This Is Exactly Why Metro Detroit's Future IS Doomed

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Weather and Bad stuff about Detroit on the same site?. Kinda like seeing the ruins of Detroit in Hot Rod Magazine.

That's just what I was about to say. Trashing Detroit on a weather site. Go figure.

[Rideron]

Well, one things for sure, you can't blame Republicans for how the city's been run for the last 48 years....

64Jerome CavanaghJanuary 2, 1962 – January 6, 1970Democraticlater ran for Governor of Michigan65Roman GribbsJanuary 6, 1970 – January 1, 1974Democratic66Coleman YoungJanuary 1, 1974 – January 3, 1994Democraticfirst African-American mayor; longest-serving mayor67Dennis ArcherJanuary 3, 1994 – January 4, 2002Democratic68Kwame KilpatrickJanuary 4, 2002 – September 18, 2008Democraticresigned due to scandal and ensuing felony conviction69Kenneth Cockrel, Jr.September 18, 2008 – May 11, 2009Democratic70Dave BingMay 11, 2009 – presentDemocratic

[wazootyman]

What can you do to save the region when there's so much stupidity spreading across the area [[note the location of several posters)...?

http://forums.accuweather.com/index.php?showtopic=15944

Wait, so a handful of people on an Internet forum [[one about weather, no less) speak ill of Detroit, and your forecast [[ha) is doom for the entire region?

Don't jump to conclusions or anything...

[andybsg]

I agree with the quote but you have to consider his entire body of work.
The issue with his attitude and those of the woman referenced in the original post is that they completely ignore those that do something positive and instead focus only on the negative. Stating one extreme is correct while condemning the other extreme is pure hypocrisy.

Like I said, I don't know enough about Retroit, I'm new here. What I did notice in this thread is that no one jumped on 313wx for lumping all suburbs into the "white bred" classification. There appears to be a strong double standard being exercised here. It is wrong to say that all Detroiters are dumb, lazy, and uncaring just as it is wrong to say that all suburbanites are dumb, insular, and uncaring. A little self reflection on both sides might go a long way.

[bartock]

I would just take the weather board comments at face value...they were pretty funny comments. I was especially amused by the thought of someone being "chased" through Greektown, then running into two "thugs." Doesn't that tell you enough? A couple of posters who have spelling/grammar issues. I'm sure we could find similar ignorance/perceptions about Detroit, Royal Oak, Rochester, etc. on other [[weather??) boards.

Of course negative perceptions are bad, but sometimes you have to choose your battles.

[Stosh]

Well, one things for sure, you can't blame Republicans for how the city's been run for the last 48 years....

64Jerome CavanaghJanuary 2, 1962 – January 6, 1970Democraticlater ran for Governor of Michigan65Roman GribbsJanuary 6, 1970 – January 1, 1974Democratic66Coleman YoungJanuary 1, 1974 – January 3, 1994Democraticfirst African-American mayor; longest-serving mayor67Dennis ArcherJanuary 3, 1994 – January 4, 2002Democratic68Kwame KilpatrickJanuary 4, 2002 – September 18, 2008Democraticresigned due to scandal and ensuing felony conviction69Kenneth Cockrel, Jr.September 18, 2008 – May 11, 2009Democratic70Dave BingMay 11, 2009 – presentDemocratic

Format much? And I don't think that the latter one is accurate.

[Lorax]

Well, one things for sure, you can't blame Republicans for how the city's been run for the last 48 years....

64Jerome CavanaghJanuary 2, 1962 – January 6, 1970Democraticlater ran for Governor of Michigan65Roman GribbsJanuary 6, 1970 – January 1, 1974Democratic66Coleman YoungJanuary 1, 1974 – January 3, 1994Democraticfirst African-American mayor; longest-serving mayor67Dennis ArcherJanuary 3, 1994 – January 4, 2002Democratic68Kwame KilpatrickJanuary 4, 2002 – September 18, 2008Democraticresigned due to scandal and ensuing felony conviction69Kenneth Cockrel, Jr.September 18, 2008 – May 11, 2009Democratic70Dave BingMay 11, 2009 – presentDemocratic

LOL!!!

