Michigan lawmakers introduce plan to hike state gas tax.

[Hermod]

Granted, but its not the whole story.

Assuming $2.50 a gallon plus a $0.19 tax switching to a $0.27 tax, a new gas tax that drives consumption down 3% would be break even for the average driver while increasing gas tax revenue by 42%.

Gas consumption would have to go down 30% before the tax creates no revenue gain and if that happened, the average driver would spend 28% less on gas and gas taxes.

Creating cleaner air while saving gas money. Sounds great to me. Sounds even better when its been shown that cleaner air reduces health care costs.

Then why are they talking switching to a GPS reporting system for miles driven to tax cars? They are saying that if everyone goes to high mileage or electric cars, they won't have enough tax money for the roads.

[Fury13]

When the smoking ban reduces sales tax revenues from purchases at bars and restaurants, get ready to pay tax on pop and candy, like OH and IL.

That statement is illogical. The smoking ban will likely increase sales tax revenues from bars and restaurants. Eighty percent of the population is non-smoking, and that vast majority will be more inclined to patronize bars and restaurants after the ban takes effect.

[mjs]

Michigan already has some of the highest fuel prices in the nation. There should be no increase in the gas tax until the state can get petroleum refinery/transportation costs under control.

Done. According to gasbuddy.com we're 12 cents a gallon below the national average.
So, can we consider you in favor of the tax now?

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_pr...rt.aspx?time=3

[mjs]

Then why are they talking switching to a GPS reporting system for miles driven to tax cars? They are saying that if everyone goes to high mileage or electric cars, they won't have enough tax money for the roads.

They won't at $0.19 a gallon. With the reduced fuel consumption the state has seen, $0.19 isn't enough now. Hence the proposed tax.

Electric cars are currently taxed at whatever the electric tax comes out to. Obviously a great deal less. If future commuters all drive electric cars, but goods are still transported by diesel, perhaps transporters will finally pay their fair a share of the roads. I bet Michigan's insane truck weight limits will go down then.

I don't know who is talking about intrusive GPS seeing how a mileage tax could simply be assessed when the driver goes to renew the plates. My guess is that "they" are either in the oil and gas industry or receive alot of money from their lobbyists.

[Long Lake]

Done. According to gasbuddy.com we're 12 cents a gallon below the national average.
So, can we consider you in favor of the tax now?

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_pr...rt.aspx?time=3

Your link doesn't even respond to my point.

The link just provides a sample size of point-in-time prices in various cities.

I am talking about average statewide prices over time. Michigan has been, and continues to be, one of the more expensive places to buy gas.

And you should re-read my statement. I said that an increase in gas tax shouldn't be considered until costs are under control. I never claimed that a decrease in overall costs necessitates an increase in the gas tax.

[Long Lake]

The most "progressive" state income tax is California. How is that working right now?

Overall, it's working quite well. You do know that California is one of the richer and more successful states in the nation, and has absolutely no problem with revenues, right?

The main problem in CA is spending, especially pensions and other obligations, which are absolutely out-of-control. This has nothing do with with whether or not a progressive tax is in effect.

The other problem in CA is Proposition 13, which is an amazingly regressive regulation [[a $2 million house in Beverly Hills, CA can pay less in property taxes than a $200,000 house in Troy, MI), but that's another story.

[Detroit Stylin]

Overall, it's working quite well. You do know that California is one of the richer and more successful states in the nation, and has absolutely no problem with revenues, right?

The main problem in CA is spending, especially pensions and other obligations, which are absolutely out-of-control. This has nothing do with with whether or not a progressive tax is in effect.

The other problem in CA is Proposition 13, which is an amazingly regressive regulation [[a $2 million house in Beverly Hills, CA can pay less in property taxes than a $200,000 house in Troy, MI), but that's another story.

Ummmm The state is bankrupt......

[Hermod]

Overall, it's working quite well. You do know that California is one of the richer and more successful states in the nation, and has absolutely no problem with revenues, right?

The main problem in CA is spending, especially pensions and other obligations, which are absolutely out-of-control. This has nothing do with with whether or not a progressive tax is in effect.

The other problem in CA is Proposition 13, which is an amazingly regressive regulation [[a $2 million house in Beverly Hills, CA can pay less in property taxes than a $200,000 house in Troy, MI), but that's another story.

And businesses and retirees are fleeing in droves..........

[mjs]

Your link doesn't even respond to my point.

The link just provides a sample size of point-in-time prices in various cities.

I am talking about average statewide prices over time. Michigan has been, and continues to be, one of the more expensive places to buy gas.

Then you didn't click on my link because you didn't want the facts to get in the way of your opinion. My link allows anyone to create a graph that compares gas prices in a very large number of cities, states, and even Canada going back as far as six years. My link shows that we are generally very close to or well below the national average.

Its not true 100% of the time, but look and you'll see that practically every city and state outside of Texas is above the average from time to time. I'm sure their local news also limits the comparison to those times as well.

And you should re-read my statement. I said that an increase in gas tax shouldn't be considered until costs are under control. I never claimed that a decrease in overall costs necessitates an increase in the gas tax.

So, I showed that they should be considered because they're under control. I was bringing to light your subtle assumption that gas prices are the only factor in the conversation on whether gas taxes, hence road spending, should go up.

And before you go bragging on how much better California is than Michigan because of Michigan's "terrible" gas prices and tax system, use my link to run the six year gas comparison on Michigan versus California. They're currently 40 cents a gallon higher. Also remember which state had to force IOU's on their contractors last year. IOU's that the banks refused to honor.

[DetroitPlanner]

Then why are they talking switching to a GPS reporting system for miles driven to tax cars? They are saying that if everyone goes to high mileage or electric cars, they won't have enough tax money for the roads.

A GPS system, while being a more 'fair' way of doing things is still frought with problems. People do not want big brother watching them. Dollars to donuts people will figure out how to operate their vehicles without these things tracking them, older vehicles will get a free ride, and you pay the same amount regardless if you drive a Fusion Hybrid or an H2 the same distance. If one wants to use the carrot and the stick to get more Fusion Hybrids on the road and fewer H2's; GPS won't work unless you start adding in a weight factor, which complicates an already complicated process.

This would require quite a bit of legislative work to pass, and there would need to be some sort of reciprocal agreements between the states and the also an agreement between the feds and the states on how this system would work. It could end up being even more beurcratic than what we have now.

[Sstashmoo]

Higher taxes on everything in the future is just a fact we are all going to have to live with. We've been borrowing and spending like drunken sailors. The Fed is broke, the states are broke, leaving our doors open, and trying to accommodate anyone who feels like showing up, we reward people who refuse to work with an income, Millions an hour for a war based on lies that nobody wanted, the money has to come from somewhere. And now our new Pres keeps trying to push through free programs like healthcare, free money for all sorts of BS, nothing is free. Get ready to pay up.