Thinking of leaving Detroit.What metro detroit cities do you suggest?

[princealbert]

Bear- I'm not a city hater, if that's what you're insinuating. Why do things always have to be black or white to some people? Enlightened people find the good things wherever they are, city, suburb, country, wherever. I used to have the "city is better than the suburb" mentality, I'll admit, but not any more. Isn't that kind of ignorant thinking what caused a lot of the whoas around here? I'm sorry, a person is not automatically better or more valid because they live in the city limits of Detroit.

[Bearinabox]

Bear- I'm not a city hater, if that's what you're insinuating.

It wasn't.

Why do things always have to be black or white to some people? Enlightened people find the good things wherever they are, city, suburb, country, wherever.

This was more or less the point of my post. Sorry if that was unclear.

Isn't that kind of ignorant thinking what caused a lot of the whoas around here?

Yes.

[princealbert]

Sorry Bear, I misunderstood your intent. We're in agreement, then. I guess some of the haters that posted earlier got my dander up.

[EMG]

Farms is better

/just sayin

Hm, might I detect a bit of bias there?

I do agree the Farms also has a lot to like too. Beautiful neighborhoods with huge old homes, lots of big mature shade trees and - of particular interest to me for my own purposes - the "hilliest" areas of all the neighborhoods I knew. [[I used to joke that the city would more properly have been named "Grosse Pointe Hills!") I used to love riding my bike up and down Ridge/Vernor and all the streets that crossed it, especially Beaupre, Stephens, etc. not to mention that great downhill stretch of Kerby where at first glance it looked like you were headed right into the lake. Whenever I wanted a REAL cardiovascular workout I would head for the Farms.

[kraig]

I didn't catch this the first time, but you saw a woman being attacked and lying on the ground for 45 minutes without going to check on her? Perhaps you have spent too much time in Detroit.

Actually, they did the right thing by calling and staying put. A person in distress is one of the easiest ways to lure someone into a trap or ambush. Had they gone to check, it might have made matters worse.

[Retroit]

Actually, they did the right thing by calling and staying put. A person in distress is one of the easiest ways to lure someone into a trap or ambush. Had they gone to check, it might have made matters worse.

Sounds like the attitude of the German people during the Holocaust.

[kraig]

Sounds like the attitude of the German people during the Holocaust.

No, nothing like that. That's just one of those things that con people like to do that people need to be aware of. Last year during the Final Four, here in Detroit, someone robbed or attempted to rob the mayor of Indianopolis in a similar scenario. As he was walking down the street, a man was on the ground appearing as if something had happened to him. When the mayor stopped to assist, another man approached and picked his pocket or attempted to pick his pocket. I don't remember the full details. I was one of those skeptical of the story when I first heard it. But it turned out to be true.

We also hear plenty of stories of someone pulling over to help someone else and getting attacked. Using someone that appears in distress to lure someone else into the open is a very real tactic.

[Johnnny5]

Actually, they did the right thing by calling and staying put. A person in distress is one of the easiest ways to lure someone into a trap or ambush. Had they gone to check, it might have made matters worse.

Maybe it's just the way I was raised, or where I live, but there's no way in hell I would have just sat by the phone while the cops never showed. In my neighborhood I could think of half a dozen people who would be checking on the woman [[And probably another half dozen gunning for the piece of shit who attacked her). If it looks suspicious knock on a couple doors and get a group of people to investigate, you don't just sit there and watch someone suffer.

[kraig]

Maybe it's just the way I was raised, or where I live, but there's no way in hell I would have just sat by the phone while the cops never showed. In my neighborhood I could think of half a dozen people who would be checking on the woman [[And probably another half dozen gunning for the piece of shit who attacked her). If it looks suspicious knock on a couple doors and get a group of people to investigate, you don't just sit there and watch someone suffer.

I hear what you and Retroit are saying. And it's really a judgement call issue. Myself, I would and have checked out situations like that. But, I also have a CCW and training. But, if it was my wife or one of my kids calling and telling me the same scenario about the police not responding. I would tell them to call for an ambulance. But under no circumstances would I want them to go outside and investigate.

However, I do concur with your safety in numbers strategy of knocking on some doors.

