Isn't that what TEACHERS are for?

[EMG]

Isn't there an attendance policy in effect now? I remember years ago there was a truant officer who would go to the homes of kids that didn't show up for school. Parents should be made responsible for their kids while they are of age. Threatened jail time, fines...whatever it takes to get them involved should be implemented in Detroit. Right now, Detroit sounds like a third world country.

Very true, but unfortunately, law enforcement in Detroit was pretty much gutted by Coleman Young back in '74. I would be pretty surprised if "truant" officers were even still in the picture.

[English]

They are in reality just lazy. If it's easier and less embarrassing to tell your kid tough luck then that is what they will do. Right now, the kid causes them more grief than the school so they choose to fight with the school. Fairly simple really.

Amen, and a thousand times I say, "Amen", Andy.

I'll never forget the parent of a disruptive student with a nasty attitude I called several years ago. The woman cursed me out and told me NEVER to call her at home again. She told me that when her daughter was at school that "SHE IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!" [[caps indicate yelling). This was because she had several other children at home and was trying to feed her baby, and "here you come CALLIN' from down at that school!!! DO YOUR JOB!!!"

When I hung up, I was furious In the end, I did take care of her daughter, and began to shut her down with sarcasm and checking her mercilessly [[I have yet to meet the teenager that I'm scared of). She chose to transfer out of my class midyear. She disliked her new teacher more, but I wouldn't let her transfer back. It's not her fault that she has an idiot for a mother, and I hope she's done well for herself in adult life in spite of incredibly bad odds.

That's a minor story compared to some that I could tell, and I'm sure that DT could tell.

[DetroitTeacher]

Sumas: Thanks for your decision to help with the reading program. I have several young people in mind, but I fear that by the time the program has a chance to start, they will have graduated. They have learning disabilities and I just don't have the heart to fail them because they DO try THEIR best. I work with them after school and during every free chance I have [[which isn't many).

English: I can totally relate to the angry parents when a teacher calls home. I have been on the receiving end many times of anger. I was even yelled at when I called home to tell the parent that their child was doing MUCH better in my class and I was shocked when the parent started cursing at me. It appears they were sleeping and the phone woke them up. Oops, my bad!

[mwilbert]

I don't think there is any way to make a parent care about their children's education. However, a large majority of people care what people think of them. Right now, it appears that the norm in Detroit is apathy, so no one is going to feel peer pressure to be involved. Just as we have made smoking a lot less acceptable over the past forty or so years through public education, I think it is probably possible to make indifference to your child's schooling less acceptable, through a long-duration education effort.

Maybe it wouldn't work, but being an involved parent can be a lot of effort, and you need some motivation to make that effort. I suspect a significant difference between your typical suburban parent and what is being described in this thread as a typical DPS parent is that the suburban parent probably has a higher degree of confidence in the efficacy of education--poor minority parents have some reason to be skeptical, after all. People make a greater effort if they think there is likely to be a payoff. It would be great if the DPS parents had that confidence, but in its absence you need something else.

[Wintersmommy]

I volunteered...my child is struggling with reading as well and i have been working with her at home nightly so this will just be an extension of what i am already doing. I dont care who is to blame anymore, i just want to see a change. We are losing a generation or more of kids to ignorance and someday these kids will grow up and be ignorant uneducated adults, if i can help prevent this i will. Their parents are either unwilling or unable to help so the responsibility must be taken up by someone else..no one can afford for this many kids to fail. I am over worked and over extended already but i just cant see not volunteering, even if i can only help out a few hours a week i will. I am not expecting miracles but having been a mentor for the past 4 years i can tell you that they happen when you least expect it.

As for the turn out for parent teacher conferences in the burbs I can only speak for my daughter’s school. We are in the Warren Con district and there were at least 6 parents that did not show up for conferences in my daughters class alone

[Buy American]

[quote=DetroitTeacher;101341]Sumas: Thanks for your decision to help with the reading program. I have several young people in mind, but I fear that by the time the program has a chance to start, they will have graduated. They have learning disabilities and I just don't have the heart to fail them because they DO try THEIR best. I work with them after school and during every free chance I have [[which isn't many[[quote)

Don't you think you are doing a great disservice to those students with learning disabilities by passing them; when you know, as a professional, that they shouldn't be passed? Even if they are DOING/TRYING their best, the DPS system is giving them a false sense of security by passing them. Once out in the "real" world, reality will hit them harder than if they were held back a grade or not passed at all. I am only asking a question here, not trying to start some big controversy.

