Woodward Line Stations

[ghettopalmetto]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Rocko's comment lamented the construction of a new Amtrak / commuter rail station in the New Center area, across from the existing Amshack.

I don't think it's a bad location at all for a "main" rail station. Since many destinations in Detroit will be beyond walking distance of this station, distribution will have to be provided by the local transit system, which in this case, is the Woodward Light Rail.

The New Center location has both necessary ingredients:
1. existing rail trackage
2. along the routing of the proposed local transit system.

There aren't any locations in the CBD that have both of these.

[tkelly1986]

Just random musings, but I also like the idea of tunneling under the CBD, using the Dequindre Cut. Tunnel from the Dequindre to the other side of Cobo, going under Hart Plaza; build a station [[largely underground) at the foot of Woodward. This could house heavy rail commuter lines, as well as a light rail line going North [[much like how the Blue line goes under LaSalle street in Chicago). In the same process, go through with the redevelopment of Hart Plaza that was talked about a few years ago.

Again, I understand this will cost a ton...but it’s simply a vision. However, I also like the idea of a rail station being built into a new/renovated Cobo. Either way, the new station should be modeled after the old FSUD.

[stasu1213]

Okay, you got me. I guess everything is a conspiracy. Someone like me? What am I like, in your mind?The system was designed by professionals based on research and successful examples from other cities. It has to be designed so it will work. It is.This is irrelevant and borderline gibberish. I have no response.Rail will have more of an effect on Woodward. Rail running in a ditch surrounded by nothing will have no effect on development and will be relatively useless to area residents. I think you're forgetting that the vast majority of that rail corridor is still used by freight and Amtrak trains.How? Federal funds, as we're seeing with this light rail project, take a long time to apply for and receive. Making a walking trail was about the easiest thing that could have been done with that ditch, apart from just leaving it as it was.

General Motors as well as other car companies in the past had conspired to get American addicted to the automobile. Have not you read the blog on this site about it this past summer or early fall? Naturally when people can't comprehend the truth they often times suffer from cognotive dissedence and count the info a gibberish. Riders are trying to get from point A to point B and light rail surrounded by nothing is inmaterial. HELLO. Subways are surrounded by nothing but do you think the riders care? Go visit New York City and ride one. Try not to get mugged in the process. FYI. Light rail is still being though of to be used in the Dequindre Cut in the future. Please look it up.

What I really don't understand about this rail project is that, if implemented as designed, it will be one of the best things to happen to this poor fucked-up town in a very, very long time, and all anyone can do about it is bitch. "We want a subway or an elevated rail!" "all it is is a conspiracy to keep bus drivers and rubber companies in business!" "It should stop more often!" "It should stop less often!" "It's too expensive!" "It should be built faster!" "They should use the Dequindre Cut!" "Waaaaaaah!" Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the folks in charge of this thing have no ulterior motives? That they're working very hard with a very bad situation and are, against all odds, closer to succeeding than anyone before them? That maybe they have some clue what they're doing? That all the research they put into this project maybe helped them decide how to build it? I'm baffled by all the complaining, and I'm more cynical than most.

There was a blog on this site that discussed the automotibel companies plans to make americans dependent on the automobile. It even had a infomercial on what the world would be like in the future. "1960". I am sure others on this site could remember that blog. You had said that the train, if built in the Dequindre Cut would had been surrounded by nothing. Go to New York City and see what the subways there are surrounded by. The passengers there just want to get from point A to point B. Anyone riding light rail through the Dequindre Cut would had wanted the same. So who gives a damn about being surrounded by nothingness while traveling. There are plans to putting a light rail in the Dequindre Cut in the future. Do your research and learn to think outside of the box Bearinthebox

[ghettopalmetto]

What does that mean, subways are "surrounded by nothing"? When I go to New York, the subways are surrounded by millions of people and some of the most valuable real estate in the world.

[Bearinabox]

There was a blog on this site that discussed the automotibel companies plans to make americans dependent on the automobile. It even had a infomercial on what the world would be like in the future. "1960". I am sure others on this site could remember that blog.

1960 was an awfully long time ago. I don't see how this is relevant to anything going on today.

You had said that the train, if built in the Dequindre Cut would had been surrounded by nothing. Go to New York City and see what the subways there are surrounded by. The passengers there just want to get from point A to point B. Anyone riding light rail through the Dequindre Cut would had wanted the same. So who gives a damn about being surrounded by nothingness while traveling.

You're assuming that point A is Pontiac and point B is downtown. Are you aware that people live in between those two places, and that they might want to get on and off the light rail in the middle? If you route it through the middle of nowhere, then it can't be used to reach intermediate destinations like Wayne State, New Center, or Palmer Park. Routing it there also guarantees that there will be no spin-off development along the route, which is one of the major justifications for building light rail in the first place. Besides, most of the route from the end of the walking trail to Pontiac is used by freight and Amtrak trains. You haven't addressed that.