We can, however, blame Rethuglicans in charge at the state and national level for the situation Detroit now finds itself in, a slow drip of fascist agendas starting with Reagan, and ending with the Bush Crime Family and current collapsed state of our economy.

Rich, white, Rethuglican run corporations thought union busting and off-shoring their workforces was preferable to sustaining AMERICANS in their jobs and homes.

Yeah, it's OK to blame the local corrupt politicos, but they learned from the best!

[313WX]

Wait, so a handful of people on an Internet forum [[one about weather, no less) speak ill of Detroit, and your forecast [[ha) is doom for the entire region?

Don't jump to conclusions or anything...

I don't have to jump to conclusion, the proof is in the engine [[no pun intended). Between the recent Cobo Hall/Auto Show debacle and how this region functions [[what idiot would vote to INCREASE road infrastructure over developing alternative forms of transportation when oil prices are at all-time historical highs?) in general proves that majority of Metro Detroit's population feel just like those people.

[wazootyman]

I don't have to jump to conclusion, the proof is in the engine [[no pun intended). Between the recent Cobo Hall/Auto Show debacle...

Debacle or not...the outcome was that a regional authority was established. Improvements to Cobo Hall are being made right now under this authority. In my opinion, recent elections in the city have proven that there's a desire to improve regional cooperation. Don't assume a few outspoken idiots speak for the majority.

...and how this region functions [[what idiot would vote to INCREASE road infrastructure over developing alternative forms of transportation when oil prices are at all-time historical highs?) in general proves that majority of Metro Detroit's population feel just like those people.

I disagree. Like it or not, regardless of the strides being made to improve mass transit in the area, the automobile is and will continue to be the primary mode of transportation around here. Besides, busses drive on roads, don't they? It's simply not possible to a) cover the entire metropolitan region with efficient rail transit, b) convince everyone that they should dramatically increase their commute time while decreasing convenience and c) pay for what would certainly cost in the tens-of-billions of dollars, especially with the present state of the economy. I don't think we're idiots, I think we're realists, and trains aren't the magical fix. Let's start with a rail line up Woodward, one to Ann Arbor, then go from there. Until you create a rail line from Livonia to Plymouth, I'm still going to have to drive to work, and I'd rather funding be allotted so I don't lose a tire on my morning commute.

Think positive. You'll live longer and happier by doing so.

[kryptonite]

Screw the critics. They will always be around and if they don't like Detroit then they don't have to live here. For many of us this is our home and for those of us that are happy here all that matters is that we are happy here. I have had many friends visit from out of state that were very impressed with Detroit.

So, yet another boring string of Detroit criticism. We have endured that since the 1960's. Ho hum... It takes no analytical genius to criticize Detroit, granted. It takes more creativity to elaborate on the city's many great institutions, architectural masterpieces, beautiful old churches, our beautiful waterfront, etc.

[1KielsonDrive]

The fact of the matter is those people in that link I posted above [[and Retroit) pretend as if their white bred townships are free of imperfections. In fact, I was shocked when that same woman said in other thread "the end of innocence" was when someone was robbed in broad daylight of a check. Do that whacko lady not realize the unemployment rate in this region is approaching 25%? People are getting desperate and they will do any and everything to survive in this shit storm, no matter where one live. Pretending that things like that could only happen in the war zone of Detroit is at best delusional. They refuse to realize however that whatever ahppens in Detroit proper will still impact them negatively [[even if tehy don't feel it directly). Majority of the federal money Michigan gets is compliments of Detroit. The "Us vs. Them" mentality gets us nowhere. The city council's clown antics is no better than Jim Fouts or L. Brooks Patterson's "Fuck you all" divisive politics. We're all in this together and trying to isolate ourselves from one another just sends us further into oblivion.

313, thanks for your clarification. I pretty much agree with your comments above. When a poor, hungry person commits a minor crime in the name of survival, it seems to draw publicity and derision.Wall Street Bankers and corporate CEO's steel a couple hundred millions, and they walk. Oft times with admiration for their skills, ability and wealth to manipulate the system. Soon enough [[if not prior to their crimes), they've bought the politicians necessary to legitimize whatever it is they've done or plan to do.

