Senate passes smoking ban; casino floors but not restos exempt

[Fury13]

Every piece of smoking ban legislation I've seen couches the ban in language so as to "protect the health of employees". This is total crap. I've worked in restaurants where 90% of the employees smoked.

Maybe now restaurants will begin to attract more people who are non-smokers as employees. There's a reason why non-smokers haven't gravitated to restaurant/bar work in the past.

Remember, smokers are only 20 percent of the population overall, and that number is falling.

On the other hand, we'll all continue to get socked paying for preventable long-term health care costs for fat fucks who choose to eat shitty food and not exercise.

I see. You dislike fat people more than you dislike smokers. You're morally superior to fat people because you exercise.

[Fury13]

...as soon as a smoking ban passes, people start bitching about smokers hanging out by the door of the bar or restaurant. What do you do then?

The law will require smokers to be a specified distance from the entrance, I'm sure. That's the way it is in other states that have enacted such laws.

So, if they're too close to the doorway while smoking, they'll get fined. Simple.

[Gary]

I'm a smoker, but the ban won't impact my life at all. I don't patronize the casinos and I already request non-smoking restaurant seating and hotel rooms. As for bars, I don't spend much time in them anymore anyway, so no big deal there either. I can't smoke at work, and I don't allow anyone to smoke in my house [[including me) except in the basement rec room.

Smoking ban or no, people who really want to smoke won't be deterred.

[jbd441]

As a smoker, I'm a little peeved, but that's the way it goes.

Can we now ban these obnoxious things?

* People who douse themselves with musk cologne or flowery perfumes? Blech. These smells make me sick!

* People talking on cell phones in restaurants. Why should I be distracted from my dinner because they have to talk to somebody at their table?

DN, I'm with you. Being an ex-smoker smells are even more obnoxious now. Try sitting next to a woman in a restaurant who smells like they emptied a can of bathroom air freshener on themselves or men who think that extra splot of cologne will cover up the fact they didn't bathe that morning.
Don't get me started on cell phones! 10 minutes in line at the USPS and you know all about the family of the person standing next to you.

[GPCharles]

Read the Act - there is no penalty for violation levied on the establishment, only the smoker. The establishment must post "NO SMOKING" signs, but they are not required to force compliance.

[ggores]

Damned smokers, can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em, if you catch my - ahem - drift.

[Fury13]

DN, I'm with you. Being an ex-smoker smells are even more obnoxious now. Try sitting next to a woman in a restaurant who smells like they emptied a can of bathroom air freshener on themselves or men who think that extra splot of cologne will cover up the fact they didn't bathe that morning.
Don't get me started on cell phones! 10 minutes in line at the USPS and you know all about the family of the person standing next to you.

Ahh, for issues like these, we need laws mandating civility and social graces...

[ghettopalmetto]

I see. You dislike fat people more than you dislike smokers. You're morally superior to fat people because you exercise.

My opinion has nothing to do with moral superiority. But if we're going to legislate health and personal choices, why stop at smoking?

[econ expat]

This thread is a much more fun 'read' than city vs. suburbs

The handles may be anonymous, but soon we can guess who moans when the Starbucks closes, wears the bicycle helmets, drinks the bottled water from those plastic bottles that go to landfills, etc.Line up for them swine flu vaccines, it killed some people this year.Put on a space suit before you go in that building, it has asbestos...
It seems the most successful ex-smokers are also the most annoying- very vocal about avoiding smoke and smokers.And THEY were able to quit, why not the rest of the world?

Sad, the non smoking laws are mandating courtesy, disguised as a public health issue.

[screamingfit]

I've visited several bars in California and Chicago where I could smoke. They had a "don't give a crap" attitude as the majority of their patrons are smokers. Now, granted -- these weren't charming establishments where you would go out for a fun time with a date [[well, depends on you, I guess) -- these are old watering holes where you went to get shit-faced and hang out. Maybe get in or avoid a scrap or two.

Quizzing the bartender at the first bar I had happened into where I was shocked to see people smoking, he said that they would be out of business if they instituted the ban. They tried it at the beginning and lost most of their patrons. When asked if they worried about getting ticketed or whatever, he said that the police knew and they didn't care, either. I can only assume either money was exchanged or there were "gentleman's agreements" in place for the privilege.

These are the types of places that will suffer with the ban. Not your trendy, crap places in Royal Oak or your fancy bars in the city -- it's going to be the small, rough and tumble neighborhood places. Though, knowing how crack the city law and code enforcement folk are, I'm going to predict they aren't even going to get their shit together enough to actually enforce anything.

And for those touting how healthy they are by running a 1000 miles a week or whatever, there is no long-term, peer reviewed, conclusive scientific evidence that exercise is of benefit to you. Just saying -- climb down off your horse.

