Why would anyone come to Detroit?

[wazootyman]

For a region so self-conscious of its image, so concerned about what the rest of the world thinks...it never ceases to amaze me that the biggest Detroit haters live right in the region. What gives?

Having volunteered for a number of events in the city, it's always been pleasant to hear out-of-towners, particularily first-time visitors, comment on how much fun they're having, and how much nicer the city is than they we lead to believe. I had my wedding and reception in Detroit this past August. Much of her family from the west side of the state hadn't been to Detroit in many, many years. We hear first and second-hand nothing but glowing reviews.

I've always avoided the bad parts of NYC and Chicago in my travels; I don't much care to see them. I know they exist, people know bad areas of Detroit exist. Why are we so hung-up on emphasizing the bad to potential visitors? Tourism and positive attitudes, even if overly optimistic, do nothing but good for the city.

[larrym]

I came to Detroit this week to bury my mother. Now she is gone I have no plans to ever return, my sisters want to see me they can come to my house. It seriously breaks my heart to remember the Detroit of my youth and see it today.

[Scratch]

MoparDan, you have so many great ideas! Isn't the simplest solution is the best, at least for starting out? Do we ever know all the pertinent details to a project before it's begun?

It's hard to relate living in a different region, and part of the reason Detroit fascinates me is it could be a warning to the rest of the country. It could also be hope, that a major city can survive such a loss on all sides, and come back beautful. Detroit was 4th largest in America, and got hit by a perfect storm. It could potentially happen anywhere, especially places tied up in one or two industries.

[MoparDan]

If Detroit has any failing it has been the failure to effectively market itself. But when you have a city with a local media and so many of its citizens going out of their way to punch themselves in the face, it would be a difficult task for even the best PR agency in the world.

This is one version of a saying I've heard:
"There are no bad ideas, just bad marketing."
I have to say that any time I've mentioned visiting Detroit, most people react like my wife initially did: "Do you want to get killed?". Like Wazootyman said, when you visit another city, you stay out of the areas where crime is most likely or does occur. I've worked with people who want to visit San Antonio; I advise them where they can go, where to avoid & what time they need to head back to their hotel room. Otherwise they increase their chances of becoming a statistic. Detroit, I'm sure, is no different.
Getting back to my point, y'all do have a serious image problem to the majority of people down here. Whether it's true or not, it's easy enough for people to believe it's a gritty, crime-ridden cesspool. My apologies, but you know where I'm coming from. Look at New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina: talk about everyone being down on the city, some of deserved, some of it not. But it's managed to steadily recapture its image of a vibrant city again & PR program to get people to show up. I realize this is not directly comparable to Detroit, but it shows it can be done.

For a region so self-conscious of its image, so concerned about what the rest of the world thinks...it never ceases to amaze me that the biggest Detroit haters live right in the region. What gives?

We have naysayers/haters/critics here too; they're in every part of the country. You just have to overcome their attitude. It's much easier to be negative because it doesn't require any imagination or thought. You can always point out the bad in any situation; taking the initiative to come up with a solution requires work. And even if you do have ideas for rectifiying the problem, those people will STILL gripe & complain. To hell with them if they're not going to be part of the process.

I looked at the Woodward Cruise site to get some basic information about it. I realize it's a one-day event but are there any other things going on in the days leading up to it? I'm talking about live music, carnival, etc. Since it attracts so many people & pumps $50mil[[2007 estimate) into the local economy, other activities could come into play adding more revenue. Hell, I know my wife would pay $10-20 for a tour ride of historical residences. She could do that while I run off to an assembly plant for a tour. Just sayin'!

[LodgeDodger]

I came to Detroit this week to bury my mother. Now she is gone I have no plans to ever return, my sisters want to see me they can come to my house. It seriously breaks my heart to remember the Detroit of my youth and see it today.

Sorry to hear of your Mother's passing.

[MoparDan]

MoparDan, you have so many great ideas! Isn't the simplest solution is the best, at least for starting out? Do we ever know all the pertinent details to a project before it's begun?

It's hard to relate living in a different region, and part of the reason Detroit fascinates me is it could be a warning to the rest of the country. It could also be hope, that a major city can survive such a loss on all sides, and come back beautful. Detroit was 4th largest in America, and got hit by a perfect storm. It could potentially happen anywhere, especially places tied up in one or two industries.

