Why would anyone come to Detroit?

[Retroit]

English, in those Third World cities that you have been to, how many homes and buildings that have been burnt out for years did you see? How many acres of empty overgrown fields in the middle of the city did you see? How many kids with $100 jeans hanging half-way down their thigh did you see? How many brand new Cadillac Escalades parked outside of homes that haven't received any maintenance in many years did you see?

It is not so much the lack of wealth that is the problem in Detroit. It is the lack of community, the lack of family, the lack of personal responsibility. A parent in a Third World may sell their child into slavery or child-prostitution, but those same parents living in Detroit would never consider not ensuring that their child was in school and that their pants were pulled up.

Yes, people from Third World countries would consider it a privilege to move to Detroit. But how long would they put up with it before moving to the suburbs?

[RickBeall]

Fabulous housting deals! Seriously!

To live in a big city, with most of the amenities of a big city but without the traffic.

[Redford Kid]

Amenities? Are you joking, I mean really, If you believe that you really need to travel a little.

[Downtown Lady]

MoparDan, I love your positive energy! Good story about the new airman from Detroit -- good for him for speaking up and defending his hometown. Detroit has a lot of problems, but it has a lot of great things as well. Hopefully you and your wife will make that trip.

[EastsideAl]

I've known several people from Europe and Japan who came here to see historic sites in soul, R&B, jazz, and techno music. They are always very surprised to discover that, outside of Hitsville, there's almost no historic notice given to such things around here.

[Ravine]

MoparDan, that was a good post. Rarely, on DetroitYES!, do I see such positive thinking unaccompanied by a blanket refusal to face the facts. Somehow, you achieved that.
And you did not "lecture or patronize." Good job.

[unclefrank]

of the once great US industrial age.

[R8RBOB]

To be truthful, most travelers avoid Detroit not because it is a "crime-ridden, third-world city" but that it is just one of those places you really don't need to see. The misfortune that Detroit has is that Chicago is to their west, Toronto is to the northeast and New York City is east. Let's say a traveler is from Reno and they have the pick to go to Detroit or Chicago which one would they choose? Chi-town all day. Why? Because Chicago is a world class city on par with London, Rome, Paris and New York City but Detroit is just another city on the way to Chicago.

Now I am not knocking my home city but people outside Detroit and Chicago know Chicago because of television, the movies, Al Capone, Michael Jordan, etc...but Detroit they have no idea what to make of it. Sure it is called the Motor City but that title really don't apply in the 21st century and it gained the nickname Motown but Motown left almost 40 years ago.

Places like Chicago, Los Angeles, New York City, San Francisco have their undesirable areas. These cities are not immune to the same problems that Detroit faces. [[Anyone familiar with the Bay Area and know S.F. I have two words for you: Hunter's Point. Here is another. San Jose: Seven Trees) Because Detroit don't have the world city standing that Chicago or Los Angeles has, the bad outweigh the good and Detroit is a third-world city.

When I lived in the Bay Area, no one I talked didn't care if they ever visited Detroit or Michigan in particular. Detroit is just not on the radar though there are things worth visiting. I took pictures of Detroit so that my friends on the west coast could see Detroit as I did. I love Detroit but I admit that if I had my choice between San Diego and Detroit well Detroit, I luv ya' but you have wait a minute.

[MichMatters]

More than any possible reputation or the actual state/ranking of the city is that, and most of Michigan, isn't on a natural road travel route unless you're going to Canada. Being surrounded by lakes and only being accessible from the south'll do that to you. Plenty of smaller, less economically significant areas get more off-the-road travel simply because of their location and proximity to other places.

[Detroit500]

Anyone who is comparing Detroit to San Francisco or New York is insane. While it is true that any city can have it's undesirable portions, the fact is Detroit's "desirable" portions are relatively lacking compared to the desirable ones in New York, SF, Chicago, or LA. Where is the Detroit Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, grocery store, subway system, Tiffanys?

I'd love to see Detroit have a resurgence and have these things, as it has so many wonderful first rate cultural institutions and sports teams, but we're not quite there yet.