[andybsg]

LOL!!!

We can, however, blame Rethuglicans in charge at the state and national level for the situation Detroit now finds itself in, a slow drip of fascist agendas starting with Reagan, and ending with the Bush Crime Family and current collapsed state of our economy.

Rich, white, Rethuglican run corporations thought union busting and off-shoring their workforces was preferable to sustaining AMERICANS in their jobs and homes.

Yeah, it's OK to blame the local corrupt politicos, but they learned from the best!

Wow, will this blatantly racist statement be allowed to stand or will it be deleted by the moderators?

[Retroit]

"It would better the city if people stopped being offended about the facts and started seriously doing something about it."

It would better this forum if people stopped being offended about the fact that Detroit has serious problems and started seriously doing something about it, like discuss the reasons why Detroit is the way it is and what could be done to improve it [[instead of attacking those that are willing to take on these issues).

It would better this forum if people stopped being offended by people who have criticisms of Detroit and started seriously to discuss whether those criticisms have validity, and if so, what can be done about it.

It would better this forum if people stopped pre-judging and categorizing each other and started seriously to take each statement at face value, like andybsg has done.

Welcome to the forum, andybsg. You are a breath of fresh air. You may be "new", but you have instinctively cut through the obfuscation of issues that predominates here.

[Lorax]

Wow, will this blatantly racist statement be allowed to stand or will it be deleted by the moderators?

Speak for yourself, mister.

Name me one corporation of consequence that has abandoned Detroit that wasn't run or owned by rich, white, Rethuglican men.

Maybe Motown, but that's the only one I can think of.

I'm white, for the record, so I can say it, especially since there's nothing racist about it. And it's the truth. Deal with it.

[andybsg]

Speak for yourself, mister.

Name me one corporation of consequence that has abandoned Detroit that wasn't run or owned by rich, white, Rethuglican men.

Maybe Motown, but that's the only one I can think of.

I'm white, for the record, so I can say it, especially since there's nothing racist about it. And it's the truth. Deal with it.

Wow, that would be like me saying this-

Name me one Detroit politician of consequence over the last 30 years that has screwed Detroit that wasn't black or a Democrat.

That sounds pretty stupid doesn't it? Well, now you know what it's like listening to you.

[Lorax]

I would argue that the white owned business structure because of race started the disinvestment in Detroit decades ago. The riots didn't happen because everything was peachy between the races, in case you haven't heard.

Detroit politicians were no doubt corrupt, but their race had nothing to do with that, as you suggest.

Sorry, but race baiting is something I am prepared for, so keep it up.

[Rideron]

I would argue that the white owned business structure because of race started the disinvestment in Detroit decades ago. The riots didn't happen because everything was peachy between the races, in case you haven't heard.

Detroit politicians were no doubt corrupt, but their race had nothing to do with that, as you suggest.

Sorry, but race baiting is something I am prepared for, so keep it up.

Holy S**t Lorax...

And you don't even see your own hypocrisy , do ya?

[Lorax]

Truth is truth.

You are not entitled to your own set of facts, sorry.

[bartock]

Sometimes, in debates like this, the words "greed" and "racism" are somehow treated as synonymous. Just my opinion.

[tallboy66]

What idiots, we have to do what we can to turn the city around and prove people wrong.

When? Besides what GM did with the riverfront which is fine and dandy but what about the rest of the way up Woodward, Gratiot, the Lodge?
Tell me that at least the incinerator has stopped operating?

[smudge pot]

Funny how it's always the Capitalist Roaders who excruciatingly contort themselves to express Correct Chairman Mao Thought. How many hundreds of thousands of landlords ended up swinging on a rope after the 1949 revolution? BTW, I'm looking for some investment property, something cute in Brush Park, or Boston Edison.

[DetroitZack]

When? Besides what GM did with the riverfront which is fine and dandy but what about the rest of the way up Woodward, Gratiot, the Lodge?
Tell me that at least the incinerator has stopped operating?

