Isn't that what TEACHERS are for?

**Frankg** · December-15-09, 10:41 AM

I volunteered.

**EMG** · December-15-09, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Brainiac

Is it the teachers - or the parents?

I argue NEITHER, it is a fundamentally flawed system.

Moral teaching is not allowed at school, and thus, often never taught. I would do everything in my power not to send my kids into that dreadful system, including quiting my job and homeschooling.

Agreed for the most part. However, "morality" IS very much taught at schools - the only question is, is it good or bad morality? [[Or, to keep this objective - morality with which the parent would agree?)

In either case, the ultimate responsibility to keep abreast of and maintain control over the extent to which school systems are allowed to instill their brand of "morality" still lies very much with the parents as the ultimate guardians of their children's welfare. [[Rebecca Hagelin is one blogger/columnist who gives some very forceful and well-substantiated arguments from this standpoint).

**English** · December-15-09, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

English: We will be at the Trotter House in A2 at about 9:30ish. I think we are in the basement area. Our bus leaves at 8:00 [[we are never on time leaving). I'd love to see you there! The more the merrier...

DT, I forgot to check the thread this morning! I'm so very sorry I missed you guys... I'll PM you my email address because I would love to stay in touch...

**DetroitTeacher** · December-15-09, 06:32 PM

English: I will be making a video of the performance over break and will be more than happy to send you a copy.

**rb336** · December-16-09, 10:15 AM

serious question -

who taught YOU to read? for the lack of very basic skills in reading and math, look not to the teachers, but to the parents. I was reading, writing, adding and subtracting before ever setting foot in a school. so were most of the kids I knew. We learned at home, with our parents readinbg to us and encouraging us, with our parents playing games with us that required basic math [[that means ANY dice games where you have to count the spaces you move. I was also playing cribbage at 3)

Stosh · December-16-09, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

serious question -

who taught YOU to read? for the lack of very basic skills in reading and math, look not to the teachers, but to the parents. I was reading, writing, adding and subtracting before ever setting foot in a school. so were most of the kids I knew. We learned at home, with our parents readinbg to us and encouraging us, with our parents playing games with us that required basic math [[that means ANY dice games where you have to count the spaces you move. I was also playing cribbage at 3)

Exactly. The building blocks should be laid well before school even starts.

**SWMAP** · December-16-09, 10:37 AM

It is certainly true that parents and family are the first teachers. However, the work of Maria Montessori in the slums of Italy proved that early childhood interventions can dramatically improve the educational futures of children from impoverished and negligent homes. In our country the Head Start program is another real example of success.

**econ expat** · December-16-09, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

serious question -

who taught YOU to read? for the lack of very basic skills in reading and math, look not to the teachers, but to the parents. I was reading, writing, adding and subtracting before ever setting foot in a school. so were most of the kids I knew. We learned at home, with our parents readinbg to us and encouraging us, with our parents playing games with us that required basic math [[that means ANY dice games where you have to count the spaces you move. I was also playing cribbage at 3)

I taught myself to read, as most do- parents 'coached'.

Ask my oldest daughter the same question- she laughs that she was one of the last kids in the US to learn with 'Dick and Jane' [[thrift store textbooks, we lived a long ways from a library) Bitter experience- Her Kindergarden teacher scolded me for teaching her too young, now she'll get bored or make the other kids look dumb. She did fine all the way through her academic career.
Ask my younger kids the same question and they'll say their teachers taught them. But they really taught themselves. The teachers and I coached and encouraged them. They wanted to learn to read, and so they did.They really also taught themselves.And did fine all the way through school.

Teachers and mentors, etc can make a difference as long as peer pressure is not to just excel at athletics and street smarts.Not a new problem, is it? It just seems to have gotten out of control in DPS.The charter schools can and do mandate more parental involvement, leaving a higher % of students in DPS with little or no parental authority.

