Arts, Beats & Eats is moving to Royal Oak

**eno** · December-09-09, 09:28 PM

I've never been to an ABE's event. I found plenty to do between the jazz fest in Hart Plaza or the Labor Day Fest in Hamtramck. Now that it's moved to RO, there's a better chance I might go but it depends upon who's playing. RO has become a bit pricey.

**pffft** · December-10-09, 12:18 AM

Upset? Hardly, just incredulous that anyone would pay $3 for a bunch of cover bands and very lame crafts.

Crafts at the jazz festival -- are you serious? The booths at the jazz festival predominantly have to do with music, some are crafts, but at least nobody charges you to walk by and ignore them.

"The only difference is the music." Yes, huge difference though -- world class musicians, both from around the world, and Detroit...and it's free. Hello?
Have to hand it to Jon Witz, charging people for a street fair...brilliant.

**NoHeartAnthony** · December-10-09, 01:30 AM

I didn't know ABE was a jazz fest. I don't know why that comparison was made.

**dtowncitylover** · December-10-09, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by NoHeartAnthony

I didn't know ABE was a jazz fest. I don't know why that comparison was made.

Actually I did quite the opposite. ABE and Jazz Fest have different types of music, yes, but when it comes to food and art booths they're very much the same. But for the most part one goes to either of these events for the music.

**One4Detroit** · December-10-09, 12:23 PM

3$??!?!?!? I hope my accountant can figure out a way to fit that in my budget....

**EastsideAl** · December-10-09, 01:41 AM

Never been to this thing, nor do I really have any real desire to go from the the sounds of it. But then I always spend my Labor Day weekends at the jazz festival, which is one of the great events we have in this area, and truly one of the best free music festivals in the country. But it is a real shame that Pontiac, a city that I'm sure could really use this festival, would lose it to a place like Royal Oak that doesn't need it anywhere near as much.

**Fury13** · December-10-09, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Never been to this thing, nor do I really have any real desire to go from the the sounds of it. But then I always spend my Labor Day weekends at the jazz festival, which is one of the great events we have in this area, and truly one of the best free music festivals in the country. But it is a real shame that Pontiac, a city that I'm sure could really use this festival, would lose it to a place like Royal Oak that doesn't need it anywhere near as much.

CityFest is the best of the three events. It offers a wide variety of music... not just "cover bands." ABE's problem is with the entertainment... as has been alluded to, it's usually fairly lame. They need someone new to book the bands and get away from the "usual suspects" we see year after year. I did see Marshall Crenshaw one year at ABE, though, and that was great.

As for the Jazz Fest, I like it. It's fun. There are a lot of non-music-related booths I could do without [[shea butter, scarves, junky sunglasses), but it is a nice free show. The only problem with the Jazz Fest is... well, it's... jazz.

**gnome** · December-11-09, 09:53 AM

JL- Don't sweat it, certain people around here are so blinded by their own intractable viewpoints that when faced with reality will retreat to the well worn comforts of hateration.

It doesn't have to make sense because it makes sense to them. Old and worn concepts like LB is the Devil, that anything north of 8 mile is soulless ... . It's known as the hipster's lament and is fueled by an unhealthy misreading of history, culture and reality.

Bearinabox · December-11-09, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

JL- Don't sweat it, certain people around here are so blinded by their own intractable viewpoints that when faced with reality will retreat to the well worn comforts of hateration.

It doesn't have to make sense because it makes sense to them. Old and worn concepts like LB is the Devil, that anything north of 8 mile is soulless ... . It's known as the hipster's lament and is fueled by an unhealthy misreading of history, culture and reality.

I'm pretty sure none of those arguments apply to the assertion that Pontiac is a better venue than Royal Oak for ABE because there is more parking. I doubt there is as much overlap between the anti-parking hipsters and the people who liked ABE better in Pontiac as you and JL seem to think. Hell, downtown RO is the biggest hipster magnet around, and the last time I saw a hipster in Pontiac was when the Decemberists played Clutch Cargo's.

Brooks is still the devil, though.

**Fury13** · December-11-09, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

Hell, downtown RO is the biggest hipster magnet around...