[Bcscott]

Food

Eph's [[until recently)
Slows
Traffic Jam
Good Girls Go to Paris
Greektown restaurants
National/American Coney Island

[R8RBOB]

Anyone who is comparing Detroit to San Francisco or New York is insane. While it is true that any city can have it's undesirable portions, the fact is Detroit's "desirable" portions are relatively lacking compared to the desirable ones in New York, SF, Chicago, or LA. Where is the Detroit Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, grocery store, subway system, Tiffanys?

I'd love to see Detroit have a resurgence and have these things, as it has so many wonderful first rate cultural institutions and sports teams, but we're not quite there yet.

I see you have love for Detroit. I do too but the title of this thread is "Why would anyone come to Detroit"

No way was I comparing Detroit to the other cities. You are attempting to create an argument that is a no-win. We know Detroit is no way on the level of a Chicago, San Francisco or New York. That said, if a traveler had a preference to visit a major city in the United States, Detroit would be very low on the list.

Just to be fair, travelers aren't breaking their necks to go to Toledo, OH or South Bend, IN or Green Bay, WI or Buffalo, NY or Pensacola, FL or Huntsville, AL. These cities like Detroit manage because of the residents who live there but they don't expect tourists coming in every year to check out the sights.

[lilpup]

Where is the Detroit Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, grocery store, subway system, Tiffanys?

Why are you assuimg we want all that shit from other places instead of our own systems and stores?

[Whitehouse]

for the Ford GT40.

[detroitsgwenivere]

The Riverfront
Heidleburg
Casinos
Eastern Market

I am not in denial. Myself and thousands like me have "a complete appreciation of all exixsting things....rejoicing in the rugged and barren no less than in the smooth and fertile." -Aleister Crowley

[Detroit500]

Why are you assuimg we want all that shit from other places instead of our own systems and stores?

The point is that there is a lack of more "upscale" shopping and services, which typically result in upscale clients, more tax revenue, etc.

[R8RBOB]

Originally Posted by Detroit500
Where is the Detroit Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, grocery store, subway system, Tiffanys?

Why are you assuimg we want all that shit from other places instead of our own systems and stores?

Actually, Detroit did have a version of Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom. It was called Hudson's

As for the grocery store, well I still miss Farmer Jack's

Detroit should have always had a subway but we needed more cars on the road than better public transportation.

As for Tiffany's, no comment.

[R8RBOB]

The point is that there is a lack of more "upscale" shopping and services, which typically result in upscale clients, more tax revenue, etc.

See, you moving to an old argument which is all the upscale shopping and services moved to the suburbs leaving the residents of Detroit with substandard or no services at all.

[MichMatters]

I honestly don't get it. The faults of Detroit are discussed to death. In fact, that's been the story for, oh, a few decades. So, why is it that anyone would be pissed, and would then have the nerve to try and derail a thread, when someone decides they want to discuss what is left? A handful of these posts have been downright irrelevant to the topic; one or two, in fact, have been nothing more than an attempt to blatantly troll for an equally negative response.

[Scratch]

English and Retroit, you both make excellent points.

Having lived in a rapidly rising tourist destination for 4 years, and worked in a restaurant in Pike Place Market that a scene from "Sleepless in Seattle" was shot in [[you wouldn't believe how many people still care about that if I told you), I have to say that vacationers are not all they're cracked up to be. They do give revenue, but that tends to stay in highly concentrated hotspots, which often lose the reasons they were originally cool by packaging themselves to the tourists. It's an annoying existence, wading through swarms of people who stop suddenly to take a picture or goggle at something I see every day, in a massive urban asset locals mostly shun now with claims of it being a tourist trap.

I really like this thread. My original reason was, they turned us back at the border. I'm so glad. I already wanted to visit again someday, and had a feeling there was plenty more to do than photography and spelunking. I'm just amazed that of all the things on that list, the one I'd heard of doesn't exist anymore.