[Thames]

My mom never went to p/t conferences. Ever. I don't think it made her a bad parent. I caught hell for a bad grade and got money for a good grade. .50 for a B and a $1 for an A.

Mom was busy supporting the family by herself. She had little time or energy for anything else. Can't judge a mom based on whether she goes to p/t conferences or not. The only time she ever stepped foot in the school was if I was in a play or something. Even then, it didn't always work out that she could come.

[DetroitTeacher]

I am working with the students with learning disabilities each day. The effort alone that they put forth is amazing. Are they reading at grade level? No. Do they complete every assignment? No. Do they at least attempt each assignment? Yes. Are they seeking out the help that they need? Yes. Have they been shortchanged since elementary school? Yes. Will failing them do them any good? No. Do they have other qualities or skills that they can use to support themselves? Yes. If I don't pass them, more than likely they would drop out [[they are seniors) and turn to something that is NOT constructive [[crime?). At least this way, they will continue to seek the help they need because they realize there are people willing to help them. They ARE trying to do better but they are struggling. I do offer alternative assignments for everyone [[not just my kids with LDs) that is not all just paper and pen. What good will it do to fail a kid who can't help what issues [[educational) they are dealing with? These kids have IEPs, strong support in the school and are busting their butts to do what they do. I am making a judgement call on this one since I know the kids and I know what they are capable of and what they aren't capable of. The kids of whom I speak aren't going to miraculously read at grade level because I hold them back. It would just tell them that they aren't good enough and won't ever make it.

[Buy American]

DetroitTeacher, thanks for answering my question. Good luck and God bless you for your hard work.

[Thames]

Sumas: Thanks for your decision to help with the reading program. I have several young people in mind, but I fear that by the time the program has a chance to start, they will have graduated. They have learning disabilities and I just don't have the heart to fail them because they DO try THEIR best. I work with them after school and during every free chance I have [[which isn't many

Don't you think you are doing a great disservice to those students with learning disabilities by passing them; when you know, as a professional, that they shouldn't be passed? Even if they are DOING/TRYING their best, the DPS system is giving them a false sense of security by passing them. Once out in the "real" world, reality will hit them harder than if they were held back a grade or not passed at all. I am only asking a question here, not trying to start some big controversy.

"Learning disability" doesn't necessarily mean that they are not grasping the concepts. A lot of very smart people are labeled "learning disabled" because they don't fit into the box of traditional learning methods and testing. It takes a dedicated person to think outside of the box for these people so they can reach their potential.

[firstandten]

Very true, but unfortunately, law enforcement in Detroit was pretty much gutted by Coleman Young back in '74. I would be pretty surprised if "truant" officers were even still in the picture.

How was Coleman at fault ?

[sumas]

"Learning disability" doesn't necessarily mean that they are not grasping the concepts. A lot of very smart people are labeled "learning disabled" because they don't fit into the box of traditional learning methods and testing. It takes a dedicated person to think outside of the box for these people so they can reach their potential.

I so agree, many years ago we had neighbors with two kids. Both were labeled ADD. Their mom was a screaming bitch. I still recall how she would yell at the kids take your pill and go to bed. She was a real shrew. I seriously question drugging kids. I would help them with homework and projects.

I particularly liked doing projects with them. They always got A's when I helped. I did not do their work for them. What I found is they were creative and eager for positive attention. What they couldn't seem to do was organize their thoughts to translate into a finished product. All I did was listen to their ideas and helped give structure on how they could translate ideas into action.

[sumas]

Sad and silly story about truant officers. My sons ages are several years apart. My youngest son [[three at the time) had to go to a new sitter since his wonderful sitter became ill. This new sitter expected me to shove my little one into the door and leave without seeing her . Of course I would not do that. Unfortunately, this would make my eldest 5 to 10 minutes late for school. While I understand this was somewhat disruptive for the teacher, I really had no choice. She reported us to a truant officer.

I should mention here that my son was a straight A student and never missed school.

