Toyota's Woes

[pffft]

Despite the fact that we're trying to diversify, our entire region's economy and well being is tied to the automotive industry, and we need to step in and help each other buy supporting the fruits of our neighbors' labor.

Very well said...

[Buy American]

Despite the fact that we're trying to diversify, our entire region's economy and well being is tied to the automotive industry, and we need to step in and help each other buy supporting the fruits of our neighbors' labor.

100% agreed.

As I have said on so many occasions...

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN.

[Hermod]

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN.

Sure would have been nice if those well-paid UAW workers had purchased Admiral and Zenith televisions instead of Panasonics and Sonys, purchased Kodak cameras instead of Minoltas and Yashicas, and purchased RCA radios instead of Toshibas and Samsungs.

All of those electronics and precision instruments used to be made in the US.

[Zacha341]

"Chromed plastic and light gauge sheet metal"... that sounds like a Dodge Neon [[been there, done that - Ford is the only domestic car I will drive)! And yes, you're right Toyota's don't go forever, yet [[on average) they do cycle for a very long, long time [[two to three owners), hence, all the ones you still see on the road in the 90's range. The 93 Camry I have has very little chromed plastic...and excellent fit and finish for its class.... perhaps the early Corollas probably did.

Quote: "I am curious to know how the older 92-98 or so Toyota sales are doing!"

Toyota's don't last that long. Can only take chromed plastic and light gage sheet metal so far. Sort of like those great cameras they make, you love them one day then throw them in a junk box the next. Known as a "throw-away".

[aoife]

Quote: "I am curious to know how the older 92-98 or so Toyota sales are doing!"

Toyota's don't last that long. Can only take chromed plastic and light gage sheet metal so far. Sort of like those great cameras they make, you love them one day then throw them in a junk box the next. Known as a "throw-away".

I see older model Toyotas all over- if the same could have been said for the GM cars I have owned I never would have ended up with my Toyota. I am not sure what bizzarro world you live in, but the only "throw away" cars I have ever owned were made by GM. Those POS did not even make it to 100,000 miles before they croaked. So now I drive a '97 Camry that has 279,000 miles on it. I have never had any sort of problem with it outside of the fact that I wore through a set of tires and a set of brakes. As for "throw away" cameras- I have no idea what you are talking about and I really don't think you do either.

[detrola]

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP SUPPORTING THE OUTSOURCING OF AMERICAN JOBS BY BUYING "DOMESTIC" CARS MANUFACTURED IN MEXICO OR CANADA.

It is not about "where the profit goes". Buying "American Made" cars that are manufactured in Mexico and Canada does nothing for domestic autoworkers. The company profits and the workers who made the cars keep their jobs. Do you really believe the profit from these cars will keep a worker at a US auto plant employed if the models he or she makes are in low demand?

[lilpup]

Buying "American Made" cars that are manufactured in Mexico and Canada does nothing for domestic autoworkers. The company profits and the workers who made the cars keep their jobs. Do you really believe the profit from these cars will keep a worker at a US auto plant employed if the models he or she makes are in low demand?

No, but I believe the Mexican builds will keep one less illegal immigrant from entering the US and will also help balance US-Mexican trade by raising the buying power of our neighboring Mexicans.

Toyota, on the other hand, still imports at least 40% of what they sell in the US - no US assembly involved.

[gnome]

here is a story of a guy who killed 3 people in a car accident and was convicted ... he's been sitting in prison for the last few years.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/even...33/group/home/

another story of a 70 yr old who crashed into a Vegas casino the other day

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tories_section

Gotta say I'd be a little nervous driving a toyota.

[bailey]

No, but I believe the Mexican builds will keep one less illegal immigrant from entering the US and will also help balance US-Mexican trade by raising the buying power of our neighboring Mexicans.

Toyota, on the other hand, still imports at least 40% of what they sell in the US - no US assembly involved.

But of course the flip side of that statement is that they produce 60% of what they sell here in the US, here in the US. right?

here is a story of a guy who killed 3 people in a car accident and was convicted ... he's been sitting in prison for the last few years.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/even...33/group/home/

That was 1996 Toyota. I don't think there are any claims of the accelerator issue happening on anything pre 2000s.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "On a more minor level, they resisted putting cup holders in, thought it was piggish of Americans to eat in cars..."