[davewindsor]

Anyone who is comparing Detroit to San Francisco or New York is insane. While it is true that any city can have it's undesirable portions, the fact is Detroit's "desirable" portions are relatively lacking compared to the desirable ones in New York, SF, Chicago, or LA. Where is the Detroit Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, grocery store, subway system, Tiffanys?
.

You're right, anyone comparing Detroit to other cities is insane because it's an apples to oranges comparison. Detroit has only 138 square miles of land, Chicago has 228 square miles and LA has 498 square miles. So, based on city limit boundaries, it's not a fair comparison.

Where is the Detroit's Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom and Tiffanys? It's in Metro Detroit at Sommerset Mall in Troy at 16 mile. If you were to consolidate the areas northward to match Chicago or Los Angeles and match it for size moving Detroit's city limits to 16 mile, you'd have it. Detroit's statistics would also be radically different if they made it all one city. Even though there's a divide on paper, in reality I can just take my car and drive to those areas in 20 or so minutes. You have 5 million people in metro. You think they just go to bed after work, wake up and go back to work? Metro Detroit does not revolve around downtown Detroit anymore. The area has everything [[except a subway, which most people never use anyway because it's so easy to get around with a car) if you just look.

[R8RBOB]

You're right, anyone comparing Detroit to other cities is insane because it's an apples to oranges comparison. Detroit has only 138 square miles of land, Chicago has 228 square miles and LA has 498 square miles. So, based on city limit boundaries, it's not a fair comparison.

Where is the Detroit's Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom and Tiffanys? It's in Metro Detroit at Sommerset Mall in Troy at 16 mile. If you were to consolidate the areas northward to match Chicago or Los Angeles and match it for size moving Detroit's city limits to 16 mile, you'd have it. Detroit's statistics would also be radically different if they made it all one city. Even though there's a divide on paper, in reality I can just take my car and drive to those areas in 20 or so minutes. You have 5 million people in metro. You think they just go to bed after work, wake up and go back to work? Metro Detroit does not revolve around downtown Detroit anymore. The area has everything [[except a subway, which most people never use anyway because it's so easy to get around with a car) if you just look.

D, no one is comparing Detroit to Chicago or LA. I must repeat that this thread is called "Why would anyone come to Detroit"

Since you wanted to get technical and compare the sq miles between Detroit and Chicago as well as LA, let's compare another city: San Francisco. SF has 47 sq. miles of land and it is land-locked yet it is one of most visited cities in the United States.

Regardless of what Detroit have to offer it will not get the foot traffic that other cities will get and it isn't because of square miles or what stores reside in the city it is that no one really ever sold Detroit as a place to visit. Short story....I worked with a nice lady from Chi-town years ago and she commented that there was nothing to do in Metro Detroit but go shopping. I knew that was not true but for someone coming from out-state they are calling what they have heard and what they aren't seeing.

[ziggyselbin]

A reason to visit Detroit is the history of the city. I am no rah-rah for Detroit. I have long said until Detroit deals in a meaningful conspicuous way with crime it will be a moribund city and it is.

However Detroit has a fascinating history. And much of that history can be experienced simply by driving around and seeing the architecture all over the city. Downtown and midtown have the Guardian and Fisher bldgs respectively_ both as splendid as any NYC or Chicago skyscrapers. In the norther part of the city where development happened later there is a lot of mid century stuff if any fancy that.

My point is that Detroit is a huge city. Sometimes I forget how much is there and it is interesting to experience that from time to time.

Having said that I have no illusions about Detroit; it is a shell of what it once was and that is sad.

[Lowell]

Detroit, which to me always means the entire 5.5 million plus international metropolis of contiguous cities of which the City of Detroit is just one part, has so many attractions. Its four major sport venues, internationality, casinos, festivals, fabulous art collections, theaters, galleries, clubs, restaurants, waterways, parks and more [as described above] far out-class most other cities in US and world.

If Detroit has any failing it has been the failure to effectively market itself. But when you have a city with a local media and so many of its citizens going out of their way to punch themselves in the face, it would be a difficult task for even the best PR agency in the world.

When it comes to Detroit, I like what Ray1936 wrote in another thread, "Wasn't it Thumper who said, 'If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all.' ?"

