Vigilante, hero, or killer?

**Diehard** · December-29-09, 07:22 PM

http://freep.com/article/20091229/NE...ruder-cops-say

**buildingsofdetroit** · December-29-09, 07:56 PM

“What are you going to do,” Herbert Silas, of Detroit, reportedly asked, his hands still in the air, “shoot me?”
“Absolutely,” the home owner told investigators he’d replied before pulling the trigger, the source said. He hit Silas once in the chest, killing him."

Right. Whatever. This guy watches too many Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.

**Bigb23** · December-29-09, 08:26 PM

The law says "reasonable" force. I'd be mad as hell too, but you can't chase and shoot them away from you're domicile.

Just wait inside, and have at it.

**Zacha341** · December-30-09, 05:32 AM

Yeah, he was angry and with things as they are the robbers family will probably sue him and WIN! I've talked to police officers etc. and some have advised that if you suspect someone in your home, hold up in your "safe" room, and call 911 and explain what is going on, giving your address. Then put the phone down so they are on the phone to hear you get out your gun... preferably a long gun and with the appropriate "rack" effect sound [[which may change the mind of some intruders).

Then, IF the person comes for you you may have to shoot... and it is all recorded on the 911 call for your protection - verifying that it all happened in YOUR HOUSE upon your person. These guys may have been repeat offenders so he should have just waiting in his home for them and used lethal force once they were inside if no other option worked [[alarms, arrival of the police), such a "warning" shot. Though it could be argued that he [[the homeowner or renter) could have been overtaken, but most basic b&e types will flea behind the 'boom' of a SHOT GUN blast even if aimed at the ceiling as a warning shot!

Some who really do not want to shoot to kill, set up a couple of warning shots using small pellet bird shot to perhaps wound or scare the invader - followed by deadly XX buck shot loads... [[if the point has STILL not been made). This is an less-than-lethal option not available with a hand gun. Thus more and more homeowners are legally purchasing shot guns that can accommodate various round types.

Once the person is in your property you have the law on your side here in Michigan. Once you give chase outside of your domain it gets dicey...

Originally Posted by Bigb23

The law says "reasonable" force. I'd be mad as hell too, but you can't chase and shoot them away from you're domicile.

Just wait inside, and have at it.

EastSider · December-29-09, 08:28 PM

Either that, or he's watched enough of life around this dump of a city and just got sick and tired of being a victim.

I think the jury should find him not guilty to send a message to the criminal underclass running the streets and those professional criminals in elected office that Detroit residents aren't going to sit around waiting for someone else to ride to their rescue anymore.

If I were selected, I'd never vote to convict.

**Crumbled_pavement** · December-29-09, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by EastSider

Either that, or he's watched enough of life around this dump of a city and just got sick and tired of being a victim.

I think the jury should find him not guilty to send a message to the criminal underclass running the streets and those professional criminals in elected office that Detroit residents aren't going to sit around waiting for someone else to ride to their rescue anymore.

If I were selected, I'd never vote to convict.

Exactly. It's a huge waste of tax money going to trial and all this other nonsense. The police need to be able to dispense justice on the spot. Person gets caught breaking in someone's house then the burglar should be executed on the spot. Think of how much time, energy, and money could be saved without having to worry about criminal's rights. Criminals are not people and do not deserve the protection of the law. EastSider, I'm glad you're man enough to say it. We need more like you!

**gnome** · December-29-09, 08:32 PM

Not enough info from that article, but a knee jerk opinion would be to convict on a lesser charge. Involuntary manslaughter or some such thing.

I wonder what ever happened to that Asian Fish Market guy who shot and killed the man who was urinating on his building?

**gazhekwe** · December-29-09, 08:34 PM

He shot an unarmed man point blank. I vote killer.

LodgeDodger · December-29-09, 08:42 PM

He should have shot the punk in the nuts. That would have made him a hero in my book--would have wiped the smirk off the little b*st*rd's face now, wouldn't it have?