Don't kid yourself... there are plenty of hipster magnets in Detroit proper. Or magnets for "anti-hipsters" who are really hipsters of another sort and indulge in reverse elitism.

Bearinabox · December-11-09, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Fury13

Don't kid yourself... there are plenty of hipster magnets in Detroit proper. Or magnets for "anti-hipsters" who are really hipsters of another sort and indulge in reverse elitism.

Notice I didn't say Royal Oak was the only hipster magnet around.

**hybridy** · December-11-09, 02:24 PM

tight jeans and pbrs were commonplace out on the farm long before hipsters were born-i don't get it

**casscorridor** · December-12-09, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

Notice I didn't say Royal Oak was the only hipster magnet around.

i dont think it's the only or the biggest. sure, it has American Apparel, but thats cos its a more viable place for a store like that, statistically, than in a Detroit district. I'd say places like North Cass, Eastern Market, Woodbridge and Corktown have more hipsters... even Hamtramck.

Also, I wouldnt call RO a "bustling a vibrant city"... first off, thats only the few square block downtown, not really a "city" if u ask me. Most of RO is suburban. But Royal Oak thinks it's a city, hense why i call it Royal Joke/Royal Hoax

**Danny** · August-17-10, 11:17 AM

Arts, Beats and Eats, more like Arts, Beats, Eats and FIREARMS!

The Royal Oak City Council had approved the ordinance to have people carry licensed firearms at the festival. That will put fear into to most families, kids, friends and individuals. Therefore I'M NOT GOING!

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET!

Becuase guns don't kill people, people do.

Neda, I miss you so.

**Fury13** · December-11-09, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Old and worn concepts like LB is the Devil, that anything north of 8 mile is soulless ... . It's known as the hipster's lament and is fueled by an unhealthy misreading of history, culture and reality.

That's good, quite good.

**gnome** · December-11-09, 10:31 AM

Pontiac's losing the ABE is the same reason they got snookered on the Silverdome deal. It is the Golden Ticket concept. The idea that what they are holding is of immense value because it was of value ages ago. Pontiac walked from a $20 million dollar plan a couple of years ago for their Silverdome claiming it wasn't good enough and blaming the developer for this or that. It is the same mindset that has kept The Strand in fuckland for two decades and that chased out the burgeoning arts community from downtown.

The ABE was Pontiac's to lose, and they did everything they could to strangle a golden goose. To pour the hateration on RO is just a denial that Pontiac is no longer Sponge Worthy.

Bearinabox · December-11-09, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Pontiac's losing the ABE is the same reason they got snookered on the Silverdome deal. It is the Golden Ticket concept. The idea that what they are holding is of immense value because it was of value ages ago. Pontiac walked from a $20 million dollar plan a couple of years ago for their Silverdome claiming it wasn't good enough and blaming the developer for this or that. It is the same mindset that has kept The Strand in fuckland for two decades and that chased out the burgeoning arts community from downtown.

The ABE was Pontiac's to lose, and they did everything they could to strangle a golden goose. To pour the hateration on RO is just a denial that Pontiac is no longer Sponge Worthy.

I agree with this.

**Todd_Scott** · December-12-09, 11:41 AM

I've lived in Royal Oak for about 30 years now and in my view it is pretty lame and mostly soulless. Moving Arts, Beats, and Creeps away from the northern suburbs probably means there will fewer of the latter.

**MotownSpartan** · December-12-09, 02:33 PM

This may be an example of urban sprawl slowing or reversing. This festival is moving from an outer city to an inner ring suburb closer to the region's center.

Stosh · December-12-09, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

This may be an example of urban sprawl slowing or reversing. This festival is moving from an outer city to an inner ring suburb closer to the region's center.

I'll believe that when L Brooks moves the county seat to RO or environs.

**oldredfordette** · December-12-09, 03:22 PM

How many blocks of downtown does Detroit have? The rest is neighborhoods. Don't be a snob. Or so silly.

