Dearborn Student Controversy

[jcole]

Makes sense, Eno. Gotta say I agree. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. School administrators love to soften up kids so they don't know their real rights. I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it. Decorum is the mask of cowardice.

Minors don't have a full set of civil rights, at least in school. The school may act in loco parentis.
Here's a link to Civil Rights of minors:
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html

[Det_ard]

Maybe it's just me, but I think that if these were white students in suburbia somewhere, it wouldn't have been made into this big a deal, hence the discussion about including the students race in the article.

It seems that nowadays, everyone is looking for someway to take offense to something. When I attended Wc3, I wore a shirt proclaiming 9-11 an inside job. Classmates thought it was awesome and my professors congratulated me for exercising my first amendment rights without fear. Some lady said she thinks these kids should be expelled from school, denied their basic right to an education because they chose to display their school spirit in a way that offended a few lightweights. These kids have so few rights in this country that they become fodder for over controlling parents and authority figures looking for any means to make examples of those who step out of line. What the hell is this country coming to when we question whether or not to allow a young person, who is already up against the world to make it without ending up in a prison, an education because we don't agree with something they wore on a sweatshirt?

Note to self: WC3 students and faculty may be a few beers short of a six-pack.

[Detroitnerd]

Minors don't have a full set of civil rights, at least in school. The school may act in loco parentis.
Here's a link to Civil Rights of minors:
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html

You're talking to somebody who went to school during the high watermark of students' rights, 1975-1988. We were pretty free to do what we wanted, without security guards, campus policies, etc. The administration was pretty hands-off. We students even had an indoor smoking lounge. Administrators couldn't even censor the student newspaper.

It's kind of a cop-out to talk about what civil rights students don't have, because student activism is what broadened those rights in the first place. I applaud any students who push the boundaries of what's allowed. Freedom: Use it or lose it.

[terryh]

It's amazing what the P.A.T.R.I.OT. Act can do to a couple of Arab-American Muslim teens for Dearborn's Edsel Ford High School who wore a 'Class of 2011' sweat shirt which contain a symbol of '11'. That symbol has windows with the eagle mascot coming toward the '11' symbol which represents the World Trade Towers. It seems to me that as we Americans are still living in fear against Islamofacist terrorism, symbols that represent 9/11 is unacceptable just like the J.P. McCarthy 'witch hunt' trials for would be communists who possess the red star with the hammer and the sickle.

We Americans are starting to get more afraid when we look at Arabs from their holy deserts. We Americans start too see Arabs stereotypically from their radical religion containing the scimitar or the world 'Al-Qaeda, Al-Aqsa and Hamas. Islam means jihad for peace not totem war. Even most Muslims around the world are against racial Islam for it denies the truth from the Holy Qu'ran. Islamofacist terrorist organizations rely on radical imans who twist the Holy Qu'ran telling Muslims that you want reward in heaven you must kill all infidels. Their other [[Allah) could be deguised as Satan,The Devil and millions of Muslims are falling for it.The real Allah does not man to kill others because he says so and its written in his commandments. Islamofacist terrorists are not keeping Allah's laws seriously and they will be falling short in the kingdom if they don't repent right away. They are fighting the losing battle just like a preview to revelations for they will be judge by Jesus in the great white throne on judgement day and might be burn up in their own personal Lake of Fire. I urged all Muslims to stop denying the truth of real [[Allah) and worship him and spirit and truth. All Muslims must know they the human civilazation is changing and they deal with the change. Christians and Jews will gladly help your Islamic culture if you help us first.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Because we all believe in God even though we go through different paths.

In Memoriam Neda Soltani, a great Muslim liberator for all mankind.

Who is the 'we' you are referring to Danny? I side with the many scientists who dont believe in a creator or intervening God.

[terryh]

The students in Dearborn who choose to wear hijabs are fortunate they are allowed to do so. In France where the seperation of church and state is respected, religous symbols are not allowed as a part of attire.....

[jt1]

Does anyone else find some irony in this?

The article states the kids were Arab-American. The people that are outraged at what these kids do would be the first to state that there are no Arab-Americans, only American citizens.

My guess is that these kids were likely born in the US and are American citizens. The same people that are outraged when people claim to be Arab-American are the same ones probably insisting it is relevant in this situation.

[eno]

gnome....those are about the cutest Navajo and Hopi maidens I have ever seen depicted, however the arm-rag in your third pictoral post would never be worn by any code-talker in his right mind.

On the other hand, having had a Catholic school education, Mother Superior never did care for my "God is Acid:" T-shirt or my "Dracula Sucks" protest button, for that matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-G4SOGsLpc

[dookie joe]

Are you saying that we should judge this differently if white students had made these shirts?

