Have We* Hit the Bottom?

[skyl4rk]

No, we have not hit bottom.

The City of Detroit is working on reducing expenses and eliminating deficits, but the massive cuts in city employment needed to do this have not happened yet.

The State of Michigan balanced their budget using stimulus money, and did not address the huge deficit they are running. The state must also cut services and employees in a big way, as we can no longer afford the services it provides.

In addition, the state is funding the City of Detroit in a way that other cities and regions feel are unfair, so it is likely that the next governor will cut revenue sharing and other state funding to the City of Detroit.

The problem of declining property tax base will continue, fueled by inadequate services [[police protection, mainly), and crime, both real and perceived. This will decrease the property tax base, further eroding the city's ability to fund services through property taxes.

The root problems of poor services and high taxes in the COD will not be able to be addressed in the current budget. The COD will be reacting to State of Michigan cuts to funding in the next budget, so it is unlikely that any reorganization can take place to improve services. The COD will be in consolidation mode for at least 2 years, probably much more as property values decline.

[Danny]

If Detroit hits rock bottom. I'm waiting for corporate recievership to take over all city government.

[Buy American]

IMHO, maybe the Japanese, Germans, Chinese or Koreans can help,,,after all, Michiganders as well as the rest of the U.S. have supported their auto industry and kept it strong while the Big 3 have taken a huge hit; thus Detroit is in the crapper. This analogy sounds super simple but the truth is the truth.
Incidentally, don't bother to react to my statement with arguments about the Big 3....this statement is IMHO.

[izzyindetroit]

I dedicate this to this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdXdsF08SWQ

[Ocean2026]

In general during recessions people are less likely to move from cities. Cities that have lost population may once again do so when people are ready to venture out.

[chico]

I've tried to be optimistic at every corner over the last 40 years, but sadly, I say No.

[MCP-001]

One needs to look no further than today's headlines on why we haven't hit bottom yet.

Detroit is $300-million in the hole, and is borrowing $250 of that to plug the hole.

I'm not even going to touch the $3-billion Lansing is in hock for with next year's budget.

This is simply unsustainable.

Until enough people take off their rose-colored glasses that are in vogue nowadays, the final crash won't be pretty.

[MJCMEX]

Has anyone given thought to privatizing more things?

For example you have a bunch of people out of work.
You have a bunch of houses for sale under 10 K
You have a bunch of theft and vandalism.

But you have a bunch of hungy real estate agents who want to sell houses to people like me who would rather own outright than pay mortgage, even if it means relocating to a city with some obvious problems. Buyers arond the world are willing to invest in Detroit.

Instead of just waiting for the city to hire more cops or better cops why not reach out to some of the people out of work and form more private patrol companies.

Hell they could work on commission, and if they are homeless give them places to stay while the houses are being repaired.

Does this seem too optomistic???

[Retroit]

Maybe a bit unrealistic.

First, nothing is preventing people from selling homes. No privatization is needed. People just don't want to live here, at least not in numbers great enough to buy all existing abandoned housing.

And second, having a privatized police force might not go over well with the police officers' union [[Detroit Police Officers Association).

[MJCMEX]

It would seem as though the unions, the Auto Union, The City Workers Union, etc ARE part of the problem.

When a guy is paid $72 an hour to stick a bolt into a car door sooner or later there is going to be a problem with cost control.

I have said before on this fourm that I am all for reasonable workers rights, but not bloated overpaid salaries for doing nothing.

Also: I know for a fact that real estate agents are moving houses just like the one I bought so obviously there is a market. It just depends upon how you look at it.

I sure didn't come here to bicker however. I want to be part of what helps the city instead of complaining. I am also not suggesting a privatized police force per se. But, it seems to me that a company that offers private property protection to real estate investors wold and could be successful especially in an area suffering form such high unemployment numbers.

[smudge pot]

We hit bottom. And it's not so bad, there's a lot left, and we're in damage-control mode. A city built for two million, settling out at 700,000. Let's protect what we have, and be damn happy we have so much to protect.

Seriously, why was the Ren-Cen ever built? As a monument to some latter-day pharaoh? Tear it down, push it into the river, fill the real buildings [[incl. the faux-deco Comerica).

In the Old West, bounties were placed on the heads of coyotes, wolves, etc. In the New Detroit, place bounties on abandoned homes, let the people take care of it themselves. Sorry, I'm getting excited.

[MJCMEX]

We hit bottom. And it's not so bad, there's a lot left, and we're in damage-control mode. A city built for two million, settling out at 700,000. Let's protect what we have, and be damn happy we have so much to protect.

Seriously, why was the Ren-Cen ever built? As a monument to some latter-day pharaoh? Tear it down, push it into the river, fill the real buildings [[incl. the faux-deco Comerica).

In the Old West, bounties were placed on the heads of coyotes, wolves, etc. In the New Detroit, place bounties on abandoned homes, let the people take care of it themselves. Sorry, I'm getting excited.

