Toyota's Woes

**kryptonite** · January-29-10, 09:07 AM

Who saw the PBS Newshour report last night? It was pathetic - they interviewed a professor Liker from UofM who wrote a book called "The Toyota Way". All he did in the interview was crow about what wonderful cars Toyota makes and candy coated the entire problem - a defect resulting in a a number of deaths, 16 I believe. So this Liker guy does his Pollyanna happy sunshiney wonderful Toyota interview with PBS offering no information of substance; and at the end of his interview the PBS reporter [[Judy Woodruff?) mentioned that Toyota is and underwriter of PBS Newshour. So much for unbiased reporting. I am not bashing Toyota, they make great cars and this is just an unfortunate time for them, rather I was just not impressed with the way PBS reported the recall. It makes me re-think any future donations to Public television.

**Sstashmoo** · January-29-10, 09:10 AM

Quote: "The negative threads always seem to be the most popular here."

Such as it is with any medium. People ignore a wedding and flock to an accident.

**rb336** · January-29-10, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

New slogans:

Toyota. Go FASTER!

Toyota. Full Speed Ahead!

Whoa, What a Feeling... Whoa... WHOA!

i vote for the third

and yes, Schadenfreude is perfect for this thread, but after seeing US cars kicked around by people who still though GM was selling Novas and Chrysler still had the K-cars, it is well deserved.

**Detroitej72** · January-29-10, 10:22 AM

I can't wait for Senator Shelby to offer his apologist views on the automaker that received a public bailout, in the form of huge tax breaks from his state. I bet that wont be as public as his admonishment of GM and Chrysler.

Buy American · January-29-10, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

This is has to be the ultimate Detroit Schadenfreude thread.

That is an understatement Lowell, at least from my viewpoint.

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN.

Buy American · January-29-10, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by rid0617

All this talk about American cars and how unemployment is the fault of the foreign car owner, I guess I have to ask the obvious. Which car is my American made car? My Grand Marquis made in Canada or my Kia made in Georgia?

As I have said time and time again, profits from the Big 3 STAY in America and especially Michigan. Profits from toyota, kias, camrys, all foreign cars LEAVE OUR SHORES.

**kryptonite** · January-29-10, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Our trade with Canada is stable and on a pretty even keel. Korea [[as well as most of the Asian nations) is much more predatory and damaging.

Lilpup, that's because our country insitutes 'bend over' trade policies. One for example that I think Nancy Pelosi complained about during the GM/Chrysler bailout hearings was a trade policy signed with Korea that allowed for the shipment of 5,000 US-made vehicles to Korea in return for 6,000,000 Korean-made cars to be sent here. Whoever the congresswoman was I remember her saying "Who is signing these trade agreements". The numbers I mentioned could be off by a bit but I distinctly remember a few thousand US vehicles in exchange for several million Korean.

So when our government signs a trade agreement, American workers just bend over, grab your ankles and try to smile.

**milt721** · January-29-10, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

As I have said time and time again, profits from the Big 3 STAY in America and especially Michigan. Profits from toyota, kias, camrys, all foreign cars LEAVE OUR SHORES.

As it's been said time and time again, Big 3 profits LEAVE OUR STATE to build plants in Canada, Mexico and overseas. Profits from Toyota, Kias and many other foreign cars are building PLANTS IN THE US. Mostly in the south, but I'm pretty sure that's US soil. And I'm also pretty sure that all the people that work in those plants [[as well as the supplier plants) are not required to spend [[or send) their money to other countries.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you can't grasp this very simple concept.

Bearinabox · January-29-10, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by milt721

As it's been said time and time again, Big 3 profits LEAVE OUR STATE to build plants in Canada, Mexico and overseas. Profits from Toyota, Kias and many other foreign cars are building PLANTS IN THE US. Mostly in the south, but I'm pretty sure that's US soil. And I'm also pretty sure that all the people that work in those plants [[as well as the supplier plants) are not required to spend [[or send) their money to other countries.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you can't grasp this very simple concept.

