Detroit to Chicago corridor part of Obama's high speed rail proposal

[professorscott]

The Detroit-Ann Arbor commuter rail will only run a few times a day. It won't compare with what Chicago has. That's if it ever happens at all; so far as I can tell SEMCOG has not yet been able to successfully negotiate with CN for use of the track.

SEMCOG wanted to run the train with some decent frequency, but the freight rr's took that off the table very quickly. From a SEMCOG update last December:

" SEMCOG and MDOT continue to wait for a response from the Canadian National [[CN) Railroad indicating that they have found capacity on their system to allow for four commuter round trips a day if improvements are made at West Detroit Junction." [[emphasis added)

So that's the MOST we can hope for: four commuter round trips a day, in addition to the three current Chicago trips. Metra it ain't.

[detmsp]

Let's keep a few things in mind, here:

It has taken France and Japan over 30 years to get their high-speed rail systems to where they are today. We can't just up and build new trackage for a dedicated high-speed passenger rail system. Improvements are likely to be incremental as money is available, and the ridership market develops.

I expect initial improvements to include upgrades of interlockings, tie replacement, and construction of additional sidings. Some construction of additional track would not be unexpected. This kind of work is most likely, because they are the projects that states [[like Virginia) have been trying to complete in the past few years.

Over time, one could expect to see new passenger cars and locomotives, full double [[and some triple?) tracking, station capacity enhancements, and electification. All of those are a long ways off.

well i'm not positive about this [[so correct me if i'm wrong) but i don't think existing railroads can be improved to handle a REAL high speed train. That would mean that this isn't some incremental step towards real high speed rail... it means we're building something we will quickly want to completely replace because it's not fast enough

[Novine]

As I said above:

"True high-speed rail would require a dedicated, grade-separated right-of-way. That's not going to happen any time soon."

For those not familiar with the concept, it would mean creating an entirely new train corridor where the tracks don't have road crossings or even crossings with other rail lines and generally it's elevated to keep people, animals, etc. out of the way of trains moving at 200+ MPH. As Russix stated, we don't need bullet train speeds to create a rail alternative that's better than highway and bus travel. If Amtrak can crank their trains up to 110 MPH between the stations, we can get trains to Chicago in much less time than they currently take.

[Russix]

four commuter round trips a day

Hmm, this doesn't seem like a good return on investment. In theory you have 3 round trip Amtrak trains, then add 4 commuter trains. So 7 round trips means that during an 18 hour time frame the station service interval would be about 2.5 hours. For less than this operating expense, adding 1 freeway bus to both The Ride & SMART would shorten the interval down to an hour. You could catch it at the The Ride's bus station, transfer to SMART at Metro airport, and arrive downtown Detroit within an hour time span. 2 buses, 2 drivers, 18 roundtrips between Detroit, DTW and Ann Arbor. I know this loses the appeal of being able to go station to station between Ann Arbor and Detroit, but this would provide a vital link between two cities and greatly improve transit for visitors/travelers.

A 110 MPH train between downtown Detroit and downtown Chicago would be faster than an airplane.

[professorscott]

It wouldn't be seven trips equally spaced over 18 hours. The three existing trips are what they are, forget about those for the moment. The other four trips would be most likely concentrated into the rush hours, so perhaps two round trips in the a.m. and two in the p.m. I haven't seen any attempt at a schedule, though, and I don't know if there even is one. My main point is, this doesn't seem to be moving forward at all, so far as I can tell.

[Novine]

1 Bus does not equal one commuter train.

[Prodigal_Son]

Is there any indication that the high speed train station would be in Detroit city proper, as opposed to one of the suburbs? It seems like Royal Oak or Romulus might have a better chance to "win" hub status than Detroit.

If built, the station ought to be in Detroit -- however troubled the city is, it is still more of a "destination" than any of the suburbs.

[Russix]

1 Bus does not equal one commuter train.

Definitely not in cost.

[professorscott]

The high speed train is more of a concept than a plan. I don't think any work at all has been done to the level of detail of determining where a station would go. My conjecture would be that it would go where the current Detroit Amshack is, but that's not based on any inside knowledge.

[jsmyers]

The state is planning on putting a station across the tracks from where the existing station is.

The existing alignment is comparable to the northeast corridor between New Haven and Boston. If the same type of upgrades [[electrification and grade separation) that were done there in the late 90s were done in Michigan, the speeds would be similar. But the current plan to upgrade from top speeds of 79 mph to 110 mph makes a huge dent in the trip time. The additional gain of going to 150 mph isn't as great.

The biggest challenge to HSR in Michigan? Fixing the bottle neck around Gary, IN. Hopefully that is started ASAP, cause it will take a little while. Until it is finished, we are stuck with only a couple of trains a day all the way to Chicago.

I agree that MCS and a connection to VIA rail would be huge for Detroit in the long run.

[kathy2trips]

I would love to go home to Detroit more often, but from Texas, my options are driving and flying. If the government could get it's act together and get Amtrack were it was, you'd have a lot more ex-pats like me coming home more often.

[heedus]

From the story in the Detroit News about $2 billion in relief coming to Michigan:

"High speed rail is coming to Michigan because of Gov. Granholm. There's no doubt about it," said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

[French777]

Thanks Jenny!!

[Hypestyles]

there needs to be lots more new rail lines, instead of constantly having to negotiate with the private freight companies..

[milesdriven]

110 mph is much faster than what can be done on I-94. .

I disagree.

[professorscott]

Hypestyles, believe me: you write the check, we'll build the rail lines.

[Novine]

I read somewhere that in Lansing, Senate Republicans voted to cut back rail funding for Amtrak.

[softailrider]

110 mph. hardly high speed by european/asian standards.

Sounds pretty damm fast to me. Of course, I haven't been on a train in about 30 years. Really have no desire to take a train ride either.