Scratch, I have to admit, I'm just one guy who's trying to brainstorm on his own. Sometimes the best solution is the simplest...why overdo it when you really don't have to? A "Rube Goldberg Machine" comes to mind. I've had to work on complicated projects, therefore bringing in people from other areas of our agency to make sure I have the full picture; it can help simplify the process & solution. I may have expertise in one area, but rely on others to educate me of their situation & assist in making sure what I'm proposing has the positive impact I'm trying to achieve. From my own personal experience, setting up networks across our campus. Trust me, you get people in there looking out for their own interests & nothing else; when the majority buy in & contribute, it makes the project go much smoother. Communication & coordination are extremely important. If either of those break down it can lead to disastrous results.

On your second paragraph, you make a very good point. The Central Texas area has been exploding for years with a population influx. The past two years should have been a wakeup call as we went through an "extradordinary" drought. We have a finite resource of water; I'm afraid we'll experience another one & the impact around here could be devastasting. While Dallas has also grown, I had to deal with an agency in the downtown area. It's interesting that the neighborhood we drove through has a street called Grand Avenue.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...09602&t=h&z=17
The original owners are gone & many of the houses fell into disrepair. I don't know what the circumstances were that caused it. I was told the city had begun tearing some of them down a few years ago because they'd become crack houses, derelicts were living in them & so on. Sounds like some of the things people on here have written about, although this Dallas neighborhood is on a smaller scale. I bet portions of the Metro Houston area were hit hard during the 80s due to the Oil Glut & people just walked away from their homes.
I read postings on the old site before ever making my first one. I was very concerned about the US Auto Industry & the effect it would have on not only Detroit residents but the entire Midwest region. I live in an area of the country, to be quite honest, could give a flying **** about what's happening up there. Yet, they still drive trucks made by Ford, Dodge & Chevy/GMC. Talk about oblivious.
I wish I had an answer or solid solution to what's ailing not only Detroit, but other towns/cities/regions impacted by the post-industrial age. We used to have a robust PC & IC engineering, processing & manufacturing base here; not anymore, although the city still has a lot of high tech. If it weren't for higher-ed like UT & being the state capitol, well, it wouldn't be as nice as it is now.
Probably much of what I'm suggesting or hypothesizing is simplistic. I do believe it has to start at the grass roots level; no doubt there will be bumps & setbacks along the route. Detroit may never be like it was, but I'm sure that a group of determined everyday citizens could be the catalyst to make it better than it is now.
Uh oh...looks like the "Boss" wants me to run to the grocery store.

[MoparDan]

Larry M, my condolences to you & your family.

[Detroit Stylin]

For a region so self-conscious of its image, so concerned about what the rest of the world thinks...it never ceases to amaze me that the biggest Detroit haters live right in the region. What gives?

Majority beyond 8 Mile in all honesty......

[tallboy66]

Well so much for my rah,rah thread.

[R8RBOB]

Well so much for my rah,rah thread.

It was a good thread to start. I love Detroit but people outside only know Detroit by the negative comments that they hear about. I was in Mobile, Alabama many years ago and I was talking to this girl and I told her that I was from the "D." Her words: "you from that bad place." I was insulted. To me Detroit is no worst than the next big city but the attitude from outsiders is that Detroit is Beirut circa 1982.

[Varner313]

Just a thought [[rumor/reality?) in improving Metro Detroit

This is not a bashing of the city that I love, but only a possible idea/solution to the issues that are plaguing the area. I was born and raised in Detroit; I currently live in Cincinnati and I'm trying to start up a ''rumor'' and make it become a reality. With all the recent corruption that has affected the local municipal governments in Detroit AND other cities/suburbs recently, maybe we could have ONE-UNIFIED Government similar to what cities like Indianapolis, Louisville, Jacksonville and Charlotte has done. Also by doing this the population of Detroit would increased to over a million- 1.9 million to be exact. [[Merge Detroit and Wayne-County together) By forming this and making a huge metropolis in the SE Michigan area I think long-term alot of money could be saved. More Police officers could be on the street by this merger, which hopefully [[over time) the crime would go down in the new Detroit-Greater and also Detroit-Inner [[current Detroit) areas. The only issue this could be is with the current Detroit schools-system. [[Look to Indianapolis as reference/resolution) But alot of good could come of this if first people like you and me- all the way up to the government officials can come together and talk about this as adults, and not scream at each other like another healthcare debate in a 'Town-Hall meeting.' Race should also not be involved in this discussion either- as this has been holding the Metro area from truly improving for soo long. Also- could we look into the idea of possibly transforming the Campus-Martius/Cadillac-Square area to resemble Times-Square in NYC? This could bring soo much-needed business back Downtown as we all know ADVERTISMENT SPURS BUSINESS! Put 2-3 Huge Jumbotrons on the west-side of the Cadillac Tower Downtown, that would be such a beautiful sight indeed![[Just imagine it!) Also, since we have embraced the idea of having/being the "Las Vegas of the Midwest", how about putting more strobe-lights/outlining lights on our Downtown skyscrapers at night! That would draw more people downtown.[[Along with the Red Wings getting back to their winning ways) We should really get this idea brewing, hopefully this can get the people of SE Michigan really supporting this ''rumor'' and making this talk/idea become a reality- thank you.