Georgia might as well be in Mexico as far as I'm concerned. If the money isn't coming to Michigan, I don't particularly care which side of the border it ends up on. I've never been to Georgia in my life, I don't know anyone who lives there, and the state of the economy there has no impact on my everyday existence. I don't understand why I'm expected to care that Kia builds cars in Georgia.

**Mikeg** · January-29-10, 12:24 PM

As it's been said time and again, "Profits from Toyota, Kias and many other foreign based car companies are being used to build new mfg. plants in the US, further contributing to an already high amount of domestic automobile production overcapacity."

Why can't you understand how that is much more dangerous to the interests of the mfg. workers in GM, Chrysler and Ford plants in the US than their companies expansion of capacity in other countries?

**Det_ard** · January-29-10, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

Georgia might as well be in Mexico as far as I'm concerned. If the money isn't coming to Michigan, I don't particularly care which side of the border it ends up on. I've never been to Georgia in my life, I don't know anyone who lives there, and the state of the economy there has no impact on my everyday existence. I don't understand why I'm expected to care that Kia builds cars in Georgia.

That's exactly the attitude the rest of the country had toward Detroit during the bailouts. Who cares, not my problem, screw them. With a dollop of "serves them right" on top.

Bearinabox · January-29-10, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

That's exactly the attitude the rest of the country had toward Detroit during the bailouts. Who cares, not my problem, screw them. With a dollop of "serves them right" on top.

I didn't say "screw them" or "serves them right," I said that Georgia is no more or less relevant to me than is Mexico. If I'm choosing between a car built in Georgia and a car built in Mexico, where they're built will not be a factor in my decision.

**Detroitej72** · January-29-10, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

a trade policy signed with Korea that allowed for the shipment of 5,000 US-made vehicles to Korea in return for 6,000,000 Korean-made cars to be sent here.

Boy, you have to love those "free market" politicians. Anyone else see why the Utopian concept of a free market is a fairy tail?

Originally Posted by kryptonite

So when our government signs a trade agreement, American workers just bend over, grab your ankles and try to smile.

The truth hurts. Yet these clowns keep getting elected because they tell their constituents they are pro-guns, pro-life and are good Christians.

**bailey** · January-29-10, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

As I have said time and time again, profits from the Big 3 STAY in America and especially Michigan. Profits from toyota, kias, camrys, all foreign cars LEAVE OUR SHORES.

What profits? GM and Chrysler are bankrupt or owned by a foreign corporation. FoMoCO for the first time in 4 years made a "profit". this year but is mortgaged right down to the blue oval.

You can not honestly be saying that a ford product- designed, engineered, and built entirely overseas is BETTER for the US economy than a Kia or toyota or whatever, built in the US. The aggregation of the plant jobs with the multiplier effect on the local and state economies from those plant jobs [[the bars, restaurants, babysitters, income taxes, school taxes...etc) far exceeds any benefit that Michigan would receive from a Ford that designs and builds it's "world platform" cars everywhere but here. We dont have to look to far to see the answer. Look at Flint. If all those empty GM factories were pumping out kias..or whatever... would Flint be better or worse off?

What you drive, drives America.... but only if it's built here.

**Hermod** · January-29-10, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Boy, you have to love those "free market" politicians. Anyone else see why the Utopian concept of a free market is a fairy tail?

The truth hurts. Yet these clowns keep getting elected because they tell their constituents they are pro-guns, pro-life and are good Christians.

To be honest, the idea of "free trade" was a great "progressive" idea.

It was the industrialists that were for high tariffs and protection for American industries.

Free trade was supposed to remove barriers, prevent wars, and lead to the whole world singing "kumbaya".

Of course, eugenics [[the perfection of man )was also an idea hatched by the progressive community.

**RO_Resident** · January-29-10, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Has anyone explained why a CHiP could not figure out that shifting into neutral would have stopped the vehicle? I'm not looking to 'blame the victim"...however, I'm just speaking from my own personal view that if my brakes weren't doing the trick, the next move is to shift to neutral.