**DetroitTeacher** · December-16-09, 05:59 PM

We had Parent/Teacher conferences today. Guess how many parents I saw? FOUR. Yes, FOUR. I have 170 kids [[all seniors). I'll see a bunch more when I hand out the Fs...all of the parents will be asking for "make-up" work or asking "what can they do?" My response: "Nothing...they can do nothing. I allow for make-up work and give every opportunity for your child to pass my class. It's a bit late now. I was really disappointed I didn't see you at Parent/Teacher conferences when I could have informed you of his/her progress. I am also sorry that your mail came back as undeliverable and your number has been disconnected. I was unable to reach you to inform you of your child's progress."

Buy American · December-16-09, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

We had Parent/Teacher conferences today. Guess how many parents I saw? FOUR. Yes, FOUR. I have 170 kids [[all seniors). I'll see a bunch more when I hand out the Fs...all of the parents will be asking for "make-up" work or asking "what can they do?" My response: "Nothing...they can do nothing. I allow for make-up work and give every opportunity for your child to pass my class. It's a bit late now. I was really disappointed I didn't see you at Parent/Teacher conferences when I could have informed you of his/her progress. I am also sorry that your mail came back as undeliverable and your number has been disconnected. I was unable to reach you to inform you of your child's progress."

This doesn't surprise me at all. So, because of the lack of concern from 166 parents, we all need to volunteer to come to school to help these unfortunate children??? Time to enact some rigid laws that will address this with parents and make them responsible for their children, not others. Sorry if this seems cold and heartless, but I and others have done their time taking care of their own kids and making sure they grew up to be responsible, hardworking, productive citizens. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to do this.

**EMG** · December-16-09, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

We had Parent/Teacher conferences today. Guess how many parents I saw? FOUR. Yes, FOUR. I have 170 kids [[all seniors).

Based on that evidence, I can now just about rest my case.

**EMG** · December-16-09, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

This doesn't surprise me at all. So, because of the lack of concern from 166 parents, we all need to volunteer to come to school to help these unfortunate children??? Time to enact some rigid laws that will address this with parents and make them responsible for their children, not others. Sorry if this seems cold and heartless, but I and others have done their time taking care of their own kids and making sure they grew up to be responsible, hardworking, productive citizens. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to do this.

Precisely.

It would be interesting to hear from some teachers in some of the suburban districts. If there are any teachers out there from the public school systems of Eastpointe, Grosse Pointe, Warren, etc., it would be great to hear from you. Do teachers from the suburbs experience similar parental turnout statistics?

**EMG** · December-16-09, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by econ expat

Her Kindergarden teacher scolded me for teaching her too young, now she'll get bored or make the other kids look dumb.

Unbelievable! I hope you reported that teacher to the principal. Any teacher with an attitude like that should be fired on the spot. I'm sure she's not representive of DPS teachers, but if she were, that would certainly explain a lot!!!!

**Thames** · December-16-09, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by EMG

Precisely.

It would be interesting to hear from some teachers in some of the suburban districts. If there are any teachers out there from the public school systems of Eastpointe, Grosse Pointe, Warren, etc., it would be great to hear from you. Do teachers from the suburbs experience similar parental turnout statistics?

I'm not a teacher, but I'm a parent with children in a suburban school district and p/t conferences are crazy. It takes 2-3 hours to see all the teachers and you're limited to 7 minutes with each teacher.

My strategy is to leave the gym teacher for last because the grades and citizenship are always good in that class. If there is a line 7 or 8 deep, I know I have about an hour wait so I skip that teacher and go home. I've already been there two hours and I don't feel like waiting around for an extra hour, just to hear the teacher tell me the kid is doing good. [[I know, I'm a bad parent)

I don't know if all districts are like that, I'm only familiar with two.

**EMG** · December-16-09, 08:23 PM

Thanks for posting - that's equally as illuminative as a teacher's comment would have been. Any more suburban parents out there?