[MotownSpartan]

There are a number of very nice suburbs in metro Detroit. Grosse Pte is beautiful but very little retail. Wyandotte has a lot going for it including a cute downtown. Allen Park and Dearborn have wonderful residential neighborhoods, Dearborn has thriving business strips. Plymouth and Northville are very popular with many people. I personally don't care for Royal Oak but there is a lot of nightlife there. Troy is boring IMO but I swear almost everything a human being needs is inside their city limits. Livonia is another Troy. I lived in Redford for a year and have to say it impressed me in many ways.

Leaving MI is always an option, it depends on how the economy, weather, crappy roads, etc. effect you. Plus, if you like Michigan why leave? The cost of living is not bad here, the quality of life is often good as well although not right now. I have lived through a few of these awful recessions and sooner or later it will end. but the economic cycles in this state can wear on your psyche. But it is a beautiful state, particularly up north.

GP has a good amount of retail. It's got three "downtown" areas [[one in the park, city and farms) and a lot of retail along the Mack corridor. Furthermore, it's a 15 minute drive or 12 mile bike ride to downtown Detroit. Unlike other farther out suburbs, all of the city's retail is easily accessible from GP, in fact, downtown Detroit is more accessible from GP than even some true Detroit neighborhoods.

As compared to a place like Indian Village, GP has a lot more walkable retail options [[not to disparage Indian Village because it's an absolutely stunning area).

edit: I think a lot of the suburbs hatred is really unfounded [[at least as it applies to certain suburbs). For example, what's the difference between the block after block after block after block of single family homes that make up so many "city" neighborhoods and the similar single family home, traditional grid lock pattern, neighborhoods of Ferndale, GP, Royal Oak, etc.

Indian Village is exactly the same as Grosse Pointe in terms of layout and design. If you want to say Grosse Pointe is a horrible, mundane and boring life [[because it's a suburb), then by comparison so too is Indian Village or East English Village or Boston-Edison, Corktown, Woodbridge, etc. ... these are just neighborhoods of single family homes. Personally, I happen to love all of the above mentioned neighborhoods and think they add a lot to our metro region.

We need to focus on rebuilding our city core, but this doesn't mean that all suburbs are bad just because they're a "suburb."

[trotwood]

Maybe it's just the way I was raised, or where I live, but there's no way in hell I would have just sat by the phone while the cops never showed. In my neighborhood I could think of half a dozen people who would be checking on the woman [[And probably another half dozen gunning for the piece of shit who attacked her). If it looks suspicious knock on a couple doors and get a group of people to investigate, you don't just sit there and watch someone suffer.

I didn't think I'd have to justify nor defend my actions here. This thread was an innocent attempt to seek out suggestions as to what forum members might have for other cities in the MetroDetroit area that I should look at.
Since some have felt the need to comment on why I didn't charge out into the dark Detroit night I'll try to explain.
[[1). I've been the victim of violent crimes four times over the years here in Detroit. I'm not eager to have it happen again! Had I been armed I would have charged to the woman's aid. I don't hold a CCW nor do I have a firearm in my home. Right or wrong we've all seen stories on the news,or read about,good samaritans being assualted or worse trying to do the right thing. I didn't want to be another story on the news!
[[2). Johnny,kudos to you and those who live in a neighborhood where a group of you would go looking for the aggressor in the situation I described. I,unfortunately,do not live in that type of neighborhood or on such a block. I was not the only one who heard the cries of the woman yet I was the only one who called the police. How do I know others heard you might ask? I mentioned the incident to a few people in my building and a neighboring building only to be told that they[[the tenants)heard the woman but did nothing. The people I live around,though nice enough,don't seem to have an interest in the neighborhood or the area in general if it doesn't affect them directly. Which,by the way, is one of the reasons I'm looking to leave Detroit.
[[3). As I said the police department is 3 blocks from my home so I mistakenly assumed it would only be a matter of a few minutes to have a squad car dispatched considering I reported hearing a woman yelling that someone was killing her!
For those of you who think I was wrong for not going out then God bless you and your opinion but I'm a little tired of being told how wrong I was or what a terrible thing I did by not going outdoors!!