From some reports, the gated shifter in the ES350 may have lead to some confusion.

lilpup · January-29-10, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by milt721

As it's been said time and time again, Big 3 profits LEAVE OUR STATE to build plants in Canada, Mexico and overseas. Profits from Toyota, Kias and many other foreign cars are building PLANTS IN THE US. Mostly in the south, but I'm pretty sure that's US soil. And I'm also pretty sure that all the people that work in those plants [[as well as the supplier plants) are not required to spend [[or send) their money to other countries.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you can't grasp this very simple concept.

The very simple concept you aren't grasping is that the benefit trade off between the few jobs the transplants provide [[which is greatly discounted thanks to the tax breaks and other perks they extort from US taxpayers) and the profits they earn off their little-more-than-token presence here does not favor the US. If they thought they could earn as much by importing more without suffering a backlash they'd do it in a heartbeat. As it is Toyota *still* imports over 40% of their product.

The approach the US automakers have always taken is that they build on the continent where they're selling. You might bitch about jobs in Mexico, but those jobs in Mexico help reduce illegal immigration to the US and the Mexican and Canadian markets aren't closed to US product the way many of the Asian markets are. When the foreign transplants manufacture 80-100% of their North American sales in North America, get back to us.

**Zacha341** · January-29-10, 08:57 PM

Yikes! Who could find 'neutral' with this configuration! The Toyota's I've driven were pre-1995 models where the gear shift was a "straight" in-line set up. This would take some thinking about in contrast to the straight down D to N configuration. I've never figured out why 'automatic' trans cars try to imitate the fancy work of a stick shift... why? Cause it looks cool? It still ain't a stick. I drove manual sticks for years and enjoy them for that experience and advantage in the snow etc. But when I drive an automatic I want my gears in a simple row without all the NEEDLESS TURNS and twists!!

Originally Posted by RO_Resident

From some reports, the gated shifter in the ES350 may have lead to some confusion.

**East Detroit** · January-29-10, 09:04 PM

In other bad news for people who hate Detroit but continue to live and post here:

Honda recalls 646,000 Fits for fire hazard

http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/29/news...dex.htm?hpt=T2

Buy American · January-29-10, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

In other bad news for people who hate Detroit but continue to live and post here:

Honda recalls 646,000 Fits for fire hazard

http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/29/news...dex.htm?hpt=T2

Let 'em all rot ....maybe people will wake up and finally realize where their bread is buttered and by who.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · January-30-10, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

What profits? GM and Chrysler are bankrupt or owned by a foreign corporation. FoMoCO for the first time in 4 years made a "profit". this year but is mortgaged right down to the blue oval.

You can not honestly be saying that a ford product- designed, engineered, and built entirely overseas is BETTER for the US economy than a Kia or toyota or whatever, built in the US. The aggregation of the plant jobs with the multiplier effect on the local and state economies from those plant jobs [[the bars, restaurants, babysitters, income taxes, school taxes...etc) far exceeds any benefit that Michigan would receive from a Ford that designs and builds it's "world platform" cars everywhere but here. We dont have to look to far to see the answer. Look at Flint. If all those empty GM factories were pumping out kias..or whatever... would Flint be better or worse off?

What you drive, drives America.... but only if it's built here.

I concur, very good post.

**pffft** · January-30-10, 11:06 AM

The L.A. Times' investigative reporting has pointed more in the direction of an electronic problem...they call blaming it on the gas pedal a "red herring," just as blaming it on the floor mat was:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...tory?track=rss

**Roq** · January-30-10, 11:17 AM

I find little satisfaction in this story since people are dying due to this defect but I do hope it will forever shut the "Japanese cars are better quality, nyah, nyah" fanboi types up. Toyota is fallible, now deal with it.

**Patrick** · January-30-10, 11:43 AM

Toyota is in a world or hurt right now and many, especially in Japan, are wondering why it didn't happen sooner. That hick politician Jeffe Sessions from Alabama is already blaming Obama for Toyota's woes.