**eastland** · December-29-09, 08:48 PM

Hero. Nuff said.

**Crumbled_pavement** · December-29-09, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ms. G

I would LOVE to be picked for this jury. This man would either be home in 10 minutes or I would deadlock the jury into a mis-trial. LET HIM GO!!!!!

The penalty for robbery should be death anyway. And death should come swift with no chance of probation or beating the charges. Theft is undermining society anyway. If you're not willing to work for what you want then you simply don't deserve what you want. If society wasn't full of so many weak and compassionate people who feel sorry for common thugs we could have eradicated this problem many generations ago. Think of how many less police, lawyers, prosecutors, judges, and jury members [[i.e. tax dollars) society would need if common sense prevailed.

**Downtown Lady** · December-30-09, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

The penalty for robbery should be death anyway.

What the hell -- the penalty for robbery should be DEATH?

And for those so eager to be on the jury so they can vote not guilty, your vote on the jury is supposed to be in line with the law -- you don't get to make a decision based on your own personal opinion. Of course you can just disregard the law and decide whatever the hell you want, but why bother even having a court system then?

DetroitDad · December-30-09, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Downtown Lady

What the hell -- the penalty for robbery should be DEATH?

And for those so eager to be on the jury so they can vote not guilty, your vote on the jury is supposed to be in line with the law -- you don't get to make a decision based on your own personal opinion. Of course you can just disregard the law and decide whatever the hell you want, but why bother even having a court system then?

Innocent until proven guilty.

He killed an innocent man.

**Ragtoplover59** · December-29-09, 08:56 PM

After being broke into 3 times within the last week, I'd bet he was harassed to the point of losing control, He most likely wasn't planning to kill any one prior to these 3 situations.

Keep messing with anyone long enough and they will snap!

I guess if he had kept his cool, when he had the perp at gun point, He could have just ordered a pizza and had dinner while waiting for the police to respond.

....and of course, everyone knows...
It was his own fault for having anything on his property that someone may want to help themselves to?

Sounds like the movie, "Grand Torino", and like the movie, this too will not have a very good ending!

**Blueidone** · December-29-09, 09:11 PM

Although I don't think he should have killed the man, I will agree with the shooting him in the nuts...or the jaw to stop the taunting...of the foot to stop his running.

I agree that if the city government and the police can't handle the crime, only criminals will be left in the city. Maybe a little vigilati-ism is what is required right now.

If nothing else, he should be let go by reason of temporary insanity. I'd like to sit next to Ms. G on the jury!

**gazhekwe** · December-29-09, 09:19 PM

I am sorry, I do not see lawlessness as a solution to anything, especially not lawlessness.

**Crumbled_pavement** · December-29-09, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I am sorry, I do not see lawlessness as a solution to anything, especially not lawlessness.

Oh I forgot to mention all the prisons we could get rid of. Aren't we facing a budget crisis in this state? If we weren't so wrapped up in giving the criminal rights these scum could already be buried six feet deep and we wouldn't be giving them three hots and a cot - out of our already strained budget.

Tigh Croff, you're my hero. If no one else tells you this then I'll tell you: GOOD JOB!

Retroit · December-31-09, 02:44 PM

Yes, it is quite ironic that when a criminal kills an innocent person, nary a word is said; but when an innocent person kills a criminal, many are eager to demand that the law must be followed.

**R8RBOB** · December-31-09, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

Yes, it is quite ironic that when a criminal kills an innocent person, nary a word is said; but when an innocent person kills a criminal, many are eager to demand that the law must be followed.

What is it to said? If the criminal is caught we all know that he or she is going to jail, PERIOD. There is nothing to be said. What we have here is a case of a citizen going Paul Kersey and that was the mistake he made. Let's not get it twisted. An able 31 year old shot and killed a 53 year old who was tired from running hence the surrender. Couldn't he had whupped his ass to send a message? Isn't that the police do after they have to chase a suspect? You don't see them shooting down the suspect after they have them cornered do you?

smudge pot · December-31-09, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

An able 31 year old shot and killed a 53 year old who was tired from running hence the surrender.

