New round of WDET changes; Ed Love cut way back

[Gannon]

I used to think so, Andrew, but she has gotten SO much better...I've grown to like her. Can we find another term for moving her out, though? She IS another human being...

As for habitual speech patterns, I'd much rather have someone obviously actively thinking than spitting out inanities perfectly.

Hockenberry comes immediately to mind.


Funny...I might be less critical of him if I knew him.

Perhaps I'm still bitter about losing that last two-hours of news recap...confirmation of what I'd sleep- or breakfast-background learned earlier, but needed to hear through the next time to really listen to the item fully. Plus, that doubled first hour was SO crucial to me...I cannot tell you how many news stories I heard that were later removed, indicating interference from some outside source. So often those first-hour stories were the truth, and the filtered follow-up the cover story.


It's too early for me now to remember them...I cannot even FIND my caffeine today. Ugh. I should've just pulled an all-nighter.

Cheers

[1KielsonDrive]

No.

Real deal.


What size shoe do you wear, Kielson?

Hey Gannon, why? I'm perfectly capable of apologizing or retracting statements I've made that are foolish or incorrect. I stand by my statements about Fahle. We've discussed him, his show and DET, here in the past. My shoe and foot, as big as they are, fit easily into my mouth, because I've had plenty of practice and they spend a lot of time in there. Regardless, I'd give Fahle a listen if I thought he'd improved his speech patterns and relationships with person he interviews. Not meant as a knock, but as a suggestion from someone who's been around a long time and listened to plenty of interviewers, journalists, commentators and pundits. Who suggests that because he's a Detroiter and works at DET that he's immune from criticism? I'd think it would be an honor for Fahle to hear and humbly accept criticism if he's truly attempting to be a great broadcaster and provide a real service to our community.

[oldredfordette]

I love Hockenberry.

[Gannon]

Good you caught my joke...I never said anyone should be immune from anything...I think Craggy and I share the same welcome to criticism...but your DELIVERY and tone, damn.

Like Andrew wanting to 'shitcan' a human.


Funny how some seek to treat animals humanely, when we humans treat each other like animals.


Sounds like you can dish it, but not take it? That was one long-winded rebuttal, you read an AWFUL bunch into one little joke of a comment.


From all of my perceptions of the man over a period of time with his two incarnations on Detroit radio [[and some dialogue inbetween when he was in North Carolina), he is exactly doing what you say...with BOTH objectives...and beyond.


Cheers, really.

[Craggy]

Of course I read this stuff, and take the criticism seriously. Too often people don't want to tell you the truth to your face, and that doesn't help anyone. If the web has done anything, its allowed people to say what is really on their mind, and in some instances, that's valuable.

When someone simply says "You suck!" Well, that doesn't address the issue, does it? However, when someone comments on something specific, such as speech issues, interview techniques, etc...that's a tad more constructive.

So, bring it on. If I'm too dense to see some truth in critique, then I'm not going to get better.

I will ask this, though...don't make stuff up.

"A guy I know, knew this guy who worked there" is not a credible source.

Ask me. I'll tell you what I know, and within limits of personal privacy,what I can about MY program. I can't speak to other decisions made, since I am not management.

I hope you all choose to tune in, and give it a chance. If you like "Detroit Today", then you are going to like the "Craig Fahle show." If you haven't heard it in a long time, I hope you choose to revisit.

Thanks, and I can take it. It comes with the job.

[Detroitnerd]

Class act, Craggy.

[Gannon]

Without any abrasion, nothing would get polished.


[[get yer minds out of the gutter)

[gnome]

Digging through some old files, just happened to find a transcript of Hazen Pingree being interviewed on Detroit Today. Thought I'd share ...

IntroMusic [[Fade up and out)

CF: Hi I'm your host, Craig Fahle and welcome to Detroit Today where right now we are very pleased to have with us our legendary Mayor,... Hazen Pingree.

HP: Thank you, it's nice being back in town and se...

CF: seeing old friends? Yeah me too, I saw some of my old friends from the record store too, they said they like hearing me on my radio station.

HP: oh, isn't that nice

CF: For them sure, an um, ah in many ways, the way they feel is how so many people about you Mr. Pingree

HP: I have been out of the circulation for awhile ...

CF: ...me too, I was in Charlotte, that's in North Carolina for a mintue, they have banks there. I went to one, but in many ways, um ah um, did I tell you my wife is a teacher?

HP: No you di..