[Diehard]

This thread is a much more fun 'read' than city vs. suburbs

The handles may be anonymous, but soon we can guess who moans when the Starbucks closes, wears the bicycle helmets, drinks the bottled water from those plastic bottles that go to landfills, etc.Line up for them swine flu vaccines, it killed some people this year.Put on a space suit before you go in that building, it has asbestos...
It seems the most successful ex-smokers are also the most annoying- very vocal about avoiding smoke and smokers.And THEY were able to quit, why not the rest of the world?

Sad, the non smoking laws are mandating courtesy, disguised as a public health issue.

Yes, it's kind of like the thread on the non-Detroit side that went like:
1st post: Republican
2nd: Democrat
3rd: REPUBLICAN!!!!
4th: *sigh* Democrat

only this one is:
1st: Non smoker!! Yay!
2nd: Smoker! Boo!
3rd: reasonable smoker
4th: reasonable nonsmoker
5th: SMOKER!!! ANGRY SMOKER!!!

etc.

[R8RBOB]

This thread is a much more fun 'read' than city vs. suburbs

The handles may be anonymous, but soon we can guess who moans when the Starbucks closes, wears the bicycle helmets, drinks the bottled water from those plastic bottles that go to landfills, etc.Line up for them swine flu vaccines, it killed some people this year.Put on a space suit before you go in that building, it has asbestos...
It seems the most successful ex-smokers are also the most annoying- very vocal about avoiding smoke and smokers.And THEY were able to quit, why not the rest of the world?

Sad, the non smoking laws are mandating courtesy, disguised as a public health issue.

As a ex-smoker, I have to say this to you: Don't hate me because I don't want to suck up your smoke in my lungs. To sum it up: non-smokers wanted a ban and there are more non-smokers than there are smokers. If there were more smokers than non-smokers in the population then there would be no ban smoking in bars and restaurants. Sure they used the sham of public health as a factor but the people supported a ban and they got it.

[pffft]

Love the conspiracy theory about the public health issue being a "smokescreen" ...that this 10 year struggle was all about not liking the smell of something.

Riiiight.

When smoking was allowed in my workplace, I used to get bronchitis for a minimum of two weeks every winter. That's a given if you are allergic to nicotine, as many of us are. Same thing happens now if I go to bars or restaurants very often.

And I love this image of smokers as slim, healthy exercisers...wow. Let's get the AMA on this...

[R8RBOB]

Love the conspiracy theory about the public health issue being a "smokescreen" ...that this 10 year struggle was all about not liking the smell of something.

Riiiight.

When smoking was allowed in my workplace, I used to get bronchitis for a minimum of two weeks every winter. That's a given if you are allergic to nicotine, as many of us are. Same thing happens now if I go to bars or restaurants very often.

And I love this image of smokers as slim, healthy exercisers...wow. Let's get the AMA on this...

I call the public health issue a sham for only one reason: exemption. If the lawmakers was so concern for the employees like the blackjack dealers at the casinos then the bill that was passed yesterday would had NO EXEMPTIONS. Because they placed exemptions to get the bill passed they basically said they was more concerned about the customer not the employee.

[pffft]

Yeah and we could go another 10 years without any protection at all...that was the intent of the "lawmakers" who raised objections to any exemptions.

[Bearinabox]

There is. They're called cigar bars and tobacco specialty stores.

Apparently existing cigar bars will be grandfathered in, but no new ones will be allowed to open. I don't smoke, don't object to other people smoking, and really couldn't care less about this ban one way or the other, but I'm not sure I get the point of clamping down on cigar bars and the like. Seems like anybody who had a problem with the smoke wouldn't be hanging out there in the first place.

[Diehard]

I thought I'd gotten all the "red herrings" out of the way in post #20, but looks like I missed a few doozies. Let's begin...

as soon as a smoking ban passes, people start bitching about smokers hanging out by the door of the bar or restaurant.

Do people complain now about smokers in front of office buildings? No, they don't. The smoke flies away and it's not a problem. In nice weather, the sidewalk has become the new "water cooler," with non-smokers and smokers socializing together.

The other is that no one seems to think a ban on high-emission vehicles is necessary. I mean, why don't we just ban SUVs outright? I'm tired of having to breathe the exhaust from these self-righteous pricks. Who do they think they are?

Are you kidding? There are emission regulations out the wazoo for cars these days. Car emissions have been getting cleaner for years, and there IS a huge environmental movement against SUVs. Have you not been paying attention?
That said, this is a huge, stupid red herring. Cars are not the same thing as cigarettes. Transportation is a necessity, and until all cars run on hydrogen or electricity [[which is on the way), there will be exhaust. And who drives their car into an enclosed restaurant and lets it sit there idling next to them? Exhaust, and smoke, need to stay outdoors.

