isn't that obtaining money under false pretenses?[/quote]



I'm not so sure to your last question, but in any event, he isn't charged with it. Also, a defense to it would be that Riddle thinks he has the ability to influence. I believe for false pretenses you need to have one party knowingly deceiving another. Sort of like crooks can't con crooks. If anything, he committed a tort, but good luck to whoever tries to sue him in civil court for a couple of grand.

[swingline]

All we know is what was in the press, according to those reports the holdout juror walked into the deliberation with her mind made up, with a chip on her shoulder. Let's say that was true, that she was mad as a wet cat from the get-go. Where did that anger come from?

Maybe she came in there with the whole Shrine, Malik Shabazz mindest. That she lied during voir dire about having her mind made up. We may never know.

But maybe she spent the last few weeks hearing smack from her fellow jurors. About their drives into the city, about how crappy Detroit looks, how many buildings are falling down, how Coleman had ruined the city, etc. Maybe all the smack talk happened during lunch, during smoke breaks, during those times when the jurors were left to their own devices.

Maybe she heard from the other jurors how they used to live in Detroit and how they were chased out by crime and how their old neighborhoods became ghettos. How nice it was in the olden days before '67. On and on for weeks at a time.

Then comes deliberations and the holdout is facing all those people who have running down the City and by inference all black folk. How would you react if you'd be faced with a phlanx of "others"?

This post from Gnome is spot on. My jury duty experiences have all included observing similar attitudes from the white folks unhappy about being "dragged downtown" and the attendant concern over the absolute certainty that they are going to get mugged walking to their car at the end of the day. Further evidence? Read this Michigan Citizen report: http://www.michigancitizen.com/defau...itizen&he=.com . The article reported this about the jury foreman, a restaurant manager from Clinton Township:

• LeFevre, who manages a fast food restaurant, complained on his Facebook page the first day of the trial, “downtown Detroit at 7 a.m. for jury duty. would rather be at work then [[sic) down here in this s*** hole.â€� He later alleged that the court staff made him “sit all day looking at the wallâ€� and announced that he has joined a group called Millions Against Barack Obama.

Now, does any of this justify a juror's refusal to deliberate or to ignore evidence? [[It's not at all clear that she did this.) No, not at all. But it probably explains a lot though.

[Mkap]

The article reported this about the jury foreman, a restaurant manager from Clinton Township:

• LeFevre, who manages a fast food restaurant, complained on his Facebook page the first day of the trial, “downtown Detroit at 7 a.m. for jury duty. would rather be at work then [[sic) down here in this 1) s*** hole.â€� He later alleged that the court staff made him 2) “sit all day looking at the wallâ€� and announced that he has 3) joined a group called Millions Against Barack Obama.

Now, does any of this justify a juror's refusal to deliberate or to ignore evidence? [[It's not at all clear that she did this.) No, not at all. But it probably 4) explains a lot though.

1) It is.
2) That's what you get paid for. If you'v been there, you've done it.
3) Like millions were not against, GW Bush, B Clinton, GH Bush, R Reagan, J Carter... ? How about R Nixon? I know a lot of Dems and Repubs who have grown disgruntled with B Obama.
4) Explains only what you want to see. For my first fifty years I believed Pluto was a planet. I found out I was wrong.

Most news print is 'slanted' in one direction or other. You have to take all media with a grain of salt. They are in it to sensationalize and sell, at times, snakeoil.

I am not saying the girl had a mind set. I'm only saying I am not convinced she didn't. My jury is still out on 'all' involved. Let's just wait till the next trial.