Why I left

[Buy American]

Get robbed? Get a CCW and carry a gun. For the house buy a security system, and keep up a NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH.

Sounds like you want people to live with bars on the doors and windows, have a shotgun at every window and wear bullet proof vests when leaving the house. Is that how people are supposed to live? Sounds more like Iraq.

People shouldn't have to live that way. I was broken into twice, finally put an alarm on the house but that didn't deter the thugs. I and my family lived in fear the last few years I remained in Detroit.

Neighborhood Watch??? That's a joke in Detroit. Most of the neighbors were doing just that...watching for me to leave the house to break in. There comes a time in a person's life when family safety means more than your hometown. Get real.

[rustic2]

Good retorts above to Motroit's gun advice. To those I would add, specifically his point about being robbed: How can ordinary citizens packing pistols fend off armed robbers who, in the vast majority of cases, will already have the drop on them?

[GOAT]

Exactly Rustic. Not to mention that many of these criminals have already used guns on others. Not too many people can say they shot a person or would want to. Bravado on these boards is laughable most of the time. Most would miss with their weapon whereas the guy used to shooting it [[at people) wouldn't.

I see most of the pollyana haven't retorted my statement above so I will reiterate again. Detroit needs people to move back [[including business) but detroiters must support these businesses and work [[yes that means the parents of the kids too) to rebuild the DPS along with the DPD.

[Retroit]

Maybe we need another thread: "Why you shouldn't have left."

[GOAT]

There you have it Retroit. I would be interested to know that as well. Come on folks why did you stay?

[bailey]

Sounds like you want people to live with bars on the doors and windows, have a shotgun at every window and wear bullet proof vests when leaving the house. Is that how people are supposed to live? Sounds more like Iraq.

People shouldn't have to live that way. I was broken into twice, finally put an alarm on the house but that didn't deter the thugs. I and my family lived in fear the last few years I remained in Detroit.

Neighborhood Watch??? That's a joke in Detroit. Most of the neighbors were doing just that...watching for me to leave the house to break in. There comes a time in a person's life when family safety means more than your hometown. Get real.

I dont want to get into a whole big thing here, but you really don't see the irony in your statements there? You left Detroit based on your personal, and very negative experiences....and no one would begrudge you that. And yet, your response to anyone who offers the same personal, and very negative experiences pertaining to domestic automobiles you scream "WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN."

[MustangMan]

Wait a minute Bailey, who said anything about auto's? but while your on this subject I do agree with the statement "WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN." this is very true as it also pertains to every product you buy, everyone who ever cared about our economy should follow these words, our grandfather's didn't fight the Axis power's so that everything they fought and died for could be given away, especially to China a country with no human rights, no democracy and last time I checked still a Communist country that we now happen to owe 11 billion dollar's, doesn't anyone else see where this is heading? ok enuff of my rant.

[Buy American]

I dont want to get into a whole big thing here, but you really don't see the irony in your statements there? You left Detroit based on your personal, and very negative experiences....and no one would begrudge you that. And yet, your response to anyone who offers the same personal, and very negative experiences pertaining to domestic automobiles you scream "WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN."

I didn't leave Michigan. I still support the Big 3. Isn't this thread about why a person left Detroit?

[econ expat]

I didn't leave Michigan. I still support the Big 3. Isn't this thread about why a person left Detroit?

You are a former City of Detroit employee, right? Moved from the city?

[Buy American]

You are a former City of Detroit employee, right? Moved from the city?

...Correct.

[jt1]

...Correct.

And likely collecting a pension.

BA seems to think the citizens of the city are beneath him .... but will keep taking their tax dollars.

[smudge pot]

WHY MOST OF YOU LEFT:
"Oh my god it's getting so bad around here, we need to get out and move to the burbs"
Insted of staying and sticking up for your city and fighting for what was yours.
If that is the case for you reader then SHAME ON YOU!

I'll take the shame, pour it on me. But it was my grandma who left Detroit, and it was my grandma who did not end up like Marabel Chanin.