[MoparDan]

Downtown Lady & Ravine, thank you for your responses. I was glad to see this young airman defend his hometown in a respectful manner. He articulated his point without getting in anyone's face. I'm something of an anomaly to my neighbors because of my interests in automotive history & industry in general. Those are a few of my personal reasons for wanting to visit Detroit.
Most of my active duty time was during the 80s when I met a lot of people from the north. I was in Biloxi for technical training from '84-'85 when it seemed we had a sudden influx of people from Pittsburgh & Allentown. It was sobering listening to their stories of the layoffs & jobs flat out disappearing.
Living here in Texas really doesn't compare to the experience y'all are having up there. The closest would be during the Oil Glut of the 80s when the entire state seemed to be stagnant. We lived in a small duplex community & the neighborhood behind us had a significant number of foreclosures. I think it forced the state to diversify its economy away from heavy dependance on the oil industry.
I'm glad to see some people on here offering constructive ideas & communications. That's a start. True, Detroit may not be at the top of someone's list of tourist destinations. From a different angle concerning the music scene, I'm sure there are festivals or events that draw people in. A few of the major ones we have here in Austin are South by Southwest[[SXSW) & The Austin City Limits Festival[[ACL). I'm not saying Detroit could pull the exact same thing off, but with planning, coordination & promotion, I'm sure a few major regional ones could be put together. I have to plead ignorance if you do that already. It's not a cure all, but it does pull people in & put money into the local economy. I'm surprised about how many move here after attending SXSW or ACL. I understand this is hardly a one-for-one comparison but as I stated, it's just one angle of approach. Granted our climate is completely different than yours; it's easier for someone to adapt to heat than cold when it comes to relocation.
I gather that taxes up there are outrageous. So, that is something that has to be addressed at the local & state level. Y'all have much more intimate knowledge of it than I do, so I won't attempt to expound on it. You do have well-respected universities & I'd believe that has to play a part; keeping the talent from leaving the state.
So much of why people want to go somewhere depends on image, atmosphere & environment. Everyone thinks of Austin as this paradise where everything is just perfect. Another reputation we have is being such a "progressive, liberal city". Hardly, as we are racially segregated by IH-35 cutting through the middle of town. The downtown & immediate neighborhoods were slowly dying & decaying. The suburbs were & are still expanding. The city encouraged dwellings to be built downtown & neighborhoods that were crime-ridden less than 20 years ago have gone through gentrification. Could it be done up there? I don't know. On one thread I posted about a planned community developer that has projects in several cities including ours. DetroitPlanner responded he'd heard of them but stated some reasons why it may not work up there. I wish I could remember the name of the corporation, as it builds affordable housing including shopping & services withing walking distance. A co-worker lives in one & cannot brag enough about it.
With the real estate market how it is up there, some people would have no problem buying a house at a depressed price while having money left over for repairs or restoration. Aside from the job situation there, what would it take to get someone to move there? Is it the crime, schools, environment; all of them & more? All I can do is guess from an outsider's view. That's why I encourage cooperation & communication amongst you.
A small group of people here, ranging from "Joe Sixpack" types to professionals meet on a regular basis to discuss the city's present situation & future. They don't always agree but bring up concerns that need to be addressed. The newspaper did a story on them & it was free publicity. It's not a cure all, but does give the impression that at least SOMEONE has a finger on the pulse of the city. I can't see why some of you on here couldn't put together a local "think tank" to prioritize problems & offer feasible solutions. It may sound like "rah rah" type stuff or oversimplification, but you have to start somewhere. I can tell many here are concerned, love their home & want to something to be done. You may not agree 100% with solutions; however, it gets people thinking on a critical level.
Ok, I'm going to stop with the novel. But I will leave you with this: I can't count how many times I've read where the leadership[[or lack thereof) on all levels is to blame. Maybe it's time for the people to lead. You know the problems better than someone else three of four bureaucratic layers removed from the situation. Get to work.
Everyone have a safe & Happy New Year! I'll give y'all a toast at 11pm CST & midnight CST!