CF: Oh well I should, because that makes us a government employee family, just like you Mr. Mayor. See, we have so much in common with each other that the listeners' need to know how much, just like with everyone I interview, ya know, in many ways, um... oh, we have a caller... It's Tim from Detroit...

Tim: thanks for talking my call..., Mr. Mayor, it's a real honor, as a Civil War hero, shoemaker, Mayor and Governor ... how do you see some of the problems we are facing today?

HP: Detroit is a great cit...

CF: I have shoes too and I met Jeff Daniels who played that Civil War guy from Maine, you're from Maine, so you know, I, um ha, in many ways, know how to solve our problems: I have a radio station.

HP: I thought it was a show.

CF: For now maybe, ... that is all the time we have for now, so we'll have to leave it there...thank you for coming back from the dead and all, sure would like to have you back on my station.

HP: I'll come on right after you get Dave Bing ...

CF: It's set then.

[Ravine]

You do just fine, Craig. It's just that everybody is permanently pissed off at not only the drastic changes made at WDET a while back, but the timing of them [[immediately after a pledge drive.)
Just my opinion, of course.
And, it does seem as though just about everybody agrees that the show in the morning sucks. I'd rather that they would dig up tapes of some old Alan Watts orations and play those.
If they do away with "Fresh Air," now then I'll really be annoyed.

[1KielsonDrive]

Good you caught my joke...I never said anyone should be immune from anything...I think Craggy and I share the same welcome to criticism...but your DELIVERY and tone, damn.

Like Andrew wanting to 'shitcan' a human.


Funny how some seek to treat animals humanely, when we humans treat each other like animals.


Sounds like you can dish it, but not take it? That was one long-winded rebuttal, you read an AWFUL bunch into one little joke of a comment.


From all of my perceptions of the man over a period of time with his two incarnations on Detroit radio [[and some dialogue inbetween when he was in North Carolina), he is exactly doing what you say...with BOTH objectives...and beyond.


Cheers, really.

Gannon, I guess the Cheers go both ways. My comments were meant to be as humourous as they were serious. If you'd like to take anything I say, personally, I have no control over that. And my comments aren't a rebuttal to you. They are directed to the larger posting audience at DY and are almost always self-deprecatory. I took your comments humorously, and added to them with my thoughts. Anyway, I was addressing Fahle, his program and style. As far as Craig's progress from one state and radio station to another, I wouldn't know, I dont't know him, nor do I follow him. I don't wish him bad, I just don't have a reason to listen to his show. Maybe some day.

[1KielsonDrive]

You do just fine, Craig. It's just that everybody is permanently pissed off at not only the drastic changes made at WDET a while back, but the timing of them [[immediately after a pledge drive.)
Just my opinion, of course.
And, it does seem as though just about everybody agrees that the show in the morning sucks. I'd rather that they would dig up tapes of some old Alan Watts orations and play those.
If they do away with "Fresh Air," now then I'll really be annoyed.

Ravine, you said that quite well. I agree.Thank you. Even your first sentence. I'll make it a point to listen to Fahle. I've had DET off of my radio for so long it's hard to get back in the habit of tuning them in on any regular basis.

[Ravine]

Thank you, 1KD.
I mean, y'know, it's not as though the programming is awful. It's just that, in very recent memory, the whole danged schedule, day & night, was rather spiffy, and the fall was so sudden.

[Gannon]

Classless act, Gnome.

[1KielsonDrive]

Thank you, 1KD.
I mean, y'know, it's not as though the programming is awful. It's just that, in very recent memory, the whole danged schedule, day & night, was rather spiffy, and the fall was so sudden.

Yeah, and they just keep jerking us around by changing endlessly. Who are they benchmarking themselves by? I don't think DET has had a GM for years, who knows what the hell [[s)he or the listeners want. Any idiot that tells me they have to have a talk-radio heavy format is clueless. What distinguishes DET from almost every other NPR station out there? Is it possible DET can again become a community oriented station with a balanced mix of local and national music, talk and commentary? I can get almost everything DET offers from UOM and EMU. And their signals are much better in most of the listening area. They need to go back to the old formula of news until 9AM. Music from 9AM until Noon. Fresh Air at noon. Music from 1 until 3 or 4PM, and then news and talk until 7 or 8PM. Music again after 8PM. I listened all day most days.

[Ravine]

The turn of events has led to a sort of odd situation for me. Right before the previous Head Dumbshit In Charge announced a slew of changes, I had thrown some money to them during one of their drives. [[For which I received a CD of selections from their live-in-studio guest performances, a CD which now functions as a grim reminder of Better Days Long Gone.)

