The History Channel's "The People Speak" With Howard Zinn

[ziggyselbin]

Sorry I missed it. Howard Zinn has earned the right to his liberal views. Regardless we still live in the greatest country in the world. Not perfect, not without mistakes, now without guilt but still the greatest.

[Jimaz]

Matt Damon's Historic Documentary

[Lorax]

Rather like how the "SciFi" channel became the "SyFy" channel- now more into prepubescent little girls vampire fantasies and cage wrestling.

I've renamed it the "SighCry" Channel.

[elganned]

Well, I'm sure it's a sign of the Apocalypse, but I agree with Mikeg and Patrick. The History Channel has fallen of late from its once attractive educational levels.

[rb336]

and how long has "the learning channel" been in the gutter? TLC should now just be "the low-life channel"

[MCP-001]

I didn't watch this when it first aired, and only caught it when someone asked about some of the information presented during the show.

While I don't disagree with looking at History from different perspectives, it doesn't help the presenter when they make things up.

Case in point: "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." changed from "Life, Liberty and property"?

Sorry, from what revisionist historical source did that little nugget come from?

I caught that lie right off of the bat.

I found it sad that History [[they no longer refer to themselves as The History Channel since Nancy Dubuc took it over several years ago), couldn't do something as simple as fact-check their programming.

Ultimately though, I shouldn't really be that surprised.

Mrs. Dubuc was the person who green-lighted their current lineup of History-themed programming such as IRT, Gangland, Pawn Stars, UFO Hunters, Monster Quest, Life After People and the never-ending Nostrodomus-ish pablum they're shoveling out on how the world will end.

GIGO.

[ccbatson]

Jeez...what did TLC do to piss off liberals? Tell the truth?

[Rideron]

Matt Damon's Historic Documentary

Matt Damon's Historic Documentary? Matt Damon's????

OK Matt, next how about giving us your latest on astrophysics, international economics, zooplankton biology and French cooking, too???

And next week! Conan O'Brien's in depth documentary on "Pre-Colombian political dynastic Succession in the Yucatan" followed by Suzanne Sommer's "Stretch Pilates as practiced by Jacobean insurrectionists in the French and Indian Wars"

[Jimaz]

One interesting aspect of a "movement" whose rhetoric is being unwittingly pushed to irrational extremes of hyperbole is that it makes it that much more difficult to satirize. How can one compete against those who are that determined to marginalize themselves as bitter extremists?

No matter. They become their own satirists, self destructively. The process needs no assistance.

[oldredfordette]

If Matt Damon hadn't 1) grown up next door to Howard Zinn and 2) made a zillion dollars making movies, the People Speak would not have been made. Damon financed and used his leverage to get the play produced and aired. He strikes me as a thoughtful, intelligent and committed man. Good for Matt.

Didn't watch it, did you, Rideron?

[ccbatson]

An "intelligent" person must have a command of reason and critical thinking. If a liberal is [[or could be) such a person, to remain liberal is to deny or suppress those skills rendering them, until such time as they throw off the encumbrances of liberalism, unintelligent. Therefore, Damon, amongst many others, fail the litmus test.

[ccbatson]

There are a growing number of conservative entertainers...many of whom are closeted right now.

[barnesfoto]

While I'm not gonna run out and get a television, it's enjoyable to hear the reactionaries kicking up such a fuss about some actors reading passages from history book; in particular a history book that highlights many of the changes that American Liberals are responsible for....
On a positive note, the cultists seem to have stopped whining about the end of slavery, women's voting rights, the end of child labor, the twin "communist" plots of fluoridated drinking water and civil rights, and the "radical environmentalist" outlawing of lead use in paints and gasoline.
Predictably though, anything with actors other than Ronald Reagan or Vin Diesel is immediately " biased socialist propaganda" for our friends, [[Heaven forbid- a group of actors read non-fiction aloud!)
This is precisely why some of us describe our ranting friends as "sick cultists".

[MCP-001]

Curious how people are bashing the objections to program, yet fail to address in inaccuracies portrayed within it.

[barnesfoto]

well that's an interesting comment, coming from a guy who's posted false alarmist dribble from Lou Dobbs about illegals bringing dreaded 19th century diseases...

Why don't you list the inaccuracies.

Life liberty and pursuit of happiness vs life liberty and property is apparently some sort of huge glaring lie? What is the context, for those of us who don't partake in TV but have enjoyed Zinn's writing?

It sounds like different versions of the same idea to me.

[Johnlodge]

Jeez...what did TLC do to piss off liberals? Tell the truth?

TLC has been crap for years now. That's why it's TLC and not The Learning Channel. John and Kate? LA Ink? I'll learn somewhere else.