This poor truant officer came to the house several times and of course we were not home. He finally called me one evening and I have to admit I felt insulted. We had a nice conversation and he was mad as hell at the teacher. He told me with all the real truancy problems the teacher plain out wasted his time. She did get in trouble for that.

I finally resolved my problem by quitting a very good job and became a stay at home Mom. PS: I was driving close to 40 miles a day to get my eldest into a good public school.

[courtney]

Perhaps I am missing something, but why the hell isn't there a district wide attendance policy?

I graduated in 97 from a school district in a state that is constantly the butt of shitty education jokes and yet the state board of education had a policy that you couldn't miss more than 10 days of class per year [[5 for a semester long class) without a dr's note and you'd fail the class. It was a slight pain in the ass for people like myself who were on the honor roll yet often sick but it prevented a whole lot of issues.

The individual district had a tardy policy that also prevented chronic "oversleeping" - 3 tardies were counted as one absence.

While it would be nice to ASSume that parents would give a crap about their offsprings' education, that's obviously not happening. A clear non-debatable policy would make it easy for teachers and admins to simply show the parent the policy and say "sorry, no debate".

[mwilbert]

Perhaps I am missing something, but why the hell isn't there a district wide attendance policy?

I graduated in 97 from a school district in a state that is constantly the butt of shitty education jokes and yet the state board of education had a policy that you couldn't miss more than 10 days of class per year [[5 for a semester long class) without a dr's note and you'd fail the class. It was a slight pain in the ass for people like myself who were on the honor roll yet often sick but it prevented a whole lot of issues.

The individual district had a tardy policy that also prevented chronic "oversleeping" - 3 tardies were counted as one absence.

While it would be nice to ASSume that parents would give a crap about their offsprings' education, that's obviously not happening. A clear non-debatable policy would make it easy for teachers and admins to simply show the parent the policy and say "sorry, no debate".

Because an insanely high percentage of the students would fail, and probably drop out? I have a close relative who used to teach some of these kids at a Detroit charter school, and now teaches them in another program. Unless I misunderstand him, there are many days when he has only a handful of kids who bother to show up. They don't show up on nice days, because it is nice and they would rather be somewhere else. They don't show up on cold days because it is too cold to go out.
These are kids whose parents at least had enough interest to put them into a charter, albeit a really bad one.

These were high-school age kids, and I didn't get the impression their parents were really in control of their time. I could imagine such a policy might be more effective in the lower grades, and get the kids in the habit of always showing up, but I don't know if that is actually true.

[DetroitTeacher]

I wish the district had an attendance policy. There is not one currently in place. I hate having to explain to anyone why a child failed my class because they "only" had 30 absences....it should be a no brainer.

[EMG]

Rochelle Riley has written a column today about this topic:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...te=fullarticle


"Mike Thomas arrives at Detroit's Chrysler Elementary every weekday at 2 p.m. He helps direct traffic. He tutors. He buys toilet paper.

Mike Thomas isn't the principal. He is a Detroit Public Schools parent. And every time he sees a news story about the failures of the district and how lazy parents are, he gets angry.




That's because the stories aren't about him. Complaints about teachers aren't about his wife, Shannon, who continues to work after school until 11 p.m. every night creating exciting lesson plans, grading papers and making sure her students have food and coats.
"The parents at our school -- we work hard," he said. "I know those parents you're talking about, but it's not us."
Ninety-three miles away from that school, state Rep. George Cushingberry, D-Detroit, lauds parents like the Thomases.
But he wants to do something about the other parents, the ones who are too young, or who don't read well enough to help their children. He is sensitive to those for whom poverty has been an obstacle.
But Cushingberry -- and I -- want something done to help teachers whose classrooms are filled with kids whose parents have let them down. Whether they are behaviorally challenged or just woefully, academically behind, they make it harder to teach good students. And there are many good students in DPS.
"How can we continue to penalize the children for their parents?" he said. "I wish I had a way around it."
There ought to be a law


There is a way around it. The state should require parents to sign an education contract with penalties. Parents who dismiss their duties toward their children's education pay a fine. Guilty parents who get state aid risk their checks.
No, I didn't marry Rush Limbaugh over the weekend.
I'm channeling my grandparents, conservative Democrats who earned everything they got and demanded educational excellence from every child they knew.
I'm channeling Edna Cushingberry, a loving, demanding mother whose son, George, grew up to become a lawyer and state legislator. And Cushingberry wants such a contract made mandatory for parents who receive aid from the Department of Human Services.
"If you receive a state check, you will see to it that your kids are at school on time and prepared," he said.
Sign the dotted line -- for cash