You have a right to get excited.

I see Detroit like that as you do. It's still there. People want affordable housing. There are empty houses all over Detroit, and people from outside the city are already buying them.

Why not maximize that?

[putnam]

Yes. I mean, 'yes.'

[Lowell]

It seems that this poll has settled in to a 2-1 no vs. yes opinion.

While the question is different from the Washington Post, it does seem to slightly fly in the face of that finding.

A steadfast optimism, however, shines through the poll. A large majority of residents expect that things will get better, with 63 percent optimistic about the area's future and the same percentage expecting their finances to improve over the next decade.

> source

Obviously one could both think we haven't hit bottom and believe things will get better. The actual poll question is very, very general.

Considering everything, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of the Detroit area?

> source

From the above comments it seems that the no's are far more vocal than than the yea's. Since this is unscientific does it mean that those who see the glass half empty are simply more vehement and assertive of their opinions?

[East Detroit]

From the above comments it seems that the no's are far more vocal than than the yea's. Since this is unscientific does it mean that those who see the glass half empty are simply more vehement and assertive of their opinions?

I think that is true, and I think you see that in many of the posts on this forum, not just this poll.

[Pam]

When a guy is paid $72 an hour to stick a bolt into a car door

They aren't.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Lowell
From the above comments it seems that the no's are far more vocal than than the yea's. Since this is unscientific does it mean that those who see the glass half empty are simply more vehement and assertive of their opinions?

I think that is true, and I think you see that in many of the posts on this forum, not just this poll.

If anything an "unscientific" poll on a site that leans to the "booster" side of things would come to the opposite result. you seem to ignore the other possibility--- that the 'nos' might be correct.

with regard to the results, would it not follow that those who want to see the most change are going to be most forthright about the problems and least tolerant of those who wish to acquiesce to the status quo?

[Sstashmoo]

We will not recover until trade is addressed and policies implemented that protect domestic interests - like every other country on the planet has. US industry has been left to the hounds by our politicians and their lobbyists. Employers/businesses are still dropping like flies because of unfair trade policies, anyone that thinks we're on the verge of recovery is not being honest about it, or simply lives in lala-land. We're on the verge of becoming another casualty of history.

Our "President" promised ad nausea that he would address this if elected, he isn't doing jacksh*t about it.

There is no "we" or "the rest of them" in this matter. Detroit will not heal until the issues plaguing our nation are addressed. Detroit is just an epicenter, a meter displaying result.

[Retroit]

Lowell, I think it has a lot to do with the question. If you ask people for their optimism/pessimism, they are likely to give a more personal, emotional response that will self-portray themselves as a positive, hopeful person. If you ask them to measure the distance from the bottom, they are likely to give a more realistic, objective assessment of the general economic environment.

[MJCMEX]

They aren't.

Not any more.

[jackie5275]

I think Sstashmoo is correct in addressing the trade issue. We are producing hardly anything anymore, & most of our purchases come from items produced internationally. Until this is rectified, I see no improvement. We can use only so many services repeatedly until we no longer have the need for such services. Service industries can only provide for a small amount of what we need. The production of consumables is what needs to be brought back here, not just Detroit, or Michigan, but the whole United States. However, greed & self interest are at the very root it all. Until that emotion is removed or at least lessened, we can't get any kind of protectionist action taking place. We will continue on the road we've been travelling.

[Pam]

Not any more.

They never did.

[Mikeg]

When a guy is paid $72 an hour to stick a bolt into a car door sooner or later there is going to be a problem with cost control......

I sure didn't come here to bicker however. I want to be part of what helps the city instead of complaining

If you really wanted to be a part of the solution, you'd have picked up on Pam's correction, educated yourself and apologized for spreading the myth of union auto workers getting paid $72/hr. Instead, your flippant "Not any more" response just reveals your ignorance and undercuts any sincerity there might be in the rest of your postings.

[Retroit]

That $72/hour figure has been thrown around by national commentators. It was the total amount that the Big3 were spending on employee wages and benefits divided by the number of employee-hours worked. It was used by union opponents to point out how much more American auto-workers make in relation to their American workers in foreign-owned US factories [[I believe the figure thrown out for them was around $40).

Unfortunately, what was never explained was that this $72 figure also included retired employees as well as older and/or longer serving employees, something that foreign auto companies have not had to deal with.

...yet!

[Det_ard]

If anything an "unscientific" poll on a site that leans to the "booster" side of things would come to the opposite result. you seem to ignore the other possibility--- that the 'nos' might be correct.

with regard to the results, would it not follow that those who want to see the most change are going to be most forthright about the problems and least tolerant of those who wish to acquiesce to the status quo?

That's the most insightful thing I've read today.

I didn't vote in the poll, but I'm optimistic personally, but quite sure things haven't hit bottom yet for the region.