The odd part is this: By way of bi-weekly payroll deduction at my job, I have, for some years now, kicked a little bit of cash to NPR. [[WDET is not in the charitable program through which we do this stuff, so I handled my donation, to them, directly.) So now, I am contributing money to NPR, but not to WDET, which airs some NPR programming.
It seems sort of backasswards, I suppose, and WDET still sends me mail and e-mail [[I just spotted something in my in-box from Excelsior!, or whatever the hell his name is, recently,) although I sent the previous HDIC a note explaining why they could screw off after having taken our money five minutes before introducing sweeping changes in programming, but the truth is that I am still pissed off and not of a mind to Get Fooled Again.

So, for me, this latest announcement doesn't make a whole lot of difference, and as it could effect any donation consideration, it just makes an already bad situation worse.

They have played their cards very badly, and-- from a local economic standpoint-- chosen a very bad time to do so.

[Craggy]

Digging through some old files, just happened to find a transcript of Hazen Pingree being interviewed on Detroit Today. Thought I'd share ...

Very nice. Reminds me of the portrayal of Matt Damon in "Team America: World Police."

It's obvious you have spent a great deal of time listening to the show. Thanks for that.

[smogboy]

Yeah, and they just keep jerking us around by changing endlessly. Who are they benchmarking themselves by? I don't think DET has had a GM for years, who knows what the hell [[s)he or the listeners want. Any idiot that tells me they have to have a talk-radio heavy format is clueless. What distinguishes DET from almost every other NPR station out there? Is it possible DET can again become a community oriented station with a balanced mix of local and national music, talk and commentary? I can get almost everything DET offers from UOM and EMU. And their signals are much better in most of the listening area. They need to go back to the old formula of news until 9AM. Music from 9AM until Noon. Fresh Air at noon. Music from 1 until 3 or 4PM, and then news and talk until 7 or 8PM. Music again after 8PM. I listened all day most days.

You keep talking those hours and that format and I'm liable to nominate you to be the program director! Logistically this just makes total sense for the listening audience.

Seriously how many of us have a good half hour during the day to listen to a good juicy segment? But we can all afford to spare possibly a few minutes to listen to a good music. Those sometimes long winded interviews and news features can bore the snot out of us if it's on a subject we don't like. But if it's a song or music genre we don't like [[brings back memories of Judy Adams' mad adoration of Hendrix or Bandyke's Los Lobos kicks), they're usually over pretty quickly and we can move onto a new musical discovery. Sure, have a longer talk oriented segment at the noon hour- I'm usually having lunch; I can afford to listen to a good discussion or interview, but during the rest of the work day? I'm up and out of my desk, I'm running to the copier, making phone calls and doing busy work... simply put, I don't have the attention span to listen to a good in depth discussion. Music just makes sense during this time. And having the news during the commute hours is perfect as well.

Granted this works for most of us who have a nine to five-ish sort of routine.

As far as the weekends go, I think this is where the specialized genre shows should go. Give them their due! Give Deep River its hour. Have the Arkansas Traveler back on.

WDET really does have some amazingly intelligent on-air people. I can relate to most of them a heckuva lot better than the NPR folks; they have a local flavor. Ann Delisi is a prime example of that; not only does she know her stuff, she plays local music, is savvy of the national scene, promotes local artists, appears at events and is just a part of the local Detroit music scene.

WDET needs to promote more of the local unique flavor as opposed to becoming just another NPR affiliate.

[Gannon]

1KD and Ravine,

I think you both describe the situation properly and completely, and from my viewpoint...what I perceive IS exactly what you propose, they are clueless.

May I add another? They are a microcosm of the REST of the radio dial, all driven by Arbitron ratings instead of true and real knowledge of the local marketplace.

Their METRICS are incorrect.


It is exacerbated with our ex-wonderful public radio station, because they ALSO have the sub-metric of direct donation...which can also be skewed by external forces well beyond their control, yet they are acting as if drops in income are ONLY the result of listener dissatisfaction.

When donations to charitable organizations simply have to be going down everywhere, due economic forces that have nothing to do with the popularity of programming.


They are desperate, plain and simple. I cannot imagine being a General Manager, two generations past the best one ever to sit in that seat...the amazing and visionary Caryn Mathes [[I just heard Oldredfordette pop a vein...careful old gal) who DROVE market share, popularity, and even our passions with the careful assembly of personalities that we all now end up missing in their absence.