Buy American · December-16-09, 09:59 PM

Suburban grandparent. I can tell you that my grown children go to their childrens' conferences [[ which they have done diligently for the past 7 years), they see the teachers and usually have to wait because of the crowds. In my suburban school district, things are done correctly in the school district, 99.9% of the parents are representative, attentive, responsive, and supportive of their children AND the teachers.

**DetroitTeacher** · December-16-09, 10:20 PM

When I attended my son's [[he's all grown up now) p/t conferences in suburban schools, I always had to wait in long lines to see the teachers. The crowds were like a Black Friday super duper sale. Often, I could not see all of the teachers because there were too many parents and not enough time. I always arrived too early and stayed late [[often walking and talking with a teacher all the way to his/her car), just to try and see everyone I needed to see. My son's teachers were always well aware of my phone number/email and I would drop by after school sometimes, just to check on things.

Buy American · December-16-09, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

When I attended my son's [[he's all grown up now) p/t conferences in suburban schools, I always had to wait in long lines to see the teachers. The crowds were like a Black Friday super duper sale. Often, I could not see all of the teachers because there were too many parents and not enough time. I always arrived too early and stayed late [[often walking and talking with a teacher all the way to his/her car), just to try and see everyone I needed to see. My son's teachers were always well aware of my phone number/email and I would drop by after school sometimes, just to check on things.

Far cry from the response in Detroit isn't it? DPS and Robert Bobb don't need volunteers to come teach the kids to read, they need to knock some parents heads together..not ALL parents, but many. It starts at home folks, it's not the teachers responsibility to teach the children morals or values or respect. It starts at home the minute the kid is born!!! From what I read, from what I've seen, there isn't much love in the homes, just fighting, drinking, drugging and neglect; there isn't any accountability. Parents don't seem to care if their kid has turned into a thug and runs the streets all night with a gang. I have listened to many mothers and aunts and grandmothers crying about their dead child on the news. "He's a good boy, never got into any trought that I know of", while in the meantime the kid has been a violent criminal.
Listen to Dr. Cosby folks...he's got it right. Get those baggy pants off of them, straighten up the caps, buy Keds instead of Jordans, or whatever they buy...forget the boom boxes...show them you love them and that's a start. Also, some tough love wouldn't hurt.

**English** · December-17-09, 02:07 AM

I'm not sure what we can do to force parents to be good parents. I'm in my eleventh year in education, and that one completely eludes me. Any suggestions?

**DetroitTeacher** · December-17-09, 05:58 AM

I also work with the Young People's Project [[it's a math literacy after school program that UM brings in). Google it, it's wonderful! We have many potlucks and family nights and the kids do bring their parents [[these are usually the good kids who are involved in everything). One of the aspects of the program is talking about community issues. The kids have decided that the issues that most face is child/parent relationships and how many parents are not involved. Amazingly enough, the kids would really like their parents to be MORE involved than they are. The kids speak of wanting the structure, wanting parents to be nosey [[but not too nosey), and wanting parents to be involved in their education. Parents aren't involved because the kids don't want them to be...the kids really do want the parental involvement.

It's really sad, though, because until the school violates the kid in some way [[taking a cell phone, suspending them for being in the hallways, setting fires, etc) we rarely see parents. Let us take the kid's cell phone and the parents are up at the school raising all sorts of hell. I think some kids do stuff to get in trouble just so that their parents will be forced to be involved [[however nagative that experience may be).

**sumas** · December-17-09, 06:53 AM

Detroit teacher, My husband and I discussed this at length. We will volunteer for the reading program.

I laughed a tad at your last post. How much is too much involvement. My grown kids tell me I was too over protective. No doubt they are right.

I let them play sports in high school and between the two of them I got billed for $4500 in round numbers for injuries to them, to help school spirit. Go figure!

I do look forward to making an impression on a young mind that reading is a very special experience. At the same time, I feel sad that we only want to deal with the very young. It saddens me to say that I am afraid to deal with the older kids.

