News understates Matty's political gifts by $187,000

[kraig]

Gregg Ward, VP at the Detroit Windsor Truck Ferry, Inc. and an ardent Moroun monitor, reminds those on his e-mail list that the political $ flow is vastly larger than reported by The News and my post when federal campaigns are counted.

He dusted off a comprehensive Metro Times report last June by Sandra Svoboda.And that, Kraig, is why this matters.

You may want to refer back to my still unanswered question. Which is; What benefit has been derived from the donations?

Your subsequent posts still have not answered that question. The Metro Times report isn't an accurate assessment as it is a twenty year total on not only the Morouns, but all of the employees of all their companies. It even went so far as to state a $75.00 donation made by an employee to a candidate. There are probably plenty of companies whose employees have donated about $1,100,000.00 to various campaigns and candidates over a 20 year period.

As Far as Rich Robinson's quote, there's no reference to any factual material that would make it more than just his opinion. I'm not saying there isn't any, I'm just saying that it wasn't there in the article.

I'm not saying that Matty is donating the money simply because he believes in a candidates' vision. However, there is a difference between evidence and proof. There's plenty of implied evidence that he's attempting to influence decisions. But, there's no actual proof. Does it matter? Yes. But, that wasn't my question now, was it? If a ten to twenty year history is being done on the man and his family. Is it too much to ask for a little proof if the only reason the writer is writing the story appears to be to get the reader to reach the conclusion that Matty is doing something wrong?

[RealityCheck]

. .. refer back to my still unanswered question: What benefit has been derived from the donations?

Your subsequent posts still have not answered that question. . . . there is a difference between evidence and proof. There's plenty of implied evidence that he's attempting to influence decisions. But, there's no actual proof.

Last pass at this, Kraig, as it's clearly a situation where I agree we disagree.

My intent was to lay out facts, not "proof" of anything or "the conclusion that Matty is doing something wrong." This isn't a gotcha game.

I can't speak for Sandra Svoboda or Rich Robinson, and linked to her article simply to show [[1) this topic isn't new and [[2) counting federal campaigns pushes us into seven figures.

I never suggested these and other above-board political donations buy anything more than enhanced access to policymakers.

Campaign checks from Matty, Friends and Family are legal, customary, even an admirable part of democracy to some . . . One can reasonably say he'd be foolish not to grease the path of access to decision-makers . . .

Recipients surely would insist their actions have absolutely no relation whatsoever to campaign contributions. And in fairness, that may well be true in at least some instances . . . maybe most, for all we know.

Respectfully, Kraig, I feel your request for "proof" of "what benefit has been derived from the donations" does not fit this discussion. It seems like a varsity debater's effort to wedge an opponent into a corner of a different position than he or she has taken. [[Yes, a gotcha game.)

Listing Moroun donations, in The News and here, is not about building an airtight, courtroom-worthy bribery, collusion or corruption case. It's about shining light on how a wealthy businessperson with interest in pending government decisions participates in the elective process.

That transparency may be beneficial to democracy.

Our discussion, on the other hand . . .

[kraig]

Last pass at this, Kraig, as it's clearly a situation where I agree we disagree.

My intent was to lay out facts, not "proof" of anything or "the conclusion that Matty is doing something wrong." This isn't a gotcha game.

I can't speak for Sandra Svoboda or Rich Robinson, and linked to her article simply to show [[1) this topic isn't new and [[2) counting federal campaigns pushes us into seven figures.

I never suggested these and other above-board political donations buy anything more than enhanced access to policymakers.Respectfully, Kraig, I feel your request for "proof" of "what benefit has been derived from the donations" does not fit this discussion. It seems like a varsity debater's effort to wedge an opponent into a corner of a different position than he or she has taken. [[Yes, a gotcha game.)

Listing Moroun donations, in The News and here, is not about building an airtight, courtroom-worthy bribery, collusion or corruption case. It's about shining light on how a wealthy businessperson with interest in pending government decisions participates in the elective process.

That transparency may be beneficial to democracy.

Our discussion, on the other hand . . .

I get it. It's just a slam piece that everyone is supposed to agree to and an honest question doesn't fit the discussion. The sad part is that you think we disagree based on the fact that I asked a question. My apologies if one simple question made you feel "cornered" in any way.

[KOMPOST]

I get it. It's just a slam piece that everyone is supposed to agree to and an honest question doesn't fit the discussion. The sad part is that you think we disagree based on the fact that I asked a question. My apologies if one simple question made you feel "cornered" in any way.

I must say it is curious that you defend DIBC at every opportunity.
When I say "every opportunity" let me be clear: EVERY OPPORTUNITY.
Curious, is all.

[kraig]

I must say it is curious that you defend DIBC at every opportunity.
When I say "every opportunity" let me be clear: EVERY OPPORTUNITY.
Curious, is all.

Please point out where I've defended the DIBC on this thread. Is asking a question or two considered defending the DIBC? As was stated in my previous post, it's sad that people think I disagree just because I asked a question.

Truth be told, I think a grave disservice is being done to the Mexicantown, Corktown, Delray residents by the DIBC, DRIC, Marathon Oil, the Detroit Salt Mines, MDOT, Cheeks-Kilpatrick, Tlaib, Dingell, Levin, Mayor Bing, City Council, Wayne County, Jennifer Granholm, the MDEQ and the EPA. You call it defending the DIBC. I call it not only looking at the person whose hand is in my left pocket, but the other people who have their hands in my right and back pockets as well. My enemy's enemy is not my friend in this situation.

If we're going to look at how Moroun is attempting to influence decision makers. Shouldn't we also look at the decisions that those decision makers have made? My one queston, and all it was was one question, at no point challenged anyone's conclusion on what Moroun was up to. It simply was a question that gave anyone who may have known the answer to it the opportunity to further expand on the intent of the article that clearly was not being done by the writer of the article or the original poster. It wasn't a gotcha, master debating tactic or indictment on anyone's viewpoint. It was simply one question. Is asking a question really that bad?