She nurtured the station as if it were her family, and it extended directly to the community through passionate volunteers who, quite frankly, would do ANYTHING for her if she asked...because we all knew it was well-considered, deliberate, and for the good of the whole.

I was wondering, since I hadn't really thought of her in years, how she's fared out in the east coast...fantasizing that the Peter Principle would be at work showing that her magic was specific to the metro Detroit marketplace...but alas, another fantasy dashed to the rocks. SHE rocks, and is doing it again at her new home.


http://wamu.org/about/people/caryn_mathes.php


http://wamu.org/about/press/carynaward.php


http://washington.bizjournals.com/wa...11/story7.html



[[Again, ORF...I do not mean to raise your blood pressure to dangerous levels, but I'm not the one with the trouble forgiving people their transgressions.)


I would say Caryn's fault was giving Martin Bandyke too much latitude for his ego to interfere with things beyond his program...and while I thought for a while Judy Adams had gone stale, everything she's touched and done after her unceremonious 'shit-canning' here in and for this city PROVES to me that her heart and soul and mind are in the right place, aware, in touch, and concerned with the state of the music industry in this town. I've seen her with new talent, giving feedback and advice, through that Jazz Cafe program in the Music Hall.


We need a GM who does NOT act like a traditional radio executive...because they make poor decisions based upon numbers unweighted by reality. The Arbitron ratings are like any general feedback mechanism...they will provide general numbers, not specific ones...they are merely a measured GUESS masquerading as unvarnished exact truth.


We need a GM at WDET who knows the town, and knows that one of our best and most treasured assets is our amazing talent pool of musicians who are open to collaboration well beyond any form of categorical divisions. Witness the wonderful Carl Craig, whose work with Marcus Belgrave and other ground-breaking creators and nurturers keeps the eyes and ears of the entire WORLD on our fair city to develop the next best thing ever that hasn't yet been heard.

Marcus is yet another treasured soul whose focus is on raising up the next generation of music creators, he's been doing that in my perception since he ushered ANOTHER amazing musician and free soul, Regina Carter, onto the music scene in the mid-80s...and look how far she's gone in the world.



The music library and studios in the station are the largest and most valuable assets, and I would add the news room...the last authentic one in town, as long as Craggy and Quinn and Jerome and the 'franchise player' Celeste are in house. THAT is WDET.


I am overjoyed to conclude that those who argued for news all day were wrong. We DO need local news and interest, and that can be had in the Detroit Today program, which should remain so it doesn't need to be gutted if and when Craggy either chooses to move on or management chooses to move him up.

No business should ever be named for a person when it is about a place. Nor should there be confusion over another program's name...like they stupidly did allowing this new guy to usurp a franchise Ann Delisi was forging through her amazing talent and depth of rolodex FRIENDS she can immediately call upon.

Ann is a treasure, cemented in place in MY psyche for the wonderful interview and interaction with Susan Calloway just a few weeks ago. Susan is a wonderful talent and amazing woman who left town a number of years ago to get to another level in the industry out in LA...and is FINALLY really making it now, nearly twenty years hence...but Ann has known her all along, and that relationship was obvious throughout that segment of her show.


I've gone on too long...but my stand is that Detroit is a WORLD treasure for music creation. WDET is still in the position to focus on that, and use assets still in place to broadcast it to the world, and help turn this town into Music City North. We already know there is a huge draw from Manchester, Liverpool, and London...where Motown is revered, even to the point of a normal bloke putting $40k of his own cash and a whole bunch of his time to collaborate with Dennis Coffey and other original Motown sessionists on four new Motown-esque songs.



I am off my pedestal now. I still love this station, and I hope you all know that I love this town...and the musician base within it. Some of my most treasured friends are musicians and poets, and I would do anything to help them succeed...because I've seen too many of them struggle in near-destitution...when they should be treated like kings and queens.


There are folks like Marcus who've been around the block a few times, like my new friend Buddy Smith, with wisdom that can help this whole scene foster...funny now in retrospect I shouldn't have jumped ship on that thinktank committee formed to improve the music industry, but they were moving at a glacial speed and leaning towards their academic friends who are one or two steps removed from reality.


Perhaps it is time to start another...


Cheers and more...now for caffeine.

[smogboy]

Cheers and more...now for caffeine.

Wow. That was spot on and done without the aid of caffeine? I'm impressed!

[Gannon]

Smogboy,

Wow...while writing my novella, you said it all way more concisely.

I wholly agree.