Should people have judged the Jena controversy differently had the nooses been made by black kids?

[barnesfoto]

what JT1 said.

[Patrick]

High school kids do stupid shit. Always have and always will. I doubt they knew better so I will give them that. Now, had theey been at college level, then it would be a little different.

[gazhekwe]

The above pictures depict the symbol Whirling Timbers, a popular Native symbol of strength. It was very popular with sports teams, US Military units and the US Corps of Engineers into the 1930s before the true significance of the Nazi movement was fully apparent. Several buildings in downtown Detroit have that symbol on their facade, including the downtown library and the Penobscot Building.

Although the Nazi party adopted the symbol in 1920, it did not come to world attention with its symbolism until Hitler put it on the flag in 1935.

This article discusses early 20th century use of the symbol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western...y_20th_century

[Thames]

I don't think they're stupid kids, I think they knew exactly what they were doing when they designed those hoodies.

They were trying to get a rise out of everyone. Mission accomplished!

[detroitsgwenivere]

I think you're grossly overestimating the "rights" of the students [[see, e.g., the Morse v. Frederick supreme court case from 2007) and grossly underestimating the rights and duties of the high school principal, such as their right to determine what is appropriate for a learning environment and their duty to "teach" students that society finds certain things terribly offensive.

The students apparently told the principal that they "didn't mean any harm" by having the T-shirts made, which makes this sound less like a free speech issue and more like a bunch of dumb kids thinking that they were being clever without realizing they went too far.

Ok dude, let me repeat myself to you since you obviously misread what I said: THESE KIDS HAVE SO FEW RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY. A matter of OPINION not requiring your condescensious citing of legal cases.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Wow...you can't be serious going THERE. If this were a white person in suburbia it wouldn't have been a big deal? Jesus [[no pun intended.)

Sorry, but I fail to get the supposed joke.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Note to self: WC3 students and faculty may be a few beers short of a six-pack.

Note to Self: That's because D tard was busy drinking them with artds....

[MJCMEX]

I liked the way Gnome dropped the N-Bomb in this thread. No internet debate is complete without a nod to everybody's go to bad guys.

I am all for freedom of speech and expression. That does not mean that I have to agree with every offensive thing said in public.

As for the kids and their 9-11 sweath shirt: Really not such a big a deal to me. If however the school considers the sweatshirts a distraction they can ban them as "inappropriate student attire". Public schools are doing more of that all accross the country.

When I was in HS we also had a smoking area, and kids [[myself included) were known to hit a few joints in that same area. Is it still as loose as all that?

[[Now that I am old uncool and out of touch I just don't have much of an idea anymore.)

[detroitsgwenivere]

You don't have to agree with it good buddy.

As for the smoking? Students' wish. It was illegal to smoke within 100 ft of the property when I was in high school [[98'). My school handed out detentions and suspensions if a hall guard could stand on a corner and see you in one direction and the school in the other. That didn't stop us of course. I barely remember high school.

[MJCMEX]

You don't have to agree with it good buddy.

As for the smoking? Students' wish. It was illegal to smoke within 100 ft of the property when I was in high school [[98'). My school handed out detentions and suspensions if a hall guard could stand on a corner and see you in one direction and the school in the other. That didn't stop us of course. I barely remember high school.

Isn't it interesting how times change? Now the anti tobacco fascist rule the schools and regulate things more strictly from the left than they ever were from the right when I was a kid.

[Danny]

Who is the 'we' you are referring to Danny? I side with the many scientists who dont believe in a creator or intervening God.

ALL OF US! even though most of us don't believe in God. God exists for some of us have seen its miracles.

[eno]

I'm with terryh. You can count me out of that club too. As Howlin' Wolf would say, I Ain't Superstitious.

[bartock]

Sorry, but I fail to get the supposed joke.

Guess I didn't need the disclaimer, then.

[maxx]

Danny:

I think you mean Sen. Joseph R. McCarthy who presided over the red scare trials of the 1950s. J.P. McCarthy was a local radio personality who don't think had anything to do with Sen. McCarthy's circus in Washington.

Secondly, your belief in a god that burns people in a lake of fire is very troubling. Such a god is sadistic and such a belief is dehumanizing.

You're right that most muslims cannot read Arabic and must rely on their imams for an interpretation of the Quran. Unfortunately, the Quran does contain a number of verses that do not need twisting to convey very unfriendly attitudes towards infidels.

[maxx]

AS for the ethnic identifying, I think it's a case where either way, whether the kids were ethnically identified or not, someone would get upset. Damned if you do; damned if you don't.