[trotwood]

Trotwood-- I feel your frustration. I surely don't understand the city/suburb debate. Since the majority of Detroit proper is a sprawling suburb, why not live somewhere where you get services for your tax money. Once you realize it is not fiscally wise to own a house in the city limits, the decision is easy. I admire and support the former suburbanites that move to the city and try to make it a better place. I was one. It's a lost cause in much of the city.

I choose to live in Redford Twp. I think it's one of the most central locales in the metro area. Half hour drive to A2, half hour to the far East Side, 15 minutes to Downtown. Lower property taxes, lower home and car insurance, no city income tax. Lots of dining and grocery options and I can walk to the party store without looking over my shoulder. Works for me. Very reminiscent of what Detroit neighborhoods used to be not that long ago.

All you suburb haters need to get some help. This REGION is more important than the C of D at this point and has been for a long time. Face the facts and you will feel much better about yourselves.

I appreciate you taking the time to post a response Princealbert.

[trotwood]

The poster seems like they've completely lost hope, so they want to "get away" from the problems. But the problems are still there. I'll respect someone who tries to stay and solve them. Consider that the people moving out of the city are those who have in a sense "made it," as in they now or always did have privilages that many in Detroit do not. With the ability to move, a lot of people choose to move out of the city. Do I respect this? No. I don't. I'm not saying their reasons are not justified, or that I don't feel the same frustrations. What I am saying is that you should use your privilage to help the city and its most oppressed people. Otherwise, what are you doing? Falling into line with the "every man for himself" mentality, to the "good guys finish last" mentality, AKA garage rises. Suburbanites are often times worse than outsiders, honesty. Much more likely to be racist, classist, and hold backward ass views on race, class, gender and politics. That is the dynamic in Detroit metro region. We have the most racist, classist, segregated metro region in country if not the world. I'm okay if Michigan bleeds more people, so long as they're not from the city, hopefully some immigrants will replace them. After all, it is suburban political power western Michigan who now have all the political power, and who have pushed Detroit into a corner. "Oh, that problem child in the corner of the state, yeah... let's try to just ignore that." Well mark my words: the chickens will come home to roost! We're tired of being ignored! We're tired of being left out! And we will not take it any longer!

"The poster seems like they've completely lost hope, so they want to "get away" from the problems."
That's just about sums it up. That's the way I feel and I fail to see what the hell is wrong with feeling that way! With all due respect I don't give a flip whether or not you respect my desire to leave the city. I don't know you and vice versa. My well being and peace of mind don't rest on your respect or opinion of me. Futhermore my desire to leave has nothing to do with a sense of having "made it". I don't think it's unreasonable to want to live in a place where city services are delivered in a timely decent manner. To those who love Detroit and want to stay God bless and keep you. There is much I enjoy about the city[[museums,sports venues,entertainment,etc)and there are many good people here. However,in my experience and mine alone,the bad seems to be the rule rather than the expception here . I'd like to live in a place where the opposite is true! I'd like to live in a city where it's not a common thing to have the street lights out,where it's a rare occurance that the police don't respond in a reasonable time,where it's not common place to have someone breaking into homes,where it's a blue moon occurance being robbed while taking a stroll after dark.
If wanting that makes me wrong then so be it!
You want to stay then you stay!
I thank you for your post just the same. Best of luck and continued happiness to you and your family.

[smudge pot]

I didn't think I'd have to justify nor defend my actions here. ... Since some have felt the need to comment on why I didn't charge out into the dark Detroit night I'll try to explain ...

Trot, relax, street justice is rough justice. My job takes me into the ghetto, Mon-Fri, wee hours. You're bound to see some cheezy drama, but the main rule, especially if you have a family, is never, never, ever give up the initiative. Slow down, make eye contact, hold eye contact, make friendly conversation in your best suburban hillbilly cracker manner, but remember your options, remember your weapons, your advantages, your initiative. Maybe you'll never sit at the Round Table, but if some b*tch happens to gets a beat down, oh well, that's a far better outcome than your kids going without a father.

[trotwood]

Smudge you sound so wise.

[Johnnny5]

. Maybe you'll never sit at the Round Table, but if some b*tch happens to gets a beat down, oh well, that's a far better outcome than your kids going without a father.