Just different cultures, we think it's rather piggish to sit on the floor and eat too.

[Buy American]

Quote:
Just different cultures, we think it's rather piggish to sit on the floor and eat too.

Shoeless, too...

[lilpup]

But of course the flip side of that statement is that they produce 60% of what they sell here in the US, here in the US. right?

Which is a lower percentage than any of the domestics and even Honda. Haven't you noticed how the bulk of the bitching about foreign cars is directed at Toyota for their less than honest PR spinning?

[East Detroit]

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP SUPPORTING THE OUTSOURCING OF AMERICAN JOBS BY BUYING "DOMESTIC" CARS MANUFACTURED IN MEXICO OR CANADA.

It is not about "where the profit goes". Buying "American Made" cars that are manufactured in Mexico and Canada does nothing for domestic autoworkers. The company profits and the workers who made the cars keep their jobs. Do you really believe the profit from these cars will keep a worker at a US auto plant employed if the models he or she makes are in low demand?

Then buy an domestic brand that is engineered and built right here. Plenty of them.

[Thomcat52]

Well, I'm not rushing out to buy a "new" Toyota. Due to economics in my household all of our cars are USED cash paid cars, so I have a late 90's Lincoln Town Car and a '93 Toyota Camry and so far no break problems [[just the chronic power steering leak known to that year).

IMO it was the late 80s and 90s were Toyota's and Honda's longevity and durability factor [[overall drive train) was a pull... in the small and midsized arena. These cars were loaded with amenities unheard of for economy size products and the shift towards buying them was high.

Sure, during those years there were recalls but not that many... and they often ran tighter for longer [[Honda had for example "wishbone" suspensions in their Civics long before US cars put that level of suspension into economy size cars) and the engines where renowned to go over 200,000, easily. Good mechanics knew/ know this.

Thus, that is the crucial reason you still see older early and mid 90's Toyata's [[especially) STILL on the road. Mine has 179,000+ miles on the original [[slightly cooked) V6 without even a valve job [[only a new timing belt).

Toyota's on average [[not all) remain in the "used" car cycle longer, to the consternation of those who hate to see 'em [[old or new), retaining their value longer. That's why there are so many still on the road, chugging or zooming by... on average they do or should we say did 'die' hard.

Often "cycling" thru about 3 owners before the ultimate car grave yard end. But as I said before this new round of Toyota's may not enjoy that long life...?

Would I buy a new Toyota? NO! Obviously the quality and safety level is down -- they had TO KNOW about this break problem and other issues. I'm getting some stares when I drive my old beater 93 Camry from those who think is it newer as it is in near mint condition.

Perhaps I should just push the thing over the into the river [[to the glee of those who rue seeing them on the road) but it is still driving so well, so I'll just stay in the right lane and get to where I have to go! I can't say I am saving much on gas as my used Ford and Toyota I have are V6 and V8 engines!

In my immediate and distant family we drive mostly new and used Fords and Chevys and some used Japanese foreign cars as well. If I could afford new I go with a new Ford Product.

PS. I am curious to know how the older 92-98 or so Toyota sales are doing! Perhaps good or better [[these models predate the break issue). Or maybe bad due to the rep. being tarnished....?

Bought my wife the '08 Lexus RX 350 SUV. 15 months later, I couldn't be happier! It's a dream machine beyond my expectations. Dominating on the super slab, beyond compare. Didn't expect the power and handling from an SUV that this car has. Talk about pampering, you haven't experienced a professional azz kissing until you visit a Lexus dealer for service.
American cars I've owned...
'83 Cutlass Supreme> Blown engine at 5100 miles [[warranty expired) Never going back!
'96 Ford Taurus> Heater core shot. Overheating problem[[Ford dealer could not fix) Junkyard! Left me with my thumb in the air too many times to count.
'00 Ram 1500> 3 transmissions! Dash [[cheap Mexican plastic) has rotted away. Electrical shorts everywhere. Sitting in the driveway now. You are supposed to buy 2 Rams, 1 to drive while the other is in the shop.

[lilpup]

It amazes me the way some people claim to have trouble with cars and blame the vehicle. Try a little routine maintenance next time, dears.