[rb336]

An "intelligent" person must have a command of reason and critical thinking. If a liberal is [[or could be) such a person, to remain liberal is to deny or suppress those skills rendering them, until such time as they throw off the encumbrances of liberalism, unintelligent. Therefore, Damon, amongst many others, fail the litmus test.

and that, in one post, sums up your utter lack of understanding of the concepts of both reason and critical thinking

[elganned]

well that's an interesting comment, coming from a guy who's posted false alarmist dribble from Lou Dobbs about illegals bringing dreaded 19th century diseases...

Why don't you list the inaccuracies.

Life liberty and pursuit of happiness vs life liberty and property is apparently some sort of huge glaring lie? What is the context, for those of us who don't partake in TV but have enjoyed Zinn's writing?

It sounds like different versions of the same idea to me.

I have not watched the program, but the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" comes from the Declaration, whereas the phrase "life, liberty, and property" comes from the preamble to the Constituion. Therein lies the difference.

If "...the pursuit of happiness" was attributed to the Constitution, the attribution was in error.

[elganned]

An "intelligent" person must have a command of reason and critical thinking. If a liberal is [[or could be) such a person, to remain liberal is to deny or suppress those skills rendering them, until such time as they throw off the encumbrances of liberalism, unintelligent. Therefore, Damon, amongst many others, fail the litmus test.

Thereby you demonstrate your own failure both in critical thinking and in adherence to your own "axiom" of absolutes.

Logic is an absolute, dogma is not. To the extent that you use dogma [[adherence to conservative principles) as the criterion by which to measure logical thinking, you fail. Cart before the horse.

The prosecution rests.

[MCP-001]

I have not watched the program, but the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" comes from the Declaration, whereas the phrase "life, liberty, and property" comes from the preamble to the Constituion. Therein lies the difference.

If "...the pursuit of happiness" was attributed to the Constitution, the attribution was in error.

Actually, "Life, Liberty & Property" came from John Locke from England.

Locke died in 1704.

The only place where the Life, liberty & property quote is used is in the US Constitution is 14th Amendment.

Sorry barnesfoto, but if you're too cheap to go out and buy a TV and get cable/satellite, arguing what was on TV is a little difficult.

Come back when you're completely in the 21st Century, then we'll talk.

[barnesfoto]

Well, some of you seem to be suggesting that the quality of TV has been going down.
I noticed that in the 20th century, and have been TV free for years. I'm certainly not gonna get one now. It has nothing to do with frugalness, though I confess to being frugal.

The program we were arguing about concerns actors reading passages from a BOOK.

Zinn's book discusses, to give one example, how Christopher Columbus arrived in the Caribbean Islands thinking that he was in India, and proceeded to enslave the inhabitants. Zinn's BOOK also discusses the myths in US history books about Columbus, as well as the glaring omissions;

The taxpayer-purchased books that I was issued public schools many years ago told me that Columbus was a visionary [[true) that thought the world was round when everybody else thought that it was flat [[lie), and ignored the fact that the people that he encountered on the Islands were quickly enslaved and exterminated. None of their names [[Taino, Arawak, Carib, etc) were ever mentioned in my taxpayer funded history book. Nor did my taxpayer purchased history book ever mention the name of the leader of the first insurrection against European Colonization [[Hatuey) or the fact that Columbus eventually died a raving religious maniac who assured everyone that the end days were at hand.

The inclusion of those huge, glaring omissions, are just a tiny example of why I like Zinn's book. There are other places to get this history, if one doesn't like Zinn. Zinn is obviously a leftist.

A good place to start is a book by the first white guy to walk around in what is now the US...or at least the first white guy to walk around and write a book discussing the people that he met, most of whom were eventually exterminated.
"Shipwrecked" by Alvar Nunez Cabeza de Vaca.

[elganned]

Actually, "Life, Liberty & Property" came from John Locke from England.

Locke died in 1704.

The only place where the Life, liberty & property quote is used is in the US Constitution is 14th Amendment.

I stand corrected. So, where's the problem?

[MCP-001]

I stand corrected. So, where's the problem?

I don't have the DVD right in front of me at the moment, so I'm going from memory on this one.

Part of Zinn's presentation involved claiming that the Founders originally used 'Life, Liberty and Property" for about 10 years, and then changed it to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

The 14th Amendment was written nearly a century after the Founders had their hand in Declaration or Constitution.

[elganned]

Um, yeah...that would be incorrect on Zinn's part, if he did in fact say it.

[[Also, the "life, liberty, property" phrase appears in a slightly different form as "life, liberty, OR property" in the Fifth Ammendment. But nowhere else that I can find.)

[ccbatson]

THe phrase stands well as it is...no need to change or question it.