[Hermod]

I lived in Detroit from 1940 to 1954. In 1954, my folks moved to Rochester. My father wanted to live in the country [[Rochester was country then). I had just finished my first year at Denby High. After college, I worked for the city downtown and lived out near 7 mile and Schoenner. I had an ROTC commission and got called for two years active duty. I found that I liked the army better than the Detroit civil service and stayed gone. Since November 1961, I have only gone to the Detroit area to visit family. Most of my family live in an arc from Ann Arbor to Harsen's Island. I live in Florida now.

[PQZ]

Ineptitude of the electeds at the local, county, regional and state level. Time after time after time I watched elected leaders ignore the writing on the wall and pursue policies that would exacerbate the problems faced by the city and the state.

Time after time after time I watched you idiots re-elect them without question.

The prospect for grass roots movements to change anything was dismal at best. Too many people mistaking meaningless gestures as actual effort and work.

With nothing to tie me to the place, I jumped when head hunted for a job in a warmer climate where white Republican mayors lead the charge to enact taxes to build rail based mass transit and get 70% of the electorate to support it.

Too bad really. I miss seeing statues of my ancestors around town.

The reality is that despite the isolated efforts of some very good and talented people, Detroit and Michigan have squandered their opportunities to bring real change and hope to their residents. And the structural damage to the economy is so deep that it won;'t change for another 25 years.

I hate saying that because I have a lot of very good friends still there, who will be there for life. They deserve so much better than what the City and the State are going to bitch slap them with. I only hope they can continue to carve something good out of the madness.

[Retroit]

And likely collecting a pension.

That's a good point. Should city retirees forfeit their pension, or some of their pension, if they move out? Why should the city have an obligation to former employees if those employees don't feel an obligation to the city?

[[I'm not taking a side, just thinking out loud.)

[Hermod]

That's a good point. Should city retirees forfeit their pension, or some of their pension, if they move out? Why should the city have an obligation to former employees if those employees don't feel an obligation to the city?

[[I'm not taking a side, just thinking out loud.)

Supposedly, a pension is money earned during the time the individual worked for the city. In other words, the money is owed regardlesss of where the person chooses to live. Florida is overrun with retired NYPD and NYFD retirees.

[Capnhook]

My wife and I moved to SE michigan from South Carolina after I finished grad school. She tranferred to Wayne State and I got a job in Southfield. with one car between us we had to pick living either close to work [[Sthfld) or close to WSU. We found an apartment in Southfield and lived there for a short while.

We then found a wonderful house, wonderful neighbors and a great neighborhood in Old Redford and lived there for 8 years. We moved to Rochester so work and home wouldn't be too far apart and for the school system.

Then VW announced the corporate relocation and less that 1 1/2 years later we moved to the DC area where we are now.

Most of the neighbors in the area sent their kids to private or parochial schools. we were interested in the waldorf schools and the only 2 around were Indian Village and up near Rochester, so we moved up there.

We enjoy the DC area but miss alot of what we had in Detroit -- the neighbors, Eastern Market, the old Redford Theater, on and on.

[Buy American]

That's a good point. Should city retirees forfeit their pension, or some of their pension, if they move out? Why should the city have an obligation to former employees if those employees don't feel an obligation to the city?

[[I'm not taking a side, just thinking out loud.)

How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot? After working for 30 years for Detroit; protecting the citizens by putting yourself on the front line every day; making concessions throughout your working career for the "betterment" of the City; living in the City with wild animals who called themselves human beings because you were forced to stay while working...would you give up what you worked for? I think not.

[detroitbred]

BuyAmerican, you are exactly right. My father was DPD for more than 30 years. He deserves and earned every penny of that pension. Even aside from their day to day, on-the-job responsibilites, they were required to carry their guns off duty as well. As a kid, I can remember going places with my dad, and he was always on the alert for anything suspicious or out of place, no matter what we were doing or where we were. And then there were the riots when I sat in front of the TV with my mon, wondering if he would be coming home alive. He and fellow officers were even being shot at from the freeway over passes. He/they owe Detroit nothing. Detroit owes them all the pensions that they EARNED and a huge debt of gratitude.