And that right there is the major difference between a livable, functioning neighborhood and the "hood". The turned heads and the "I didn't see anything", "It's not my problem" mentality is what has made Detroit what it is today. I very much enjoy this site and Detroit, but I'm starting to agree with the premise of this entire thread, it's f-ing hopeless!

[Long Lake]

Farms is better

/just sayin

I would agree. While I prefer the Western suburbs over Eastern suburbs, if I were to live in the Pointes, the Woods would be my last choice.

Why?

1. GP North is inferior to GP South, and the Woods schools are more Harper Woods-like than GP-like.

2. The Woods are heavily postwar bungalow-style, with relatively few of the larger, older homes that make GP unique.

3. The Woods lacks the walkability and street-facing retail of the other Pointes.

4. If, one day, the decline from Detroit would ever affect the Pointes, IMO, the Woods would be the first to feel it.

[Pam]

but if some b*tch happens to gets a beat down,

Nice attitude.

[Hermod]

Trotwood, go and live where you will be safe and happy. You do not owe Detropit anything and, should you go and live in Tahiti, neither do you owe Michigan or the US anything.

If a resident's presence in a government entity is a relative plus to that entity, it is incumbent on that entity to provide sufficient financial, security, and lifestyle benefits to that resident that he willingly absorbs the financial, security, and lifestyle costs of living in that entity. If his personal cost-benefit analysis computes to be adverse, he is well within his rights to "vote with his feet".

[detroittrader]

Not trying to be sarcastic, but why didn't you just move to Huntington Woods?

I was really just making a joke that my house would be worth a lot more in HW than Oak Park. I live right on the border. I'm on an Oak Park budget though I like it here a lot so far.....my latest observation is that at least one cop is always patrolling Coolidge from 10 mile north to 11. 24/7. Sometimes 2 or 3 squad cars. Just sayin'.

[masterblaster]

Since the majority of Detroit proper is a sprawling suburb, why not live somewhere where you get services for your tax money.

All you suburb haters need to get some help. This REGION is more important than the C of D at this point and has been for a long time. Face the facts and you will feel much better about yourselves.

PrinceAlbert, you call Detroit proper "sprawling suburb", but Detroit's population density at its peak population [[13,200 people/square mile), was similar to St. Louis [[14,000/sq. mile), Baltimore [[11,700/sq. mile), and Washington DC [[13,100/sq.mile) at their population peak. Do you consider those rowhouse cities sprawling suburbs?

Also, what do you mean the region is more important than the city at this point? I don't understand that comment but I know that is important to the health of the region that the city of Detroit be established as an unique, vibrant urban city for that sizable portion of the US population that favor living in urban areas. Detroit has far more potential -historic architecture, historic neighborhoods, relatively walkable/pedestrian friendly/storefronts, relatively long riverfront - one that CAN attract those younger professionals that have been leaving THE REGION for decades [[even prior to this current economic crisis) to more desirable cities like Chicago,Washington, DC, etc. - than stand-alone suburbs with downtowns like Wyandotte and Royal Oak.

[Retroit]

And that right there is the major difference between a livable, functioning neighborhood and the "hood". The turned heads and the "I didn't see anything", "It's not my problem" mentality is what has made Detroit what it is today. I very much enjoy this site and Detroit, but I'm starting to agree with the premise of this entire thread, it's f-ing hopeless!

...and, yet, hope endures: http://www.wxyz.com/mostpopular/story/Elderly-Woman-Attacked-Neighbor-Calls-911/zJMLj3z-HUq5HMbBX9IBtw.cspx

Robert Mallard, my hat's off to you!

[EMG]

I would agree. While I prefer the Western suburbs over Eastern suburbs, if I were to live in the Pointes, the Woods would be my last choice.

Why?

1. GP North is inferior to GP South, and the Woods schools are more Harper Woods-like than GP-like.

2. The Woods are heavily postwar bungalow-style, with relatively few of the larger, older homes that make GP unique.

3. The Woods lacks the walkability and street-facing retail of the other Pointes.

4. If, one day, the decline from Detroit would ever affect the Pointes, IMO, the Woods would be the first to feel it.

Ok, I've been out of there for several years admittedly; however:

1) I'm not aware of any objective evidence to support point #1 unless it is strictly on the basis of architecture, which I'm sure wasn't your intent.