The contract would require that parents:
• Assure their children's daily, on-time school attendance. [[School is mandatory. Enrollment through age 16 is mandatory. The only thing not mandated is parental responsibility.)
• Teach young children necessities, Cushingberry said, such as their names, their primary colors and the alphabet.
Why should such an overbearing document even be necessary? Because, historically, Michigan hasn't believed in education:
• Legislators, only three years ago, increased statewide high school graduation requirements from one civics class to a standard curriculum.
• Social promotion is not only still legal, but the norm.
• Only a quarter of Michigan residents over 25 have a college degree, and an estimated 44% who are 16 and over read below fourth-grade levels.
Between legislators such as Cushingberry, parents like Mike Thomas and teachers like Shannon Thomas, many of whom do six jobs [[teach, feed, clothe, counsel, transport and parent) -- there is hope.
But the solution requires more than tough love. It will take being tough on anyone, on everyone, who is failing kids.
Especially their parents."

[DetroitTeacher]

Good idea but I doubt it will fly. There was something a few years back that would hold parents legally responsible [[jail time) if their kids didn't attend school. That didn't fly either. I am willing to try anything but it's difficult for a parent to require their kid to attend school when the parent is afraid of their kid...and many are. What to do with the kids who are cognitively impaired or learning disabled and it takes them longer to learn primary colors and their name and address and such? Many of the problem kids that I see in DPS don't respect their parents, the police, the teachers, or other kids. I don't see them changing so their parent can get a check...

[EMG]

Here's another recent column by Walter Williams - http://townhall.com/columnists/Walte...lack_education

I wonder where he finds some of his facts though. Especially "Students who have chosen education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any other major." Frankly, I doubt that.

"Detroit's [[predominantly black) public schools are the worst in the nation and it takes some doing to be worse than Washington, D.C. Only 3 percent of Detroit's fourth-graders scored proficient on the most recent National Assessment of Education Progress [[NAEP) test, sometimes called "The Nation's Report Card." Twenty-eight percent scored basic and 69 percent below basic. "Below basic" is the NAEP category when students are unable to demonstrate even partial mastery of knowledge and skills fundamental for proficient work at their grade level. It's the same story for Detroit's eighth-graders. Four percent scored proficient, 18 percent basic and 77 percent below basic.

Michael Casserly, executive director of the D.C.-based Council on Great City Schools, in an article appearing in Crain's Detroit Business, [[12/8/09) titled, "Detroit's Public Schools Post Worst Scores on Record in National Assessment," said, "There is no jurisdiction of any kind, at any level, at any time in the 30-year history of NAEP that has ever registered such low numbers." The academic performance of black students in other large cities such as Philadelphia, Chicago, New York and Los Angeles is not much better than Detroit and Washington.


What's to be done about this tragic state of black education? The education establishment and politicians tell us that we need to spend more for higher teacher pay and smaller class size. The fact of business is higher teacher salaries and smaller class sizes mean little or nothing in terms of academic achievement. Washington, D.C., for example spends over $15,000 per student, has class sizes smaller than the nation's average, and with an average annual salary of $61,195, its teachers are the most highly paid in the nation.

What about role models? Standard psychobabble asserts a positive relationship between the race of teachers and administrators and student performance. That's nonsense. Black academic performance is the worst in the very cities where large percentages of teachers and administrators are black, and often the school superintendent is black, the mayor is black, most of the city council is black and very often the chief of police is black.

Black people have accepted hare-brained ideas that have made large percentages of black youngsters virtually useless in an increasingly technological economy. This destruction will continue until the day comes when black people are willing to turn their backs on liberals and the education establishment's agenda and confront issues that are both embarrassing and uncomfortable. To a lesser extent, this also applies to whites because the educational performance of many white kids is nothing to write home about; it's just not the disaster that black education is.

Many black students are alien and hostile to the education process. They have parents with little interest in their education. These students not only sabotage the education process, but make schools unsafe as well. These students should not be permitted to destroy the education chances of others. They should be removed or those students who want to learn should be provided with a mechanism to go to another school.