[larrym]

Thank you all

[MichMatters]

Sorry to hear of your Mother's passing.

What is just as sorry to hear is that he sounds like a total ~~~~~~~~~. To exploit the death of a parent to tell us why you're never going to come back to Detroit is the height of repugnance. Stay classy, Larry. Hopefully, your mother rests in peace in spite of this.

[RickBeall]

Hi Larrym,

Sorry to hear about the loss of your mother.

[Retroit]

What is just as sorry to hear is that he sounds like a total ~~~~~~~~~. To exploit the death of a parent to tell us why you're never going to come back to Detroit is the height of repugnance. Stay classy, Larry. Hopefully, your mother rests in peace in spite of this.

The title of the thread is "Why would anyone come to Detroit?" Larrym, who I presume is an "anyone", gave his reason. I don't see the exploitation, just a simple, honest, heartfelt answer.

tallboy66:Well so much for my rah,rah thread.

If that is what you wanted, you should have been more explicit. I presumed you wanted an honest answer on why people come to Detroit. Perhaps you could have asked: "What are the feel-good, rah-rah tourist traps in Detroit?"

[MoparDan]

Well so much for my rah,rah thread.

If that is what you wanted, you should have been more explicit. I presumed you wanted an honest answer on why people come to Detroit. Perhaps you could have asked: "What are the feel-good, rah-rah tourist traps in Detroit?"

That's what I don't understand. I looked at the title of the thread & since I'm "anyone", I gave "outsider" views of why I would come to Detroit; I included the sentiments of people in my region of the country. On top of it, I gave examples, which I admit appear simplistic, that could be taken into consideration to attract tourists. Possibly even follow-on effects of people wanting to relocate. I'm basing those on what I've seen occur here in my community; they may not be one-to-one comparisons, but when you're trying to resolve a situation, you need to be open to anything that is remotely feasible. I offer no "silver bullet" solution because it will take more than that.
Tell me, an outsider, why I should come up there & visit. I told you a few of my reasons as well as how my wife would go. Lets's face it, I wrote a few novels in the process.
I know people here who enjoy all sorts of good live music, dancing, food[[BBQ/Steaks/Seafood for instance), historical districts, museums, festivals/carnivals, sports, fishing, hunting, activities for their children...you get the idea. They're just like most people anywhere; you have to package it as an entire deal. Not only that you have to promote a positive image of the city & convince people they should at least give Detroit/SE Michigan a look. People are lazy, even with the Internet, chances are they won't actually take the time to research; you have to grab their attention & hold it.
If you want "rah rah" here's your chance to do it. But do it with meaning.
I'm off my soapbox.

[Hermod]

See, you moving to an old argument which is all the upscale shopping and services moved to the suburbs leaving the residents of Detroit with substandard or no services at all.

Precisely. Now, why do other cities which also have burgeoning suburbs still have upscale shopping and services plus substantial business towers downtown?

Detroit has substantial office districts out northwest of the city limits and out on 15 mile while the best shopping malls are on 15 mile and on M59.

In another city, there would be many upscale downtown hotels and the Broderick tower would be full of offices.

[Retroit]

...why do other cities which also have burgeoning suburbs still have upscale shopping and services plus substantial business towers downtown?

But how far do the upscale customers in those cities travel to get to those upscale downtown stores? How does downtown Detroit compare to other cities in number of upper-income residents?

I think there is a "tipping point". An upscale store, or grouping of upscale stores, need a certain mass, or core, of upscale shoppers living in relative proximity.