Why are you asking when? I'm not sure why this post is directed to me. I'm well aware that other parts of the city need work....

[tallboy66]

Why are you asking when? I'm not sure why this post is directed to me. I'm well aware that other parts of the city need work....

I quoted you but it's not directed at you as many people feel this way "we have to do what we can to turn the city around and prove people wrong." but it's a general statement like "pull yourself up by the boot straps", "we need to get down to the business of doing business", "when the tough get going the going get tough"... but the city does everything possible it seems to NOT entice any type of business or community environment.

I say When? because... it's been 6 years since I left after living in the area for 20 years it's still the same discussions, mass transit, light rail, condo's/lofts proposed in some building and it just never happens but they have money to tear down buildings and Tyree Guytons work or other artists [[who btw are the very people who make a community livable, and can't get basic city services running, snow plow, trash, police and fire...mass transit [[that doesn't include a 3 hr one way trip to Troy)

And just exactly where would you ride to or from on the Dequindre bike trail from Mack to the River!? fine but who lives along that area and rides for leisure or to work?, nobody! Then they pave over an existing rail line to propose it as a new light rail site LOL!

[kathy2trips]

There are those who have suggested that Detroit is a textbook example of what happens when labor takes advantage of management to the point where businesses throw up their hands and say, "forget it". No business, no jobs. With all the taxes and labor restrictions, it's a wonder businesses can operate at all in Detroit. I mean, Detroit still has a city income tax! For what? Do you have to hire union people at $30/hr to plant trees?

Everyone around the country heard the ladies in line talk about their "free Obama money" they were planning on getting last Fall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZ-Etb0k0Q This is what happens when government entitlements and handouts reduce the population to economic slavery.

So, no jobs + gov't handouts = no motivation to create, innovate, or even just produce. Why, when you can sit on your hands and get "free Obama money"?

Give people hands up, not hand outs. Make Detroit an inexpensive place to do business. And champion small business because small businesses will revitalize Detroit, but not while the current business model of how NOT to run a city is still in place.

[Lorax]

More like it's an issue of corporations constantly spending their money and efforts on union busting that is the problem.

Unions exist for a reason- if they didn't, and corporations were left to their own devices, we know what happens, we get to go back to the sweat shops of the 19th, century, the Triangle factory fire, and other egregious examples of how corporations routinely treat their employees with contempt.

Unions aren't the reason Detroit looks the way it does- it's disinvestment by the corporate money interests seeking cheap labor, whether it's in Tennessee or China.

National trade policy only exacerbates this, combined with 30 years of failed Reagan/Bush economic and trade policies that we are still living with today.

Detroit's local problems would include corruption throughout city hall, the city income tax, certainly, the completely corrupted property tax issue, and the backward idea that slamming any and all businesses with unnecessary red-tape when they show an interest in opening in Detroit.

I've looked into opening a business in Detroit, and have monitored the red tape over the years, and it only gets worse. Until city hall wakes up and starts doing what is necessary to turn around the city, it will only be more of the same.

Landlords of vacant properties that have "for rent" signs posted all over town, need to show they are serious about renting, and get anyone in who is willing to pay- storefronts in a nearly completely vacant downtown have no business being over 1000 bucks a month for any street level storefront, regardless of size.

When I can rent on Woodward in Ferndale for 1500 per month, or Royal Oak for 1800 per month- the same size storefront in downtown Detroit should be 500 bucks a month, since downtown I get:

No convenient parking
No police protection
Highest insurance rates in the region
Little foot traffic
No chance of nighttime business
Wrecked storefronts that require too much rehab/city permits, etc.
City income tax

Whereas I stand a chance of having all of these things remedied by being in the suburbs.

Rapid transit/light rail is a necessity in my view, if Detroit is going to eventually end regional turf wars, and bring some cohesiveness to the area.

I say get a comprehensive three-county regional authority formed, which I think is the latest desire between counties, and work toward raising the funding to complete it.

Then Detroit and the region stands a chance, since they need each other to be healthy, whether suburban politicians believe it or not.