Another issue deemed too delicate to discuss is the overall quality of people teaching our children. Students who have chosen education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any other major. Students who have an education degree earn lower scores than any other major on graduate school admission tests such as the GRE, MCAT or LSAT. Schools of education, either graduate or undergraduate, represent the academic slums of most any university. They are home to the least able students and professors. Schools of education should be shut down.

Yet another issue is the academic fraud committed by teachers and administrators. After all, what is it when a student is granted a diploma certifying a 12th grade level of achievement when in fact he can't perform at the sixth- or seventh-grade level?

Prospects for improvement in black education are not likely given the cozy relationship between black politicians, civil rights organizations and teacher unions."

[DetroitTeacher]

What a racist article! At my school, we have a really diverse teaching staff which makes for a more diverse view on subjects [[although, I was teaching AA lit until I wondered if there might be a teacher who could give the kids a better understanding and could relate to the subject a tad more than I, giving the kids a more authentic viewpoint other than my white perspective...not that I didn't know the literature and couldn't teach it, I just felt I wasn't doing it justice).

I don't think the skin color of the people teaching kids matters...what matters is the kids knowing that we care and are busting our butts to do what we can for them.

[oldredfordette]

That entire site is horrifying. It adds nothing to the discussion except a dollop of hate.

[firstandten]

I’ve come to the conclusion that even though I am not inclined to agree very much with black conservative/libertarians like Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell there are some things to consider. I’ve empirically witnessed some of the very things Williams talks about. I’ve seen people in college go into education because they made a decision that this would be the fastest, best way of getting a good paying job and not because of a love for kids or for teaching for that matter. I even made comments to people to the effect that I love partying with these folks but I wouldn’t want them teaching my kids. Now I wouldn’t insult the committed educators who do a good job by calling your college of education an “academic slum� like he did but I think there is a lot of that going on and unfortunately that attitude plays out 10-15 years later when that person is tired of unruly kids, parents who don’t have a clue[[many of which are a result of babies having babies) and administrators who were teachers and many of them went thru that same decision making process. However that person has so much invested in time on the job and that person knows they won’t [[can’t) be removed. That makes for a bad situation and in the end the kids suffer.

When something is broken I am not a believer in trying to fix something that is fundamentally broken by continuing to do the same things or by throwing money at it. You could pay a teacher $ 61,000 or $161,000 it wouldn’t make a difference because the system is broken. We continue to teach kids using an 20th century model [[an early 20th century model at that). The world of education has to come to grips with what is the goal? Is it to educate, is it to prepare them to be employees, business owners etc. When you factor in black kids, historically we have been at the bottom of the economic totem pole even though over the years the ability black kids had to leave high school and go into some manufacturing area[[ mostly automotive) or government jobs was starting to close that gap. Manufacturing is gone now, conservatives want to reduce the size of government until it can fit in your hand, and realistically some of these kids aren’t college material. They can’t see the payoff at the end and neither can their parents.

I don’t know all the answers but I know you can’t do things the same way hoping for a different result or tinker around the edges. That’s why I think the latest contract between DPS and DFT is at least a start in a new direction

Finally one of the best classes I had in college was an elective focusing on the culture and history of sub-Saharan Africa When I saw my white prof walk in I thought oh-no what a waste. The man knew his stuff and made the material enjoyable so even though it helps sometimes to be black when teaching these kinds of courses its not always the case.

[klingon2004]

As a teacher in Detroit, its totally amazing that these kids get any education at all. On most day I have 8 - 10 kids absent. There is no attendance policy in place. When you call home the phone is disconnected. I would love someone from the suburbs to come into the city to see all the dedicated teachers there are in the city and how much money we have to spend to get our classrooms in order.

[klingon2004]

Come into the city and see what life is like for these kids. They get free breakfast and free lunch. That is probably the only two meals they get each day. No heat in homes etc. come on down and see what a school day is like. You wouldn't last tow days teaching in Detroit

[DetroitTeacher]

Kling, you have money to spend to get your class in order? I want some money for that! I spend my OWN money to buy stuff for my class [[although, the new principal is purchasing supplies for us but up until this year, it was out of my pocket or nothing).