Update on old joke: Two guys, Tom and Dick, went camping. Next morning they wake up, get out of the tent, barefoot, and start frying up some breakfast. Suddenly a bear comes crashing through the trees into the clearing. Tom starts putting on his shoes:

Dick: "Why are you putting on your shoes, Tom, you know you can't outrun the bear?"

Tom: "Who needs to outrun the bear, Dick, all I need to do is outrun you".

Dick: "No problemo, Tom, if the bear catches me, I'll just stand there and act like a smart-ass."

Tom: "Dick, you're a genius, see ya!"

**ejames01** · December-31-09, 03:02 PM

"nary a word is said". People complain ALL the time about crime on this board. You need to stop making things up.

Originally Posted by Retroit

Yes, it is quite ironic that when a criminal kills an innocent person, nary a word is said; but when an innocent person kills a criminal, many are eager to demand that the law must be followed.

Retroit · January-01-10, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by ejames01

"nary a word is said". People complain ALL the time about crime on this board. You need to stop making things up.

I guess I need to spend more time looking for those complaints. It is my recollection that criminals are usually excused based on their socio-racio-economic hardships. For example, if a person robs a store, he does it to feed his family. If a person robs a house, he does it because times are tough economically. If crime is higher among African-Americans, it is because they have been oppressed for 300 years. etc.

**R8RBOB** · January-01-10, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Retroit

I guess I need to spend more time looking for those complaints. It is my recollection that criminals are usually excused based on their socio-racio-economic hardships. For example, if a person robs a store, he does it to feed his family. If a person robs a house, he does it because times are tough economically. If crime is higher among African-Americans, it is because they have been oppressed for 300 years. etc.

After reading this I can't stop laughing. Criminals excused for their behavior. I guess the jails are really housing units for the unprivileged. BTW, I'm still laughing.

**R8RBOB** · December-31-09, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ms. G

You obviously don't live in Detroit. The mayor, police nor city council have done anything to stop crime. This may be the only answer. Hope you're never the victim of not only one crime, but multiple crimes. Good luck with the rose colored glasses.

If you are living in Detroit then you are living in the part that would be considered "Fantasy Island"

Stop crime!!! You expect the mayor, the police and city council to "stop crime." May you should added Moses, the Lord Almighty and Barack Obama as the Messiah in the mission to stop crime. Crime has been around since the beginning of time. It was a crime for George W. Bush to go into Iraq. It was a crime for Bernie Madoff to swindle 50 billion dollars from his investors. It was a crime for Bodie and Poot to kill Wallace. [[Ok, I love the Wire so I had to throw that one out there)

Here is one group of people you forgot to add in the war on crime: the citizens. If that guy neighbors cared for their neighbor then they would have been looking out for his house and may have prevented one of those three burglaries.

What that dude did was wrong, period. I could accepted him pistol-whipping him to teach him a lesson. C'mon the guy was 51 year old and tired from running. I doubt he would have been much of a challenge. The guy Tigh Croff [[it would have cool if his name was Saul Tigh) told police that the dead man was in his backyard with an another guy, not his house. Again, was he right in killing the man? No.

**R8RBOB** · January-01-10, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ms. G

Second - regarding sitizen involvement, isn't that what happened here? A citizen stopped this guy from committing any more crimes?

So, that is the answer I suppose. To stop the monsters who prey on us we have to become the monster. Would it help your thinking to know that the guy didn't break into his house? Yes, he and his comrade was in Croff's backyard and yes they were probably were going to break in but he caught them in the backyard and they fled. Stop!!! They were running, not robbing. Though Mr. Croff had been a victim of previous break-ins, he was not the victim this time. Mr. Croff chose to become a monster and now he is no longer the victim.