If you have a special some one, let me know, we can always make an exception. We will do our best to help.

In the past we have worked with ADD kids. Smart kids who just can't get it together. Too much fun to see the esteem they get from finally getting an A on a school project. No, we did not do the work, they did. All we did was facilitate potencial.

Keep up your good work.

**Detwa** · December-17-09, 06:54 AM

I have to echo the sentiments of other suburban parents. I have one child left in school and not only are the conferences a literal "hit", but every other event at the school[[s) are also hugely popular. My kids and I joke that the people come rushing in like its "5:00 Free Crack Hour" [[from the Dave Chappelle skit, lol). Concerts, conferences, open house, fall or ice cream socials, the parking lots are always packed. What our school does is tie the conferences in with another event like a book fair or holiday shopping spree.

I have two very good friends who are teachers and it boggles my mind how they complain about parents not showing up because I'm just unfamiliar with that. When I grew up, all of my teachers knew my mom on a first name basis, and I have been the same type of presence in the schools of my own kids.

Oh, this is the Macomb School District and we've been in it for over 12 years and I give them nothing but stellar ratings.

andybsg · December-17-09, 07:57 AM

It's really sad, though, because until the school violates the kid in some way [[taking a cell phone, suspending them for being in the hallways, setting fires, etc) we rarely see parents. Let us take the kid's cell phone and the parents are up at the school raising all sorts of hell. I think some kids do stuff to get in trouble just so that their parents will be forced to be involved [[however nagative that experience may be).

My point exactly. If the a teacher, or dean, or principal decides to discipline a child then the entire school district needs to stand behind that person. When parents realize that the district will not back down then this bullshit will stop. You want to make better parents? How about you treat them like adults in these situations, which means telling them "no, your kid can't have his cell phone period". Do you really think parents will want to show up at school for an argument that they know they will lose? I doubt it. These are people looking for the path of least resistance in life.They are in reality just lazy. If it's easier and less embarrassing to tell your kid tough luck then that is what they will do. Right now, the kid causes them more grief than the school so they choose to fight with the school. Fairly simple really.

**DetroitFats** · December-17-09, 12:42 PM

I've been teaching in DPS for six years now, and I have no idea how to make parents get involved. For our Holiday Show [[concert and skits) last night, we had about 30 parents attend. Between the band and the drama department, there were over 150 students involved, so you can imagine how disappointing this was. We sent out flyers to every home, and the concert was free, but still it is very difficult to get parents to come out and see their kids perform. Baffling and sad.
However, I could deal with the lack of involvement if the parents would only insist that their children attend school every day. My biggest problem is that most of my students truly believe that missing one, two or even three days a week is not a big deal. Every DPS teacher I know feels that lack of attendance is the biggest hurdle we face. Unless and until DPS institutes an attendance policy, I don't see this changing any time soon.

Buy American · December-17-09, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitFats

I've been teaching in DPS for six years now, and I have no idea how to make parents get involved. For our Holiday Show [[concert and skits) last night, we had about 30 parents attend. Between the band and the drama department, there were over 150 students involved, so you can imagine how disappointing this was. We sent out flyers to every home, and the concert was free, but still it is very difficult to get parents to come out and see their kids perform. Baffling and sad.
However, I could deal with the lack of involvement if the parents would only insist that their children attend school every day. My biggest problem is that most of my students truly believe that missing one, two or even three days a week is not a big deal. Every DPS teacher I know feels that lack of attendance is the biggest hurdle we face. Unless and until DPS institutes an attendance policy, I don't see this changing any time soon.

Isn't there an attendance policy in effect now? I remember years ago there was a truant officer who would go to the homes of kids that didn't show up for school. Parents should be made responsible for their kids while they are of age. Threatened jail time, fines...whatever it takes to get them involved should be implemented in Detroit. Right now, Detroit sounds like a third world country.