May I add one thing? That schedule was NOT only compliant with 'normal' 9to5ers, there were a whole herd of folks with amorphous schedules who morphed them around what WDET put forth...now that you mention it, my deepest anger stems from them unsettling a rhythm and pace that revolved around the timing of their shows.

I woke up to WDET's news, enjoyed the music throughout the day, got caught up on the world with the evening news...usually had stuff to do at night so I'd miss Love's stuff, but then came back to have Liz Copeland turn me onto killer new stuff that I'd probably not ever encounter.


I know I'm not the only one who ran my day around WDET.

I can hear one bitter ex-intern know-it-all chime in with his criticism that 'those people didn't contribute money'; and to those who think like him I'd argue that the loss of income was due other economic forces. I and many of my creative friends would volunteer twice as often when we didn't have the cash to pour into the coffers.


Looking merely at donations and Arbitrons, and chasing away the volunteers [[thanks for that idiocy Mr. Bandyke) were the death-blow to WDET. We are trying to keep it alive, so I prescribe reversing the bad choices and returning to the old way...no matter what pride and the ignorant 'we already did that so we cannot do it again' folks say.

Cheers

[Gannon]

Again we cross-post!

I slept well last night. Heh.

Had a fabulous dinner and drinks with two of the greatest women I know from grade and high school...and I'm now on fire to get on with life.

[smogboy]

May I add one thing? That schedule was NOT only compliant with 'normal' 9to5ers, there were a whole herd of folks with amorphous schedules who morphed them around what WDET put forth...now that you mention it, my deepest anger stems from them unsettling a rhythm and pace that revolved around the timing of their shows.

While I never meant that WDET should serve us nine-to-fivers, you'd think that WDET would reach a larger audience if it could. And I agree that we are all creatures of habit; WDET had some great listener friendly scheduling back in the day. Even after the passing of Dave Dixon, we were all treated to more eclectic informed music because the station had the foresight to see that it was a format worth keeping.

I woke up to WDET's news, enjoyed the music throughout the day, got caught up on the world with the evening news...usually had stuff to do at night so I'd miss Love's stuff, but then came back to have Liz Copeland turn me onto killer new stuff that I'd probably not ever encounter.

I thought the best thing about listening to the radio was the discovery of new stuff. Liz Copeland probably made me stay up far too many nights than I care to talk about.

And that to me was the magic of listening to WDET... I didn't have to like the majority of the music BUT I was at least informed about it. I was educated by it. So what if I never ever buy a Thelonius Monk album- but I'm at least aware of his mighty contribution to music. This radio station is so unlike any other because it did have an educational component to it and I sometimes think that management forgets their unique niche in the market. We're not spoon fed our musical selections like so many other commercial radio stations. The WDET personalities we speak of play the music, post their playlists, inform us of the musicians, and are more importantly out in the community. They are the ones that study music all day long and bring that knowledge to us every day on the air. And maybe I'm putting a little too much authority into what it is each personality had, but we all knew they had their own individual voices in their selection of music.

I didn't always agree with what Judy Adams, Dave Dixon, Martin Bandyke, Willie Wilson, John Penney, Liz Copeland, Ed Love, Michael Julien or any of the other personalities played on the air but I also knew if I listened just a little longer, they'd play a gem that I'd have to grab a scrap piece of paper to write down the name of the song & artist. If not, I knew I'd be on the WDET website looking up the playlists.

You'd also think that record companies would be smart and savvy enough to trust radio personalities to select their artists to promote like this, but that's another discussion altogether about the music industry and how it promotes itself. UGH.

We are trying to keep it alive, so I prescribe reversing the bad choices and returning to the old way...no matter what pride and the ignorant 'we already did that so we cannot do it again' folks say.

I'm all for it.

[Gannon]

I'm with you, Smogger, wasn't arguing against your 9to5...merely expanding it to include those others!

I should look at my music catalog and determine how much of it was influenced by WDET. It might be 50% of the purchases DRIVEN by the education you elaborated.

Cheers

[3WC]

Although I get back to Detroit on business fairly frequently, I long ago got out of the habit of listening to WDET.

I used to listen to Ed Love frequently in Detroit.

Years ago he was syndicated. I would hear him occasionally at about 1 A.M. in Oklahoma City when I was doing deals out there. I wonder if he's still heard elsewhere.

[lafayette]

That Michael guy running the station is a failure. Look at his numbers that you can find anywhere on the internet. You may not think the numbers are important, but they are all he is measured by with his bosses. Guaranteed. His numbers are in the toilet.