Or am I wrong; are upscale shoppers in other cities more willing to trek all the way downtown to go shopping?

And, would more downtown hotels and office towers be enough to sustain upscale downtown stores, or do you need downtown residents?

[MJCMEX]

I am somewhat reluctant to post again because it seems as though everytime I do someone is ready to shove everything that is wrong with Detroit down my throat. So if that happens again after this post it will be my last.

That is not however going to stop me from moving here.

My first visit to the city was last Novemeber. I too was fully expecting some decaying cesspool and I was very skeptical about purchasing property. I got in late at night and stayed at a no nonsense but perfectly safe Comfort Inn on Jefferson. The Real Estate agent I saw had his office in St. Clair.

The next morning I drove along the waterfront, starting out in a gritty part of town. I was amazed at the beauty of the old buildings, even the burned out ones. As I kept going I hit the water and saw some of the most beautiful scenery I have seen in any city, and I have been to New York, Philly, San Fransico, Boston, Europe... etc. It was so beautiful that my eyes started to tear up.

And I also saw some of the rough parts of town on the east side because my agent was trying to show me both the good and bad potential purchases. I was saddend by the streets with 5 or 6 houses in a row burned to the ground, but again struck by the beauty of the neighborhoods with all refurbishes houses.

Are there problems? Yes there are. Nevertheless the breath taking beauty of what was and the potential of what could be again convinced me that I was not throwing my money away.

I really hope that is enough for those of you who are convinced that it's the worst place in the world. A skeptical outsider was actually seduced by the physical beauty of what remains enough to relocate here.

[English]

English, in those Third World cities that you have been to, how many homes and buildings that have been burnt out for years did you see? How many acres of empty overgrown fields in the middle of the city did you see? How many kids with $100 jeans hanging half-way down their thigh did you see? How many brand new Cadillac Escalades parked outside of homes that haven't received any maintenance in many years did you see?

It is not so much the lack of wealth that is the problem in Detroit. It is the lack of community, the lack of family, the lack of personal responsibility. A parent in a Third World may sell their child into slavery or child-prostitution, but those same parents living in Detroit would never consider not ensuring that their child was in school and that their pants were pulled up.

Yes, people from Third World countries would consider it a privilege to move to Detroit. But how long would they put up with it before moving to the suburbs?

Nothing in your post refuted anything that I said. I have friends from the Third World, and I am so very grateful to have grown up deep in the heart of the city of Detroit with salt of the earth, working-class roots, a world class education, and a strong sense of who I am and why I'm here in the world. I learned to garden from my grandmother, who kept an impeccable home for 40 years on the near West Side until her health failed, and I certainly have maintained every home I've ever lived in. I don't own an Escalade, and neither do any of my hardworking Detroit relatives. None of those who have remained in Detroit have college degrees, but they work hard protecting this city on the police force, delivering mail, and working in retail and service jobs. A few are or have been entrepreneurs. We love our city, our state, and our nation, and have served proudly in its wars.

I grew up south of 5 mile, so according to your conventional wisdom I am a pink elephant or a flying unicorn... I don't exist. And yet, I am as much a Detroiter as the stereotypes you list. I knew more Detroiters like us during my formative years than that other kind, and I was born 10 years after the riots. I suppose we lived in another dimension from everyone else, then.

People come to Detroit out of curiosity. Almost everyone I've had even a nodding acquaintance with from undergrad and from my sci-fi/fantasy geekdom has come up to visit, and enjoyed their time here. Several made it an annual tradition to spend a week in Detroit during the summer... people from desirable places like Chicago, DC, Virginia, New York, Tennessee, and California.

As always, I believe that I must live in a different world than many on DYes. Economic disinvestment and a lack of emphasis on higher education suddenly makes Detroit the equivalent of Juarez, Pyongyang, or Mogadishu. Fine, then. Believe what you will. I'm done with this illogical conversation.

[kryptonite]

Friends have visited me here in Detroit from Tennessee, England, DC, Washington, Illinois, Maryland, Ohio, Missouri, Alabama, New York, Florida, and a few other places and all have enjoyed their stay here.