1994 Ford Escort: 253,000+ miles when sold off
1997 Ford Escort: 190,000+ miles and still going

[East Detroit]

And now its power steering, but a Japanese company can refuse to speak to Congress.

Toyota is looking into possible power steering problems with the hot-selling Corolla subcompact while its president said Wednesday he won’t be attending the U.S. Congressional hearing on the automaker’s safety lapses.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010021...o-Corolla-woes

[Zacha341]

Of course that's a factor. I too had a Ford Escort that went over 200,000+ and have used classic Lincoln Towncar with a zillion miles and my old 93' Camry is still running strong with 179,000+ on a partially "cooked" engine [[engine overheated a few times due to old leaking water pump).

Yet, an honest and candid talk with a good full service mechanic [[or two or three) or used car dealers will let you know which makes/ models, and years have "premature" drive train failures, buggy electronics, and cheaply made components that cause daisy chain problems: domestic and foreign!

They know the trends per the repeat business for certain cars for similar problems. They know which replacement parts they have to stock more of per failure of said part and component. And in the case of used car sales [[private and dealer), the cars that hold the highest value are those which cycle the longest, thus have the longevity people seek in that market. The more "disposable" models are sold cheaper.

And a good look at and time spent driving some cars let you know where the fit and finish is superior and when it's shotty, like lighting housings full of water, bulging rubber seatings/ housings, premature pitted plastic, seating coming off the rails, abundance of chromed plastic, cheap nail-polish paint finishing, premature paint flaking, and dulling. Engine and tranny performance over the long haul etc. ETC.

And let's not forget the the fit and feel of the ride and suspension... I've driven behind brand new cars models with sagging suspensions with the recommended maximum of 4 passengers... tracking poorly on the road. Poor workmanship... to see that so early, yet you see other older cars hold wonderfully fully loaded.

It amazes me the way some people claim to have trouble with cars and blame the vehicle. Try a little routine maintenance next time, dears.

1994 Ford Escort: 253,000+ miles when sold off
1997 Ford Escort: 190,000+ miles and still going

[Zacha341]

This is not good. And Toyota new sales are going to plummet, even the older model prices may come down at the used car level [[good times for those who want to grab a mid 90's or prior model that predate the problems now plaguing the Toyota brand... I have a friend with a new Toyota Corolla and she is worried. Ford and Honda sales should improve behind this. Chrysler: Don't start "clapping" your hands just yet..........

And now its power steering, but a Japanese company can refuse to speak to Congress.

Toyota is looking into possible power steering problems with the hot-selling Corolla subcompact while its president said Wednesday he won’t be attending the U.S. Congressional hearing on the automaker’s safety lapses.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010021...o-Corolla-woes

[East Detroit]

The deflecting anecdotes from the Toyota drivers are mildly amusing.
Anything to justify the erroneous decision to go anti-Detroit.
Likely they are praying for a Detroit recall.

Fact is... TODAY [[and for several recent years apparently) there are Toyotas that have failing brakes, failing steering and out of control acceleration. And everyone knows the floormats and shims are nonsense. Next they are going to introduce "slam on the brakes and kill the engine" as a failsafe. Why would they do that if the shim and floormats fixes work? Why wont Toyoda go before Congress?

Makes the rotting frame of the Tundra and the sludging failure of Toyota engines seem no big deal by comparison.

[Zacha341]

Yeah, everyone has had varying experience, I just say that while Toyota is in the deep dog house now [[self-induced I will ad--they had to know their brakes were a problem - and their response to it - deplorable), the quality issue was not a myth on average. And mechanics and owners know this per repair rates, per frequency and repetition of problems etc... and your eyes tell you that by how many 90's Toyota models REMAIN in the cycle, still being driven.

And yet there are some strong domestic models out there too, you just need to carefully review before you buy, new or used.

My worst domestic car, was a "drift all over the road" Chevy Cavalier... it was a family members passed on after they passed away: It was absolutely disposable [[seats coming off the rails - poor handling, weak suspension), it was so cheaply made. We finally just sold it at a huge loss when it was clear it was not going to "clear" the financed years left to pay on it. It had great heat though!