There are plans to putting a light rail in the Dequindre Cut in the future. Do your research and learn to think outside of the box Bearinthebox

I am awestruck by the power of your wit. Zing!

[stasu1213]

What does that mean, subways are "surrounded by nothing"? When I go to New York, the subways are surrounded by millions of people and some of the most valuable real estate in the world.

Bearinthebox was concern about the lack of scenery that riders would view through the windows of the lightrail train had it ran through the Dequindre Cut for the Dequindre Cut is below ground. I had remind him that the subways in New York go through tunnels and while in that tunnel you cant see anything. The only thing that the passengers on the subway cares about is getting from point A to point B. They could care less about seeing trees and landscape on their' journey to or from.

[stasu1213]

1960 was an awfully long time ago. I don't see how this is relevant to anything going on today.You're assuming that point A is Pontiac and point B is downtown. Are you aware that people live in between those two places, and that they might want to get on and off the light rail in the middle? If you route it through the middle of nowhere, then it can't be used to reach intermediate destinations like Wayne State, New Center, or Palmer Park. Routing it there also guarantees that there will be no spin-off development along the route, which is one of the major justifications for building light rail in the first place. Besides, most of the route from the end of the walking trail to Pontiac is used by freight and Amtrak trains. You haven't addressed that.
I am awestruck by the power of your wit. Zing!

The system will have stopping points just like any other subway doesnt. It could stop at the New Center and other stops on it's way to Pontiac. HELLO. As far as the light rail in the Dequindre Cut is concern; look at the original link telling you about the light rail being planned inside the Dequindre Cut. Challenge the planners abouth their idea and watch them Zing your butt out of the room.

[Bearinabox]

Bearinthebox was concern about the lack of scenery that riders would view through the windows of the lightrail train had it ran through the Dequindre Cut for the Dequindre Cut is below ground. I had remind him that the subways in New York go through tunnels and while in that tunnel you cant see anything. The only thing that the passengers on the subway cares about is getting from point A to point B. They could care less about seeing trees and landscape on their' journey to or from.

Not scenery, for chrissakes. Where the hell did you get that I was concerned about scenery? I'm talking about proximity to destinations and potential for spin-off development. A subway line running under Woodward would be ideal if we had the money.

[Bearinabox]

The system will have stopping points just like any other subway doesnt. It could stop at the New Center and other stops on it's way to Pontiac. HELLO.

No, it couldn't, because the Dequindre Cut doesn't go anywhere near New Center. This is my point.

[casscorridor]

is it neccesary that light rail extend to Pontiac? It seems a little far.

I'd be perfectly happy if light-rail extended only Fairgrounds and thats it. MAYBE, to Ferndale or Royal Oak. Especialy to have the Zoo connection!! So no further than Royal Oak. I'm my plans I always had it terminating at Birmingham, I thought the commuter rail station would be too far away, so a light-rail station would be needed, but feeder bus service would be improved, and I doubt Bham will suffer, its not like everyone who goes there does drive, minus the workers who come in on bus.

[stasu1213]

I still would be surprise if groundbreaking starts this spring or summer. The thought of any type of transit outside of the busses in the so-called MOTOR CITY any time in the next couple of years make me shake my head. The idea had been kicked around for 40 yrs or so. I still say that the politicians in Michigan in the last 20 yrs or so palms were greased by anything that has to do with the big 3. The big 3 don't like competition. From the governor to city council members. From the congressmen or women to the mayor, all had a role in keeping mass transit out of Michigan including Detroit. Coleman Young is no exception

[dtowncitylover]

I still would be surprise if groundbreaking starts this spring or summer. The thought of any type of transit outside of the busses in the so-called MOTOR CITY any time in the next couple of years make me shake my head. The idea had been kicked around for 40 yrs or so. I still say that the politicians in Michigan in the last 20 yrs or so palms were greased by anything that has to do with the big 3. The big 3 don't like competition. From the governor to city council members. From the congressmen or women to the mayor, all had a role in keeping mass transit out of Michigan including Detroit. Coleman Young is no exception

Really? You make it seem like the politicians' pockets are lined with money from the Big 3. The Big 3 are not big enough anymore to bribe politicians against mass transit. The Big 3 do not have half the power they did in the 50s/60s/70s.

I've never understood why any of the Big 3 branched out and built streetcars and subway cars. There's millions of dolllars from contracts from cities to made. People will always prefer a car, but why not expand?!

[stasu1213]

Really? You make it seem like the politicians' pockets are lined with money from the Big 3. The Big 3 are not big enough anymore to bribe politicians against mass transit. The Big 3 do not have half the power they did in the 50s/60s/70s.

I've never understood why any of the Big 3 branched out and built streetcars and subway cars. There's millions of dolllars from contracts from cities to made. People will always prefer a car, but why not expand?!