Places we visted included the Westin hotel, Greektown, the Fisher Bldg, DIA, Canada, historic churches, historic neighborhoods, Downtown, the riverfront, the casinos, old neighborhood bars, old restaurants, the Guardian Bldg, the Fox Theater, Redford Theater, the MOT, various festivals, the Ren Cen [[sucks nowadays though), baseball and hockey games, etc. My friends from England were amazed that Canada was so close to my home, we spent an afternoon driving around Windsor and along Lake St. Clair in Ontario.

There are many great tours and trips to be made in Detroit. Our riverfront keeps improving and the downtown nightlife is quite good nowadays. All of my visiting friends and family have left with good impressions of the city.

[Downtown Lady]

I am somewhat reluctant to post again because it seems as though everytime I do someone is ready to shove everything that is wrong with Detroit down my throat. So if that happens again after this post it will be my last.

Hi MJCMEX,

Please don't let the negativity discourage you. I personally enjoy your posts, your enthusiasm, your positive attitude, and also your humor [["if I'm not murdered when I do the walk-through of my house, I'll report back to you", after people kept telling you how dangerous the city is).

I have loved and lived in Detroit my entire life and was happy to find this forum. By nature I am enthusiastic, positive-thinking, and a glass-half-full kind of person. As such, sometimes this forum can be difficult for me, because I'm not thick-skinned and I love the city, and often positive energy and enthusiasm are mocked, and the negative energy is pervasive. It gets to where I hesitate to post anything because someone will have a nasty comment in reply.

I've read the forum for years and posted previously for about six months, and then took a break, because the negative energy wears on me. I've just rejoined, so hope springs eternal. It almost feels like some on the forum want everyone to hate the city as much as they do, and if you don't, you must be an idiot. I have decided to just let them stew in their negative energy and not let them drag me down into it. Anyway, even if you do get another negative response, please don't let it be your last post because then the negative energy wins. There is much, much more good than bad about this forum, and it really is very informative and entertaining.

The next morning I drove along the waterfront, starting out in a gritty part of town. I was amazed at the beauty of the old buildings, even the burned out ones. As I kept going I hit the water and saw some of the most beautiful scenery I have seen in any city, and I have been to New York, Philly, San Fransico, Boston, Europe... etc. It was so beautiful that my eyes started to tear up.

That really is a breathtaking view when you turn the corner and see the water, isn't it? It gets me every single time, even still. [[Assuming you were driving on Jefferson, and hit the water where Jefferson turns to go north?)

[MJCMEX]

Hi Downtown lady. Thank you for your post. It encourages me to stick around.

Yes it was north on Jefferson. What beauty!

I have to say it isn't entirely everyone else just jumping on me. I did post a rather insensitve comment about auto workers salaries which I corrected and apologized for.Can't trust CNN for correct facts anymore I suppose. Once again I apologize to anyone who was offended because of that.

Neverthless I do have to say that there seems to be an ego issue regarding how tough Detroit is:
"Hey newbie You're gonna get killed when you try to move here, we're so tough" etc.

I know Detroit has problems. But believe it or not there are cities with higher muder rates per 100,000 than Detroit. St Louis is one of them, [[61 per 100,000) and you can't buy a house for under 10 K in St Louis.

So the low prices mean that Detroit also offers opportunities. In the computer age there are many who don't have regular 9 to 5 jobs and would not only love to take advantage of the low housing costs. They may not actually be able to qualify for loans in today's economy, but still can make a living in an unconventional way:

This kind of person, an artist, a musician, a computer tech who works from home, is exactly the kind who could be attracted to Detroit.

The people here handing out the negativity enemas are really just defeating themselves if they want to see things improve.

Thank you for being one of the positive people.

[Retroit]

Sorry, English, I didn't mean to offend you personally. I realize there are many good people in Detroit. I was just trying to give the reason why I go into Detroit, which is to see how neighborhoods "age" over time. If Detroit looked like every other middle-class suburb, it wouldn't interest me, quite honestly. I don't think I am alone. One of the main features of this website is to highlight the abandoned ruins of Detroit. It is what drew me here in the first place.

I'll admit, the comparison of Detroit to a "Third-World" country, like the comparison of Detroit to any other place, was inappropriate. I'll keep trying to find a more unobjectionable way of expressing myself.

[PeachLaser]

for the Ford GT40.

Ha Ha. I agree with you. I have NEVER heard Top Gear give an American product a thumbs up like in this video. Here's a page I did years ago and I thought the GT40 was the star also...

http://www.lasersol.com/ford_museum.html