**gnome** · December-12-09, 10:30 PM

I never understand how some people even consider Detroit to be anything other than a large collection of suburban-style neighborhoods. Front yard, back yard and house in-between. That is not an urban environment. Detroit does have a small handful of areas that have the same urban style housing density that Chicago or New York has ... places like the southern end of Palmer Park, a block or two on the Indian Village fringe, near Wayne State and downtown ... maybe a one or two others ... but look at Rosedale Park, the Airport Sub, Berry sub, Indian Village, Green Acres, Sherwood Forrest ... all single family homes with a couple of duplexes here and there. Just like Grosse Pointe Park, Birmingham, RO and Trenton.

To claim that Detroit has the kind of vast swaths of housing stock that typifies places like Chicago's Wicker Park, Rodgers Park, Boys Town, Lincoln Park ... strains credulity. I love Detroit but I ain't buying anyone's claim that the majority of its housing is urban.

That is why it is a head scratcher when dipshits spew their urban palming 101 textbook hooey that a place like RO isn't a "city" because it has lawns. Get real. One of detroit's previous claims to fame was that it had more single family houses than anywhere in America. It served as proof that the Union movement and Union wages built a solid middle class. Where a sheet metal stamper could own his own home. Raise his kids, grow some tomatoes and live in peace.

That's Detroit. That is what it promised and you see that promise in the tattered remains of those once proud neighborhoods. Neighborhoods, not superblocks like on Roosevelt Island in NYC.

Moreover to piss on RO is to piss on the dream of owning your own place and having a place to raise your kids and your tomatoes. RO or Ferndale or Birmingham didn't spring to reality in the fall of 1967. Those places where almost entirely built out by 1960, Ferndale [[ originally called UrbanRest) by 1940. And they were built using the exact same plan that Detroit used: front yard, back yard and a house in-between.

I ain't no RO fan, but for a vibrant vibe ... I'll stack RO against Greek 1/2 block any day of the week.

The reality is that ABE exists because not everyone in the world is jazz fan and not everyone loves the drama that comes with going to Detroit. Detroit takes work to love. You have to blind yourself to all of its shittyness or you leave. The garrish paint jobs on party stores, the tagging, the bums, the trash, the store signage that SCREAMS AND SCREAMS AND SCREAMS. It is obnoxious.

Go to Birmingham and all of their benches, sign posts, newspaper boxes, parking meters ... everything is painted green. Nothing clashes, it is harmonious; store signage can't be too large, can't flash, ... the result is that it is easy to chill in that town. You want to park and shop? You can park for FREE for the first two hours in one of the parking decks, same for RO. That makes life easy. In Detroit you're at the mercy of parking meter sharks and $3.00 minimums in the decks.

jeeze

Stosh · December-12-09, 10:38 PM

Thanks for that. Common sense thinking, finally.

**Fury13** · December-12-09, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I never understand how some people even consider Detroit to be anything other than a large collection of suburban-style neighborhoods. Front yard, back yard and house in-between. That is not an urban environment. Detroit does have a small handful of areas that have the same urban style housing density that Chicago or New York has ... places like the southern end of Palmer Park, a block or two on the Indian Village fringe, near Wayne State and downtown ... maybe a one or two others ... but look at Rosedale Park, the Airport Sub, Berry sub, Indian Village, Green Acres, Sherwood Forrest ... all single family homes with a couple of duplexes here and there. Just like Grosse Pointe Park, Birmingham, RO and Trenton.

To claim that Detroit has the kind of vast swaths of housing stock that typifies places like Chicago's Wicker Park, Rodgers Park, Boys Town, Lincoln Park ... strains credulity. I love Detroit but I ain't buying anyone's claim that the majority of its housing is urban.

That is why it is a head scratcher when dipshits spew their urban palming 101 textbook hooey that a place like RO isn't a "city" because it has lawns. Get real. One of detroit's previous claims to fame was that it had more single family houses than anywhere in America. It served as proof that the Union movement and Union wages built a solid middle class. Where a sheet metal stamper could own his own home. Raise his kids, grow some tomatoes and live in peace.

That's Detroit. That is what it promised and you see that promise in the tattered remains of those once proud neighborhoods. Neighborhoods, not superblocks like on Roosevelt Island in NYC.