Foreign jobs never have enough heat for me. My Luxury Edition 93' Camry only knocks the chill off... if you want some heat drive a Chevy or Ford.... My Lincoln Towncar is a blast furnace for heat in the winter...LOL! Go Ford!

Bought my wife the '08 Lexus RX 350 SUV. 15 months later, I couldn't be happier! It's a dream machine beyond my expectations. Dominating on the super slab, beyond compare. Didn't expect the power and handling from an SUV that this car has. Talk about pampering, you haven't experienced a professional azz kissing until you visit a Lexus dealer for service.
American cars I've owned...
'83 Cutlass Supreme> Blown engine at 5100 miles [[warranty expired) Never going back!
'96 Ford Taurus> Heater core shot. Overheating problem[[Ford dealer could not fix) Junkyard! Left me with my thumb in the air too many times to count.
'00 Ram 1500> 3 transmissions! Dash [[cheap Mexican plastic) has rotted away. Electrical shorts everywhere. Sitting in the driveway now. You are supposed to buy 2 Rams, 1 to drive while the other is in the shop.

[Hermod]

Foreign jobs never have enough heat for me. My Luxury Edition 93' Camry only knocks the chill off... if you want some heat drive a Chevy or Ford.... My Lincoln Towncar is a blast furnace for heat in the winter...LOL! Go Ford!

You aren't old enough to have driven the 50s and 60s VWs. There was no heater fan. The only air flow came from the rear engine cooling fan. They took forever to put out heat and even when they were warmed up, the heat wasn't much. Don't even ask about defrosting inside of the windshield [[keep a rag handy and keep wiping).,

My wife was so happy when I traded the 64 VW which I bought in Germany for a 68 Plymouth wagon.

[Zacha341]

Yep, that's why I would not buy a new or recent model Toyota. This is going to take years to sort out. In the meantime perhaps Ford and Honda can slip forward in the ranking finally knocking Toyota out of their standing. I think we're still scratching the surface of what is at the heart of these breaking and steering issues. Yet, I am certain the old Toyota's will continue to cycle thru and be driven. And yes, I'd read about the Toyota sludging problems, but I never experienced it with my old 93' Camry, but I am meticulous about changing the oil and selecting the kind of oil I use.

The deflecting anecdotes from the Toyota drivers are mildly amusing.
Anything to justify the erroneous decision to go anti-Detroit.
Likely they are praying for a Detroit recall.

Fact is... TODAY [[and for several recent years apparently) there are Toyotas that have failing brakes, failing steering and out of control acceleration. And everyone knows the floormats and shims are nonsense. Next they are going to introduce "slam on the brakes and kill the engine" as a failsafe. Why would they do that if the shim and floormats fixes work? Why wont Toyoda go before Congress?

Makes the rotting frame of the Tundra and the sludging failure of Toyota engines seem no big deal by comparison.

[Zacha341]

Right, not quite that old, but I'd heard about it. And the windshield wiping too!! I don't do European cars at all. From the practical side they're just too hard and expensive to buy parts for and maintain... and the whole reason for buying a used car [[which is my thing) is to save money. LOL!

You aren't old enough to have driven the 50s and 60s VWs. There was no heater fan. The only air flow came from the rear engine cooling fan. They took forever to put out heat and even when they were warmed up, the heat wasn't much. Don't even ask about defrosting inside of the windshield [[keep a rag handy and keep wiping).,

My wife was so happy when I traded the 64 VW which I bought in Germany for a 68 Plymouth wagon.

[East Detroit]

Yep, that's why I would not buy a new or recent model Toyota. This is going to take years to sort out. In the meantime perhaps Ford and Honda can slip forward in the ranking finally knocking Toyota out of their standing.

Which ranking? For quality, all 3 were tied, but with recent Toyota and Honda recalls, I suspect Ford is essentially already #1 by itself. For sales, Honda is not close.... seems that its Ford and Hyundai making the most strides now in sales.

[pffft]

European cars are fun toys, but either not dependable at all, or the "routine" maintenance will bankrupt you...

I too remember those early VWs, and while the heating system was primitive, they were good at getting around in the snow. When all the rear-wheel cars of the time were in the ditch, the Beetle would stay on the road.

You almost always had to learn how to fix it though...