2) That is certainly true. Based strictly on the availability of "larger, older homes" any of the other Pointes would have an advantage, and in descending sequence I'd rank them Shores, Farms, Park and City in that order. But unless he's from Palmer Park or Indian Village or unless he plans to move to the almost-Alter-Road southern border of the Park, a person making his first transition out of Detroit to a Pointe is far more likely to find the Woods an AFFORDABLE option.

3) Unless the GPW stretch of Mack Avenue has taken a serious nosedive since I've left, you have GOT to be kidding.

4) As you stated, that's a matter of opinion, but as far as the intrusion of crime, my vote would go to the Park. The Woods still has Harper Woods and Copper Canyon as buffers. The Park has neither.

[bartock]

Ok, I've been out of there for several years admittedly; however:

1) I'm not aware of any objective evidence to support point #1 unless it is strictly on the basis of architecture, which I'm sure wasn't your intent.

2) That is certainly true. Based strictly on the availability of "larger, older homes" any of the other Pointes would have an advantage, and in descending sequence I'd rank them Shores, Farms, Park and City in that order. But unless he's from Palmer Park or Indian Village or unless he plans to move to the almost-Alter-Road southern border of the Park, a person making his first transition out of Detroit to a Pointe is far more likely to find the Woods an AFFORDABLE option.

3) Unless the GPW stretch of Mack Avenue has taken a serious nosedive since I've left, you have GOT to be kidding.

4) As you stated, that's a matter of opinion, but as far as the intrusion of crime, my vote would go to the Park. The Woods still has Harper Woods and Copper Canyon as buffers. The Park has neither.

He is right about #1. There is a descrepancy, and I am too lazy to pull the MEAP evidence, but it is there. GP North is considered [[albeit by GP-ers) to be a much worse school, citing the aforementioned MEAP scores, the Harper Woods [[where I live), Eastland "people", etc. etc. Generally speaking I do not like to get into the racial/Detroit stuff, but it is palpable in terms of why the long-timers [[I can't say, only been in this part of town for 7 years) believe GP North is falling fast.

You make a good point about the Woods being more affordable. low to mid -150s now in the area west of Mack abutting HW. The Farms is still comparably more expensive, but both areas [[with exceptions, of course) for someone with reasonable means are now affordable.

Mack Ave. is still very walkable. Some of the retail on the Detroit side south of Cadieux appears to be hurting, but the main "retail" between Moross and Vernier is still going strong.

Comparing the Woods to the Farms, I think the Woods would go first. Comparing all of the Pointes, it is unquestionably the Park.

[Fury13]

Trotwood: I'll echo what some others have posted. Take a look at walkable, older inner-ring suburbs with their own business districts/downtowns... and then narrow those choices down to the ones that offer a high quality of life, low crime, and good city services.

I'm talking about Ferndale, Royal Oak, Huntington Woods, Berkley [[some of the best schools in the country), and Birmingham in Oakland County. Farmington too. To the west, Dearborn, Dearborn Heights, and Redford are viable. Downriver, Wyandotte... maybe Lincoln Park. Hamtramck is gritty but offers real diversity, flair, and nightlife.

To the east, I would recommend any of the Pointes, but my favorite is Grosse Pointe Park [[even the Cabbage Patch, the couple of streets closest to Detroit line, is appealing, and offers a look at what a lot of the old Detroit eastside was like before the deterioration). I wouldn't recommend anything in Macomb County [[I confess to an extreme anti-Macomb bias because of the corrupt power structure there), but if you MUST live there, St. Clair Shores would probably be the only choice.

There are some stand-alone communities that are worth considering [[part of the metro area but not really suburbs, per se). Plymouth is quaint and retains a small-town feel while offering good restaurants and a high quality of life. Northville... ehhh... it is nice, but unnecessarily "prettified" over the last two decades. Ann Arbor, being a college town, has a broad range of cultural activities, nightlife, and restaurants. Ypsilanti is often forgotten but there's a lot of untapped potential there, and it has a 19th/early 20th-century downtown that's fascinating architecturally as well as Depot Town.