Moreover to piss on RO is to piss on the dream of owning your own place and having a place to raise your kids and your tomatoes. RO or Ferndale or Birmingham didn't spring to reality in the fall of 1967. Those places where almost entirely built out by 1960, Ferndale [[ originally called UrbanRest) by 1940. And they were built using the exact same plan that Detroit used: front yard, back yard and a house in-between.

I ain't no RO fan, but for a vibrant vibe ... I'll stack RO against Greek 1/2 block any day of the week.

The reality is that ABE exists because not everyone in the world is jazz fan and not everyone loves the drama that comes with going to Detroit. Detroit takes work to love. You have to blind yourself to all of its shittyness or you leave. The garrish paint jobs on party stores, the tagging, the bums, the trash, the store signage that SCREAMS AND SCREAMS AND SCREAMS. It is obnoxious.

Go to Birmingham and all of their benches, sign posts, newspaper boxes, parking meters ... everything is painted green. Nothing clashes, it is harmonious; store signage can't be too large, can't flash, ... the result is that it is easy to chill in that town. You want to park and shop? You can park for FREE for the first two hours in one of the parking decks, same for RO. That makes life easy. In Detroit you're at the mercy of parking meter sharks and $3.00 minimums in the decks.

jeeze

That is one of the best posts I've read on this forum in a long time.

**dtowncitylover** · December-13-09, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

I never understand how some people even consider Detroit to be anything other than a large collection of suburban-style neighborhoods. Front yard, back yard and house in-between. That is not an urban environment. Detroit does have a small handful of areas that have the same urban style housing density that Chicago or New York has ... places like the southern end of Palmer Park, a block or two on the Indian Village fringe, near Wayne State and downtown ... maybe a one or two others ... but look at Rosedale Park, the Airport Sub, Berry sub, Indian Village, Green Acres, Sherwood Forrest ... all single family homes with a couple of duplexes here and there. Just like Grosse Pointe Park, Birmingham, RO and Trenton.

To claim that Detroit has the kind of vast swaths of housing stock that typifies places like Chicago's Wicker Park, Rodgers Park, Boys Town, Lincoln Park ... strains credulity. I love Detroit but I ain't buying anyone's claim that the majority of its housing is urban.

That is why it is a head scratcher when dipshits spew their urban palming 101 textbook hooey that a place like RO isn't a "city" because it has lawns. Get real. One of detroit's previous claims to fame was that it had more single family houses than anywhere in America. It served as proof that the Union movement and Union wages built a solid middle class. Where a sheet metal stamper could own his own home. Raise his kids, grow some tomatoes and live in peace.

That's Detroit. That is what it promised and you see that promise in the tattered remains of those once proud neighborhoods. Neighborhoods, not superblocks like on Roosevelt Island in NYC.

Moreover to piss on RO is to piss on the dream of owning your own place and having a place to raise your kids and your tomatoes. RO or Ferndale or Birmingham didn't spring to reality in the fall of 1967. Those places where almost entirely built out by 1960, Ferndale [[ originally called UrbanRest) by 1940. And they were built using the exact same plan that Detroit used: front yard, back yard and a house in-between.

I ain't no RO fan, but for a vibrant vibe ... I'll stack RO against Greek 1/2 block any day of the week.

The reality is that ABE exists because not everyone in the world is jazz fan and not everyone loves the drama that comes with going to Detroit. Detroit takes work to love. You have to blind yourself to all of its shittyness or you leave. The garrish paint jobs on party stores, the tagging, the bums, the trash, the store signage that SCREAMS AND SCREAMS AND SCREAMS. It is obnoxious.

Go to Birmingham and all of their benches, sign posts, newspaper boxes, parking meters ... everything is painted green. Nothing clashes, it is harmonious; store signage can't be too large, can't flash, ... the result is that it is easy to chill in that town. You want to park and shop? You can park for FREE for the first two hours in one of the parking decks, same for RO. That makes life easy. In Detroit you're at the mercy of parking meter sharks and $3.00 minimums in the decks.

jeeze

*standing ovation*

And of course, LA is even more suburban-esque than Detroit.