Because street cars and subway cars last longer than private cars which will break down often. Not only do the Big 3 make money off the new cars themselves but when owners bring their cars in for service.. Subways and streetcars lasts longer and ran by electricity not gasoline[[oil). If they invest in subways and streetcars, people in michigan would depened on them for transportation instead of these little biofueled hybrids that the big 3 are trying to push on us. You are correct. The Big 2 doenst have the power that they use to have but locally I would not be surprise the the mayor and others had bent over backwards to keep GM headquarters downtown incuding slowing up the process of lightrail in detroit. Ask yourself why do Detroiters have to drive out into the suburban areas to shop at a decent market, retail, and popular chain restaurants. I will go on the limb and say that Detroit just need a good bus service with rarely used streets designated for express busses and cabs only. Money that is being wasted on endless research on transit could be used for a good bus system[[regional0 and lanes or streets set aside for busses only.

[Russix]

^That's the biggest and most easily identifible part of our problem. We've tried to use busses in place of any heavier forms of transit and it's hurt us so badly that the damage is probably terminal. No Transit, No City. Example: Detroit.

[stasu1213]

I thought that the People Mover's original plan was to go up Woodward at least to 8mile rd. If so, what happened to that plan?

[casscorridor]

I thought that the People Mover's original plan was to go up Woodward at least to 8mile rd. If so, what happened to that plan?

I think there was an idea or proposal to expand the people mover, but never a real plan. The people mover came from the Carter administration's program to build urban mass transit systems, which built DC's system. Since Suburban and city leaders coyldnt cooperate with each other, the funding never cam through to Detroit. Another federal program built the People Mover in 1987.

There is a lot of hate on the people mover, but i love how efficient and frequent it is, and clean and easy to use. Vancouver's system uses People Mover technology, and it is more than just a loop downtown. I dont see why Detroit couldnt do the same. Yes to ligh-rail, but does that mean people mover is out of the question?? I think it is a great technology, and is comparable to heavy-rail transit in NYC or Chicago... only more modern.

What corridors could use People Mover? There has been the idea of Midtown/New Center, but what about West Vernor, through mexicantown and southwest side? The street on vernor is too narrow for suface rail, so it will be near impossible to improve transit past busses unless a subway/elevated was built. This is one of the densest areas of the city.

[Tig3rzhark]

I think there was an idea or proposal to expand the people mover, but never a real plan. The people mover came from the Carter administration's program to build urban mass transit systems, which built DC's system. Since Suburban and city leaders coyldnt cooperate with each other, the funding never cam through to Detroit. Another federal program built the People Mover in 1987.

There is a lot of hate on the people mover, but i love how efficient and frequent it is, and clean and easy to use. Vancouver's system uses People Mover technology, and it is more than just a loop downtown. I dont see why Detroit couldnt do the same. Yes to ligh-rail, but does that mean people mover is out of the question?? I think it is a great technology, and is comparable to heavy-rail transit in NYC or Chicago... only more modern.

What corridors could use People Mover? There has been the idea of Midtown/New Center, but what about West Vernor, through mexicantown and southwest side? The street on vernor is too narrow for suface rail, so it will be near impossible to improve transit past busses unless a subway/elevated was built. This is one of the densest areas of the city.

The people mover should be expanded through the spokes of Detroit. There is enough empty space to do it in some areas. However, there isn't enough money in Detroit to finance such an expansion and there is barely any cooperation between the city and suburbs to expand.

Because the current people mover is headed by the Detroit Transit Corporation, a city corporation, there is little confidence that it could be better ran by it, should expansion be made.

There would have to be a regional authority in charge of it in order for the suburbs to accept that it can be ran properly yet alone for the expansion of the people mover to even be made possible. Some of the rail-cars would have to be ran manually instead of it being ran automatically like the current loop is being done.

However, it seems like it will never happen considering the people mover is unable to go anywhere but within the CBD. The technology is expensive to maintain, by the city alone, and the suburbs have yet to show that they would be willing to take part in any expansion yet alone pay for the maintanence.

[ghettopalmetto]

I think there was an idea or proposal to expand the people mover, but never a real plan. The people mover came from the Carter administration's program to build urban mass transit systems, which built DC's system. Since Suburban and city leaders coyldnt cooperate with each other, the funding never cam through to Detroit. Another federal program built the People Mover in 1987.

The Downtown People Mover program was a product under the Ford administration, which offered to construct a DPM for any large city that wanted it. Detroit and Miami were the only takers, which should tell you something about the robustness of the technology.

Frankly, I think you're out of your mind if you think the DPM technology could move as many people as the Chicago L or NYC Subway. The reason you don't see more DPMs throughout the world is because traditional rail technology moves more people at a lower cost.

The Washington Metro was already under construction by the time Ford took office. Planning for that system began in the late 1950s.