For that matter, why not outlaw incinerators? Or factories? Or manure ponds? All of these are far more acute than smoking, since they negatively impact the same people, day-in and day-out on a permanent basis.

Again, a silly red herring. These are not the same thing as cigarettes. Incinerators and factories serve a purpose, and they DO have strict pollution regulations to meet. [[Manure ponds? WTF is a manure pond, and do you know anyone who works at one?)

My point is, there are a lot of things in this world that aren't healthy. You're not going to be able to control them all. Get a helmet and deal with it.

True dat. We're doing what we can. Eat your veggies.

[stinkbug]

What the advocates of "personal freedom" are overlooking is that wearing too much perfume to a restaurant doesn't physically harm others around you. Farting or eating disgusting food doesn't harm anyone but you. Smoking does.

Furthermore...who's right to smoke is being taken away? You can smoke in your own funky-ass fucked-up-smelling house. I support your right to be gross and kill yourself. Just don't take innocent bystanders down with you.

It's also pretty disgusting...people are being denied universal human rights around the world and people are bitching about smoking in bars like they're being oppressed. How come none of you are bitching about the anti-gay bill flying through Parliament in Uganda?

[econ expat]

As a ex-smoker, I have to say this to you: Don't hate me because I don't want to suck up your smoke in my lungs. To sum it up: non-smokers wanted a ban and there are more non-smokers than there are smokers. If there were more smokers than non-smokers in the population then there would be no ban smoking in bars and restaurants. Sure they used the sham of public health as a factor but the people supported a ban and they got it.

You correctly labeled yourself as an ex-smoker. Many of us who have smoked are ex-smokers, NOT non-smokers. Wish I could consider myself a non-smoker, many of the non smokers are much more polite, or less adamant about the smoking bans.Whereas alot of ex smokers "used to smoke", but it is no longer fashionable, tsk tsk to those who still smoke. [[If only all of us could follow fashion and trends and quit just like that.Let's name a special day. Oh wait, that's been done for many years.)

Been a long time since my last smoke, I'm a little grumpy, but I don't hate you!

[Diehard]

I call the public health issue a sham for only one reason: exemption. If the lawmakers was so concern for the employees like the blackjack dealers at the casinos then the bill that was passed yesterday would had NO EXEMPTIONS. Because they placed exemptions to get the bill passed they basically said they was more concerned about the customer not the employee.

Not debating the fairness of it, but every casino I've been to has serious turbo-charged state-of-the-art ventilation systems. I guess when you build a zillion-dollar building from the ground up and you're pulling in a million a day and don't want anything to drive your customers away, you can do that. They definitely have an advantage over, say, a 100-year-old building in Hamtramck.

[R8RBOB]

Not debating the fairness of it, but every casino I've been to has serious turbo-charged state-of-the-art ventilation systems. I guess when you build a zillion-dollar building from the ground up and you're pulling in a million a day and don't want anything to drive your customers away, you can do that. They definitely have an advantage over, say, a 100-year-old building in Hamtramck.

I don't recall noticing those state-of-the-art ventilation systems as I am losing my money on the blackjack table at MGM and Greektown. In fact, I have to stand up to play because sitting down allows me to suck up the smoke that I stopped sucking up seven years ago.

[Diehard]

I don't recall noticing those state-of-the-art ventilation systems as I am losing my money on the blackjack table at MGM and Greektown. In fact, I have to stand up to play because sitting down allows me to suck up the smoke that I stopped sucking up seven years ago.

Come to think of it, I only play slots and I must be subconsciously picking the machines farthest away from the smoking folks. I see your point.

[jcole]

The casinos in Detroit have the worst ventilation of any casino I've ever been in. Motor City is still the old bread factory so there's nothing new there. I have yet to find the no smoking sections at MGM and whenever I go there I smell like I've been rolling in burnt leaves. I haven't been to Greektown in years, but last time I was there it was the best of the three.

[gencinjay]

Don't get me started on cell phones! 10 minutes in line at the USPS and you know all about the family of the person standing next to you.

I always find these types of comments amusing. People hate other people talking on cell phones nearby them. I can understand if you're waiting for that person to get off the phone to complete something, but if it's just the fact that they are next to you, you're ridiculous. Two people talking next to you are fine but a one sided conversation is bad? That just means you're nosy and want to hear the other side of the conversation too.

[Danny]

Smoking ban inside public buildings, silly law but its for the sake of the non-smokers. You can thank the republicans in the Michigan Senate seat for making it possible. If you all don't like what our Michigan Republican Senate is doing than vote them all out next year.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Thank you for not smoking for Neda Soltani's sake.