[Buy American]

BuyAmerican, you are exactly right. My father was DPD for more than 30 years. He deserves and earned every penny of that pension. Even aside from their day to day, on-the-job responsibilites, they were required to carry their guns off duty as well. As a kid, I can remember going places with my dad, and he was always on the alert for anything suspicious or out of place, no matter what we were doing or where we were. And then there were the riots when I sat in front of the TV with my mon, wondering if he would be coming home alive. He and fellow officers were even being shot at from the freeway over passes. He/they owe Detroit nothing. Detroit owes them all the pensions that they EARNED and a huge debt of gratitude.

Thank you for your support. You know what I am talking about. I don't care to hear from those that haven't lived it or walked in the shoes of those who did. EARNED is the key word that others seem to forget.
I would have gladly stayed in Detroit had the City been a more "family friendly" city. Living there 50 years, it's still my hometown and I love the memories of what it was...not what it is today.

[detroitbred]

EXACTLY! I have the most wonderful memories of growing up in Detroit. I'm sure that some here will criticize me for being negative, but our Detroit will never be what she was back then, despite the hard work and good intentions of many here on this forum. And that breaks my heart.

[kryptonite]

We enjoy the DC area but miss alot of what we had in Detroit -- the neighbors, Eastern Market, the old Redford Theater, on and on.[/quote]

VW Move, I lived in DC for two years and never really found it to be a replacement for Detroit. DC has a great deal going for it but in many ways it does not have what many other cities have. My theory about DC was that if I was going to spend so much to live in a city why shouldn't it be somewhere cool like Chicago, NYC, SF, Atlanta, etc. And DC is so highly transient it is a bit hard to make long-term friends. My job there was temporary and when I moved back to Detroit I appreciated what we have here a good deal more.

[Retroit]

BuyAmerican and detroitbred, I completely agree with you. The expectation of a pension is one of the incentives of keeping one's job, and a person that defers part of their income into a pension plan has every right to receive it. I [[and possible jt1) had a misunderstanding in thinking that pensions were taken out of current tax dollars when in fact they are from contributions by employees during their working life. I should have kept my mouth shut [[as usual ).

I guess maybe I just have a problem with pensions in general. I'd rather receive my money up front or put it into investments that I have control over [[like a 401k).

[Swimmaven]

I left in '84 after WAY too much crime. My house had been robbed several times [[Completely emptied), car vandalized multiple times and having a gun to my head and being mugged multiple times. . . . It was time for me to leave. I tried to do my best to stay [[and do what I could to help improve the city) but it just seemed things just kept getting worse instead of better. I felt I . . . had to leave or something worse would happen so I left . . . I don't see it getting better [[safe) enough in my lifetime to move back.

Same thing happened to me. The gun pointed at me was the last straw.

I married and we moved to California. I live in Long Beach now. Not the best of the beach cities, but we have a Cliff May house in a Cliff May neighborhood, nice neighbors, big Jeffrey pines on my street.

What do I miss? Rain, cooler weather as in fall and spring, the artists I knew in Detroit.

I would NEVER move back to Detroit. Too racist, too destroyed.

[Hermod]

I live in the Ft Lauderdale area of Florida right now and don't like it. I am retired and could live anywhere, but my wife likes it here for the weather. If anything were to happen to my wife [[God forbid) and I was left alone, I would move back to Michigan. I would not, however, live in Detroit. I would like to have a place near the water up somewheres between Algonac and Port Huron. Close enough to SE Michigan shopping and my family members, yet far enough away from the city to not get too much of its disadvantages. If Detroit were still the place I grew up with 1940-1954, I would love to live in the city. As it is, it is just a pastiche of very pleasant memories. It hurts me too much to drive through Detroit and see the wreckage of what once was my city.