Michigan cuts 243 road projects.

[DanFromDetroit]

Perhaps you missed it, but we HAVE been bulldozing whole areas. Unfortunately, unlike Europe, they're the areas with the densest street network, where we used to have our light rail.

To say that we can't do it because it was never done and try "more of the same" sounds more foolish to me.

Citation needed

[Detroitnerd]

Citation needed

Something wrong with your eyes?

[Hermod]

Perhaps you missed it, but we HAVE been bulldozing whole areas. Unfortunately, unlike Europe, they're the areas with the densest street network, where we used to have our light rail.

To say that we can't do it because it was never done and try "more of the same" sounds more foolish to me.

Europe had a bit of urban bulldozing courtesy of the US 8th Air Force and the RAF Bomber Command.

[Detroitnerd]

Europe had a bit of urban bulldozing courtesy of the US 8th Air Force and the RAF Bomber Command.

What's next? Holocaust jokes?

[Hermod]

What's next? Holocaust jokes?

No, but the point is that European cities got to start pretty much with a "clean slate" around 1950. Most of the old European cities that "just grew" were pretty much flattened and could be rebuilt without a lot of displacement of current businesses and population.

[Detroitnerd]

No, but the point is that European cities got to start pretty much with a "clean slate" around 1950. Most of the old European cities that "just grew" were pretty much flattened and could be rebuilt without a lot of displacement of current businesses and population.

OK. Just for the record, I am not going to put you in charge of urban renewal here.

[EL Jimbo]

OK. Just for the record, I am not going to put you in charge of urban renewal here.

The B-52 renewal plan?

[Bearinabox]

No, but the point is that European cities got to start pretty much with a "clean slate" around 1950. Most of the old European cities that "just grew" were pretty much flattened and could be rebuilt without a lot of displacement of current businesses and population.

Most of the European cities I'm familiar with rebuilt their historic centers to look much as they did pre-bombing, including the painstaking reconstruction of destroyed landmarks to the point that you would never know they were bombed. Some of the architecture is modern, but the street layouts are mostly prewar. There was no push to rebuild American-style, with expressways cutting through the core and ample free parking everywhere. These cores are invariably traffic nightmares at rush hour, and if people don't like it they can take the train into town.

Then there are cities like Prague and Paris that came out of the war mostly unscathed, and they're huge tourist destinations because intact old cities are, well, nice. Nobody ever visits Dresden.

[DanFromDetroit]

Most of the European cities I'm familiar with rebuilt their historic centers to look much as they did pre-bombing, including the painstaking reconstruction of destroyed landmarks to the point that you would never know they were bombed. Some of the architecture is modern, but the street layouts are mostly prewar. There was no push to rebuild American-style, with expressways cutting through the core and ample free parking everywhere. These cores are invariably traffic nightmares at rush hour, and if people don't like it they can take the train into town.

Then there are cities like Prague and Paris that came out of the war mostly unscathed, and they're huge tourist destinations because intact old cities are, well, nice. Nobody ever visits Dresden.

Well said - All was I was trying to say originally is that we don't live in a metro area that has been designed for, or necessitates effective mass transit in the form or a rail system. The population density here simply doesn't allow for effective light rail commutes. We live in a region designed for automotive transportation on public roads [[even public buses) to get from point A to point B. Sure I-94 and 75 are parking lots at rush hour but compare that to trying to leave London on the M or A roads on a weekday. You have to pay a toll just to drive into the city center which significantly cuts down on traffic and makes the poorly laid out road system driveable [[barely). Because so many people live in a tightly packed region it makes a tube system preferable to a car. Unless we radically redesign how our region is laid out we won't gain much benefit from a rail system. Anyone have a few trillion handy to relocate a city or five?

/trying to decide where else to take a vacation this summer now that you torpedoed my plans for Dresden.